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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Just looked it up and the Bulls were demanding Crowder and Smart or Bradley. If I'm the Celtics (trying to make the Finals) I don't make that trade either.

Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?

The simplest explanation is the best. They just don't have any clue what they are doing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:01 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?

The simplest explanation is the best. They just don't have any clue what they are doing.


yup. they're morons

why are they infatuated with Cameron fucking Payne ? see above


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:03 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?

The simplest explanation is the best. They just don't have any clue what they are doing.


That's probably true. Looking through the Google machine it sounds like they could have gotten both of the Nets picks for Butler. Will any of these players the Bulls got in return be better than the top 3 picks? Highly unlikely. Gar Forman is an idiot. Paxson was pushing for a rebuild and he was trying to be the 7th seed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:05 pm 
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still keep forgetting about selling the 2nd round pick for cash too. unbelievable


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:07 pm 
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still keep forgetting about selling the 2nd round pick for cash too. unbelievable


It's kinda minor considering how they could have gotten multiple potential stars in return for Butler in February but are now hoping they got multiple starting players in return.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:09 pm 
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yea i realize it's minor, its not likely to pan out, but it's just the principle of it


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Also had to laugh hearing Paxson talk about how important it is to get picks after trading one and selling the other.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Also had to laugh hearing Paxson talk about how important it is to get picks after trading one and selling the other.


Agreed! I still can't believe they gave a pick to the Wolves.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
still keep forgetting about selling the 2nd round pick for cash too. unbelievable

The only way they could fuck this up more is by refusing to buyout Wade and Rondo going forward. That would actually be kind of hilarious.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:37 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Bagels wrote:
still keep forgetting about selling the 2nd round pick for cash too. unbelievable

The only way they could fuck this up more is by refusing to buyout Wade and Rondo going forward. That would actually be kind of hilarious.


:lol: yea that would be great.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Just looked it up and the Bulls were demanding Crowder and Smart or Bradley. If I'm the Celtics (trying to make the Finals) I don't make that trade either.

Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?


Butler has been on the block for a year.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:01 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
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yea but you don't know if he's going to be a role player or not. Like I said you're being closed minded about it.

As far as the rebounding, I disagree that you can't get better at it. But, if this guy can provide the offense he's capable of, rebounding would just be a bonus. As long as he can learn to defend and has great offense, I don't think it matters if he doesn't rebound well. I assume we'll have other people for that.

I disagree that I'm being close minded about it. He looks EXACTLY like a role player. We'll see how he turns out. He's much more likely to be Channing Frye than Dirk or Porzingis.

Your comments relating to his defense just seem like blind optimism, IMO. He looks horrendous on that side of the ball, and that's before even playing against pros.


Probably as bad as Jokic's but we will see.

Here are Jokic's per 100 possession stats from last season:

29.3 PPG, 17.2 RPG, 8.6 APG, 26.4 PER

Keep comparing this Markkanen kid to him though. It's gonna be great bumping this as we go



Nice rhetorical sleight of hand move. I'm talking about his non existent defense.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Wow, is there a board consensus on this trade being dumb for the Bulls (I put that qualifier in for Bagels - I know he's happy)? First time I can remember the board being on the same side of a particular transaction.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:04 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Wow, is there a board consensus on this trade being dumb for the Bulls (I put that qualifier in for Bagels - I know he's happy)? First time I can remember the board being on the same side of a particular transaction.

RFDC was looking for a glimmer of hope. I'd say this is it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:05 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:

yea but you don't know if he's going to be a role player or not. Like I said you're being closed minded about it.

As far as the rebounding, I disagree that you can't get better at it. But, if this guy can provide the offense he's capable of, rebounding would just be a bonus. As long as he can learn to defend and has great offense, I don't think it matters if he doesn't rebound well. I assume we'll have other people for that.

I disagree that I'm being close minded about it. He looks EXACTLY like a role player. We'll see how he turns out. He's much more likely to be Channing Frye than Dirk or Porzingis.

Your comments relating to his defense just seem like blind optimism, IMO. He looks horrendous on that side of the ball, and that's before even playing against pros.


Probably as bad as Jokic's but we will see.

Here are Jokic's per 100 possession stats from last season:

29.3 PPG, 17.2 RPG, 8.6 APG, 26.4 PER

Keep comparing this Markkanen kid to him though. It's gonna be great bumping this as we go



Nice rhetorical sleight of hand move. I'm talking about his non existent defense.

If you are a big man who can't play defense you need to be a great rebounder and have a superb offensive game. Jokic checks both of those boxes. Markkanen doesn't.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:06 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Wow, is there a board consensus on this trade being dumb for the Bulls (I put that qualifier in for Bagels - I know he's happy)? First time I can remember the board being on the same side of a particular transaction.

RFDC was looking for a glimmer of hope. I'd say this is it.


You talking about me? I think the trade is dumb...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:07 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Wow, is there a board consensus on this trade being dumb for the Bulls (I put that qualifier in for Bagels - I know he's happy)? First time I can remember the board being on the same side of a particular transaction.

