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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:27 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Paxson got the best deal that he was going to get for Butler.




long time guy wrote:
Trading Butler (which people here are mad about ultimately)isn't a bad thing. Should have did it last season. I find it ironic that the great Thibs was the only one willing to give up much for him. At least the Bulls were able to acquire "talent" for the overrated Ball stopper.




can you at least not contradict yourself within the same post ? They got the best deal...but they should have traded him least season :lol:



You have comprehend a little better. They got the Best deal they were going to get for him at this time. I really don't know what they could have gotten for him last year. My point is that the rebuild should have started last season. I'm on record as saying that.

As far as Dunn goes it's interesting how suddenly he isn't "young" anymore either. He is now a bum and a "bust" now that the Bulls acquired him. I must have missed this while the Thibs love fest was going on last season.

I called him that. Don't recall a lot of agreement on it but now that he is gone he is suddenly a shitty ass player.


Aren't Bulls fans calling Dunn a bum?


Bagels isn't a Bulls fan.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:28 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Paxson got the best deal that he was going to get for Butler.




long time guy wrote:
Trading Butler (which people here are mad about ultimately)isn't a bad thing. Should have did it last season. I find it ironic that the great Thibs was the only one willing to give up much for him. At least the Bulls were able to acquire "talent" for the overrated Ball stopper.




can you at least not contradict yourself within the same post ? They got the best deal...but they should have traded him least season :lol:



You have comprehend a little better. They got the Best deal they were going to get for him at this time. I really don't know what they could have gotten for him last year. My point is that the rebuild should have started last season. I'm on record as saying that.

As far as Dunn goes it's interesting how suddenly he isn't "young" anymore either. He is now a bum and a "bust" now that the Bulls acquired him. I must have missed this while the Thibs love fest was going on last season.

I called him that. Don't recall a lot of agreement on it but now that he is gone he is suddenly a shitty ass player.

the rebuild should have started when they could get the best deal for the team as constructed, in order to tear it apart. Are you saying that was last year or this year?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:29 am 
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long time guy wrote:

Bagels isn't a Bulls fan.


yes i am


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:30 am 
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Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I really don't know what they could have gotten for him last year



more than this

I believed that he tried to get more and was turned down. Butler isn't as valued as people here think. It's obvious.


As Nas has already mentioned, they could have had picks from Boston . You really do just make shit up


Maybe Nas is making things up. If they could have gotten multiple picks for Butler then why did the very same Boston turn Paxson down for the #3 yesterday?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:32 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Paxson got the best deal that he was going to get for Butler.




long time guy wrote:
Trading Butler (which people here are mad about ultimately)isn't a bad thing. Should have did it last season. I find it ironic that the great Thibs was the only one willing to give up much for him. At least the Bulls were able to acquire "talent" for the overrated Ball stopper.




can you at least not contradict yourself within the same post ? They got the best deal...but they should have traded him least season :lol:



You have comprehend a little better. They got the Best deal they were going to get for him at this time. I really don't know what they could have gotten for him last year. My point is that the rebuild should have started last season. I'm on record as saying that.

As far as Dunn goes it's interesting how suddenly he isn't "young" anymore either. He is now a bum and a "bust" now that the Bulls acquired him. I must have missed this while the Thibs love fest was going on last season.

I called him that. Don't recall a lot of agreement on it but now that he is gone he is suddenly a shitty ass player.

the rebuild should have started when they could get the best deal for the team as constructed, in order to tear it apart. Are you saying that was last year or this year?


The rebuild should have started last season. When they decided to allow Rose Noah and Pau to walk then Butler should have been right behind them. No way you rebuild with Butler around.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:34 am 
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Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Bagels isn't a Bulls fan.


yes i am


Thought you were more a Wolves fan and I don't recall you being this sour on Dunn at any point during last season.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:54 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Bagels isn't a Bulls fan.


yes i am


Thought you were more a Wolves fan and I don't recall you being this sour on Dunn at any point during last season.