RFDC was looking for a glimmer of hope. I'd say this is it.


You talking about me? I think the trade is dumb...

Nevermind. Poor attempt at a joke.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:54 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Just looked it up and the Bulls were demanding Crowder and Smart or Bradley. If I'm the Celtics (trying to make the Finals) I don't make that trade either.

Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?


Butler has been on the block for a year.


He wasn't really on the block though. They would only trade him if you gave up every asset. How dumb was it to demand Crowder in return from Boston?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Just looked it up and the Bulls were demanding Crowder and Smart or Bradley. If I'm the Celtics (trying to make the Finals) I don't make that trade either.

Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?


Butler has been on the block for a year.


He wasn't really on the block though. They would only trade him if you gave up every asset. How dumb was it to demand Crowder in return from Boston?


It came down to the picks. Boston never was going to give up the pick and it's not like we just found out yesterday that Hayward was going to be available. Everyone knew his contract status.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:29 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Just looked it up and the Bulls were demanding Crowder and Smart or Bradley. If I'm the Celtics (trying to make the Finals) I don't make that trade either.

Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?


Butler has been on the block for a year.


He wasn't really on the block though. They would only trade him if you gave up every asset. How dumb was it to demand Crowder in return from Boston?


It came down to the picks. Boston never was going to give up the pick and it's not like we just found out yesterday that Hayward was going to be available. Everyone knew his contract status.

Most reports contradict this. MANY reporters have said the picks were on the table but the Bulls wanted players instead.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:35 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Just looked it up and the Bulls were demanding Crowder and Smart or Bradley. If I'm the Celtics (trying to make the Finals) I don't make that trade either.

Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?


Butler has been on the block for a year.


He wasn't really on the block though. They would only trade him if you gave up every asset. How dumb was it to demand Crowder in return from Boston?


It came down to the picks. Boston never was going to give up the pick and it's not like we just found out yesterday that Hayward was going to be available. Everyone knew his contract status.

Most reports contradict this. MANY reporters have said the picks were on the table but the Bulls wanted players instead.



Many more have said the opposite.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:39 pm 
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Why would a Boston team that was dangling the picks in front of everyone prefer to give up players that could help them go to the Finals for Butler?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:45 pm 
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that really makes the most sense.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Why would a Boston team that was dangling the picks in front of everyone prefer to give up players that could help them go to the Finals for Butler?



One of the guys plays Butler's position thus he would not have seen much time anyway. The narrative was that Butler wasn't enough to beat Cleveland and they were right. Ainge has been conservative when its been about those picks. If he snares Hayward to go along with Tatum then he has something to get at Cleveland with. Much better play than trading for Butler and he can still move his surplus of swingmen to get guys. He is in the proverbial catbird seat right about now.

Ainge hasn't been dangling those picks either. That's false.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:48 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Just looked it up and the Bulls were demanding Crowder and Smart or Bradley. If I'm the Celtics (trying to make the Finals) I don't make that trade either.

Why didn't the Bulls want to trade Butler in February but we're trying to dump him now? Is he injured?


Butler has been on the block for a year.


He wasn't really on the block though. They would only trade him if you gave up every asset. How dumb was it to demand Crowder in return from Boston?


It came down to the picks. Boston never was going to give up the pick and it's not like we just found out yesterday that Hayward was going to be available. Everyone knew his contract status.

Most reports contradict this. MANY reporters have said the picks were on the table but the Bulls wanted players instead.



Many more have said the opposite.

That's simply not true. Since you have been corrected on this many times at this point I have to assume the dishonesty is intentional.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:49 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Why would a Boston team that was dangling the picks in front of everyone prefer to give up players that could help them go to the Finals for Butler?



One of the guys plays Butler's position thus he would not have seen much time anyway. The narrative was that Butler wasn't enough to beat Cleveland and they were right. Ainge has been conservative when its been about those picks. If he snares Hayward to go along with Tatum then he has something to get at Cleveland with. Much better play than trading for Butler and he can still move his surplus of swingmen to get guys. He is in the proverbial catbird seat right about now.


Not making the trade has worked out. He still has the unprotected Nets pick to deal at the deadline again. He should probably chase Blake knowing that he could trade for Paul George at the deadline.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:50 pm 
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CHICAGO — NBA franchises fail all the time in trying to construct a team. On Thursday, the Bulls illustrated that it’s possible to botch the dismantling of one.

Anyone who watched the Bulls over the past two years could see that this team — whether it managed to sneak into the playoffs or not — was on a treadmill of mediocrity. And that was the case despite having an All-NBA talent like swingman Jimmy Butler. The reset button needed to be hit.