Do you think this package of players is any good?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:21 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Bagels isn't a Bulls fan.


yes i am


Thought you were more a Wolves fan and I don't recall you being this sour on Dunn at any point during last season.


Do you think this package of players is any good?


Lavine can score and is talented. He has holes in his game defense chiefly. Dunn is talented and can guard. Don't know if he has an NBA position though. I thought he was a bust but Thibs is murder on rookies and I'm hoping this is the case here. I liked him coming out of college and thought they had something with him. Looked like the best player in Vegas and then once the season started he looked bad. Couldn't shoot and orchestrating an offense was difficult too.

I'm a Bulls fan and hoping for the best. I don't think they were going to get more for Butler than they got. In a couple of years he will really be broke down and you aren't getting anything for him then.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:21 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Bagels isn't a Bulls fan.


yes i am


Thought you were more a Wolves fan and I don't recall you being this sour on Dunn at any point during last season.


Do you think this package of players is any good?


Lavine can score and is talented. He has holes in his game defense chiefly. Dunn is talented and can guard. Don't know if he has an NBA position though. I thought he was a bust but Thibs is murder on rookies and I'm hoping this is the case here. I liked him coming out of college and thought they had something with him. Looked like the best player in Vegas and then once the season started he looked bad. Couldn't shoot and orchestrating an offense was difficult too.

I'm a Bulls fan and hoping for the best. I don't think they were going to get more for Butler than they got. In a couple of years he will really be broke down and you aren't getting anything for him then.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:41 pm 
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I'm cool with them finally deciding to trade Butler and if that was the best offer they could get, so be it.

As for the draft pick, I did get to see Markenan play several times this year and honestly, I was underwhelmed more often than not, especially later in the season. There's no doubt he is an amazing shooter, one of the best ever at his height. And he is athletic for his size, he can move. However, his defense and rebounding were horrific this year. Defense doesn't concern me, you can always get better defensively simply with effort.

There's no doubt that he has the prototypical stretch 4 body and skill set. All year long I heard various experts say that when it was all said and done he would be the best player from this draft. But, I also heard that about Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Isaac and Dennis Smith at one time or another.

I would say of the top 7 prospects listed above he has one of the highest bust potentials along side Smith and Isaac. But, he also might have the highest ceiling aside from Ball and Fultz.

When it was time to draft part of me was hoping they would gamble on Dennis Smith, but I totally understand making the more conservative pick in Lauri.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:43 pm 
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I will say this, of all the prospects in the draft the two that possess a skill that I would classify as "special" as in a once in a decade type of talent would be Ball for his vision and playmaking and Lauri for his big man shooting ability. So there's that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:49 pm 
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shakes wrote:
I'm cool with them finally deciding to trade Butler and if that was the best offer they could get, so be it.

As for the draft pick, I did get to see Markenan play several times this year and honestly, I was underwhelmed more often than not, especially later in the season. There's no doubt he is an amazing shooter, one of the best ever at his height. And he is athletic for his size, he can move. However, his defense and rebounding were horrific this year. Defense doesn't concern me, you can always get better defensively simply with effort.

There's no doubt that he has the prototypical stretch 4 body and skill set. All year long I heard various experts say that when it was all said and done he would be the best player from this draft. But, I also heard that about Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Isaac and Dennis Smith at one time or another.

I would say of the top 7 prospects listed above he has one of the highest bust potentials along side Smith and Isaac. But, he also might have the highest ceiling aside from Ball and Fultz.

When it was time to draft part of me was hoping they would gamble on Dennis Smith, but I totally understand making the more conservative pick in Lauri.

I have a very hard time believing he has a high ceiling. If you're 7 feet tall and can't rebound you simply cannot be a very effective NBA player. We just drafted Andrea Bargnani 2.0

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:50 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
I'm cool with them finally deciding to trade Butler and if that was the best offer they could get, so be it.

As for the draft pick, I did get to see Markenan play several times this year and honestly, I was underwhelmed more often than not, especially later in the season. There's no doubt he is an amazing shooter, one of the best ever at his height. And he is athletic for his size, he can move. However, his defense and rebounding were horrific this year. Defense doesn't concern me, you can always get better defensively simply with effort.

There's no doubt that he has the prototypical stretch 4 body and skill set. All year long I heard various experts say that when it was all said and done he would be the best player from this draft. But, I also heard that about Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Isaac and Dennis Smith at one time or another.

I would say of the top 7 prospects listed above he has one of the highest bust potentials along side Smith and Isaac. But, he also might have the highest ceiling aside from Ball and Fultz.

When it was time to draft part of me was hoping they would gamble on Dennis Smith, but I totally understand making the more conservative pick in Lauri.

I have a very hard time believing he has a high ceiling. If you're 7 feet tall and can't rebound you simply cannot be a very effective NBA player. We just drafted Andrea Bargnani 2.0

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:01 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
I'm cool with them finally deciding to trade Butler and if that was the best offer they could get, so be it.

As for the draft pick, I did get to see Markenan play several times this year and honestly, I was underwhelmed more often than not, especially later in the season. There's no doubt he is an amazing shooter, one of the best ever at his height. And he is athletic for his size, he can move. However, his defense and rebounding were horrific this year. Defense doesn't concern me, you can always get better defensively simply with effort.

There's no doubt that he has the prototypical stretch 4 body and skill set. All year long I heard various experts say that when it was all said and done he would be the best player from this draft. But, I also heard that about Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Isaac and Dennis Smith at one time or another.

I would say of the top 7 prospects listed above he has one of the highest bust potentials along side Smith and Isaac. But, he also might have the highest ceiling aside from Ball and Fultz.

When it was time to draft part of me was hoping they would gamble on Dennis Smith, but I totally understand making the more conservative pick in Lauri.

I have a very hard time believing he has a high ceiling. If you're 7 feet tall and can't rebound you simply cannot be a very effective NBA player. We just drafted Andrea Bargnani 2.0


I think you're being a bit closed minded. Getting better at rebounding could be as simple as hitting the weight room. On the other hand, the offense and hands this guy has are things you either have or you don't.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:05 pm 
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shakes wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
I'm cool with them finally deciding to trade Butler and if that was the best offer they could get, so be it.

As for the draft pick, I did get to see Markenan play several times this year and honestly, I was underwhelmed more often than not, especially later in the season. There's no doubt he is an amazing shooter, one of the best ever at his height. And he is athletic for his size, he can move. However, his defense and rebounding were horrific this year. Defense doesn't concern me, you can always get better defensively simply with effort.

There's no doubt that he has the prototypical stretch 4 body and skill set. All year long I heard various experts say that when it was all said and done he would be the best player from this draft. But, I also heard that about Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Isaac and Dennis Smith at one time or another.

I would say of the top 7 prospects listed above he has one of the highest bust potentials along side Smith and Isaac. But, he also might have the highest ceiling aside from Ball and Fultz.

When it was time to draft part of me was hoping they would gamble on Dennis Smith, but I totally understand making the more conservative pick in Lauri.

I have a very hard time believing he has a high ceiling. If you're 7 feet tall and can't rebound you simply cannot be a very effective NBA player. We just drafted Andrea Bargnani 2.0


I think you're being a bit closed minded. Getting better at rebounding could be as simple as hitting the weight room. On the other hand, the offense and hands this guy has are things you either have or you don't.

Rebounding is also something you either have or don't have. It's incredibly rare for a player to be a poor college rebounder and then get better at it. It's one of the most translatable skills from college to the NBA.

I thought I was being a bit reactionary last night but after a day to digest the news and think about it while sober, I actually probably dislike the pick even more. It's borderline indefensible. You can't draft role players with the 7th overall pick in one of the deepest drafts in over a decade.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:07 pm 
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Wasn't there similar concerns about Porzingis when he was drafted?