That happened Thursday when the team traded Butler to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Zach LaVine, Kris Dunn and the No. 7 draft pick, Lauri Markkanen. Without context, acquiring young players like LaVine (who averaged 19 points a game last season), Dunn (the highly sought-after No. 5 pick from last June) and 7-foot sharpshooter Markkanen would be a decent return for a player of Butler’s caliber. But, like always, the devil is in the details here. LaVine missed the final 32 games of the season after tearing his ACL — an injury the Bulls are all too familiar with — while Dunn had an incredibly rough rookie season, one in which he not only posted the lowest true-shooting percentage among first-year players, but the worst true-shooting mark of any player, period.1

And while it’s too soon to truly criticize anything about the Markkanen acquisition, it was shocking that Chicago felt the need to send its No. 16 pick2 to the Wolves to complete this trade, given how much better Butler was than everyone else involved. The Bulls shouldn’t have needed to sendanything else to sweeten the deal.unloaded Taj Gibson and Doug McDermott, the two best players in that transaction, yet found themselves giving up a second-round pick to complete the swap." style="box-sizing: border-box; text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(0, 143, 213); text-decoration: none; position: relative;">3 Yet the team says this was the best offer they had for Butler, by far, and that the move gave Chicago an opportunity to move from the center of the totem pole all the way near the bottom, where it will be easier to build through the draft in the future.

“Jimmy has improved as an individual maybe as much as any guy we’ve been around,” said Bulls Executive Vice President John Paxson of Butler, who went from averaging 2.6 points as a rookie to nearly 24 points in his sixth year. “Minnesota is obviously getting a heck of a player. He’s going to be missed. But with that said, what we’ve done is set a direction. We’ve gone to the playoffs, but not at a level that we’ve wanted to. And in this league, success is not determined that way. And we’ve decided to make the change and rebuild this roster.”

The rebuild is already off to an odd start, though. Beyond LaVine’s injury risk, the Bulls are also getting him at a time when the 22-year-old is on the cusp of landing what figures to be a big payday. (In fact, they’ll be forced to hammer out an extension this summer — perhaps well north of $20 million a year, without seeing him play meaningful basketball since the injury — or else risk another team throwing a bigger offer at him as a restricted free agent and forcing Chicago to match.) There’s a decent chance his next deal briefly outpaces Butler’s annual salary of almost $19 million, one of the best bargains in the NBA, since Butler is locked in until at least 2019.

In other words: The rebuild will require the Bulls to shell out considerable salary to a young player who hasn’t proven to be a sure thing yet. And with Dunn, one of the older rookies in last year’s draft, they’ll be hoping that last season was just an aberration for him.

Part of what makes the swap so disappointing for the Bulls is the fact that they were engaged in draft-dayconversations about the same players last year, before talks eventually broke off. The Bulls have more information now — that LaVine showed vast improvement on offense before tearing his ACL, that Dunn’s college success probably won’t translate right away, and that Butler is truly an elite, All-NBA talent — yet the Bulls pulled the trigger on a package that should be even less attractive to them now than it was then.

From Minnesota’s vantage point, it’s easy to imagine how Butler can immediately come in and change things for the youthful Timberwolves, who were a great first-half team but blew more double-digit leads in second halves than any other team in the NBA. The 27-year-old was fantastic when it counted this past season, posting a 44.5 player-efficiency rating in clutch scenarios,4 second-best in the NBA behind only Russell Westbrook, according to ESPN Stats & Information Group. His presence also boosts a defense that was fifth-worst in the league last season, in part because Andrew Wiggins still really struggles on that end, even though he has wingspan and athleticism of a stopper. It wouldn’t be surprising to hear some put Minnesota on a short list of clubs that could potentially beat Golden State a couple of years from now if they continue to build out that roster.

There are a handful of things that figure to work out nicely for the Bulls as a result of this trade, too. LaVine showed considerable improvement as a shooter last season, something Chicago can use given the team’s abysmal numbers from outside. And his ability to get up and down the floor should allow coach Fred Hoiberg play the uptempo style he’s wanted to use since joining the Bulls more than two years ago. (This becomes even more true if Dwyane Wade, who recently told the team that he was opting into the last year of his deal for $24 million, decides it’s best to negotiate a buyout with the club.)

With Dunn, even if his offense doesn’t improve a ton, the team will at least have a very good, capable defender at the guard spot. The ex-Providence standout is a pest and uses his length to disrupt the passing lanes. He ranked fourth in the NBA with 4.6 deflections per 36 minutes.5

All things considered, though, there’s a reason that the Bulls are getting failing grades for this move. No one is knocking the idea of conceding that a rebuild was necessary. That much was obvious. But given that Butler had more time left on his deal, the team’s hand wasn’t forced to do something this very moment. Chicago easily could’ve waited until the trade deadline to try to sell the swingman off to a desperate contender.

Either way, the Bulls should have been able to get more than damaged, or diminished, goods in exchange for their franchise player.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Been watching some highlights of the guys the Bulls got yesterday.

Do they possibly think Dunn can be a little like Rondo?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:43 pm 
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pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
RFDC wrote:
Been watching some highlights of the guys the Bulls got yesterday.

Do they possibly think Dunn can be a little like Rondo?

Rondo's always been a special passer. Seems more like Mudiay

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