Not saying at all that this guy will be Porzingis, but it seems like the same things said about any tall white stretch 4.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:10 pm 
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This was said about Porzingis, but sounds like it could be the same for the finnish dude

Quote:
Most obvious weakness is his underdeveloped body – just 220 pounds and has an average frame… Not a very effective player in the post on either end because of his lack of strength… Can settle for jump shots too often… Despite size and length, averages just 7.6 rebounds per 36 in Spanish ACB… Is a bit of a boom-or-bust prospect and figures to be somewhat of a project early on with the potential to eventually become one of the best players, if not the best player, in the class.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Pretty sure Markkanen isn't gonna be averaging 2.3 blocks per 36 over his first two years in the league

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:13 pm 
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I dont like the pick. I would have much rather had Monk.

Just looking for any glimmer of hope

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:21 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I dont like the pick. I would have much rather had Monk.

Just looking for any glimmer of hope



Monk has a very low ceiling in the NBA, he's a bench player.

At least this guy has star "potential".

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:23 pm 
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I really hope I'm wrong. I've read quite a bit and watched a lot of Lauri's "highlights". I don't see any potential really. I guess he would be good in a game of horse.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:23 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
I'm cool with them finally deciding to trade Butler and if that was the best offer they could get, so be it.

As for the draft pick, I did get to see Markenan play several times this year and honestly, I was underwhelmed more often than not, especially later in the season. There's no doubt he is an amazing shooter, one of the best ever at his height. And he is athletic for his size, he can move. However, his defense and rebounding were horrific this year. Defense doesn't concern me, you can always get better defensively simply with effort.

There's no doubt that he has the prototypical stretch 4 body and skill set. All year long I heard various experts say that when it was all said and done he would be the best player from this draft. But, I also heard that about Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Isaac and Dennis Smith at one time or another.

I would say of the top 7 prospects listed above he has one of the highest bust potentials along side Smith and Isaac. But, he also might have the highest ceiling aside from Ball and Fultz.

When it was time to draft part of me was hoping they would gamble on Dennis Smith, but I totally understand making the more conservative pick in Lauri.

I have a very hard time believing he has a high ceiling. If you're 7 feet tall and can't rebound you simply cannot be a very effective NBA player. We just drafted Andrea Bargnani 2.0


I think you're being a bit closed minded. Getting better at rebounding could be as simple as hitting the weight room. On the other hand, the offense and hands this guy has are things you either have or you don't.

Rebounding is also something you either have or don't have. It's incredibly rare for a player to be a poor college rebounder and then get better at it. It's one of the most translatable skills from college to the NBA.

I thought I was being a bit reactionary last night but after a day to digest the news and think about it while sober, I actually probably dislike the pick even more. It's borderline indefensible. You can't draft role players with the 7th overall pick in one of the deepest drafts in over a decade.


yea but you don't know if he's going to be a role player or not. Like I said you're being closed minded about it.

As far as the rebounding, I disagree that you can't get better at it. But, if this guy can provide the offense he's capable of, rebounding would just be a bonus. As long as he can learn to defend and has great offense, I don't think it matters if he doesn't rebound well. I assume we'll have other people for that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:24 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I really don't know what they could have gotten for him last year



more than this

Paxson has shopped the guy for over a year. I'm certain of that. I believed that he tried to get more and was turned down. Butler isn't as valued as people here think. It's obvious. You keep him and risk paying 200 mil or getting nothing. I would not take this chance. I'm not enamored by the trade but at least they acquired talent. Both Dunn and Levine have been considered that at least. Don't know if it will translate into being players though Lavine is much further along than Dunn with that.


The Bulls could have literally had the first pick in the draft as well as their own lottery pick if they made the deal with the Celtics at the deadline. Instead of taking picks they wanted Jaw Crowder and others.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:26 pm 
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shakes wrote:

yea but you don't know if he's going to be a role player or not. Like I said you're being closed minded about it.

As far as the rebounding, I disagree that you can't get better at it. But, if this guy can provide the offense he's capable of, rebounding would just be a bonus. As long as he can learn to defend and has great offense, I don't think it matters if he doesn't rebound well. I assume we'll have other people for that.

I disagree that I'm being close minded about it. He looks EXACTLY like a role player. We'll see how he turns out. He's much more likely to be Channing Frye than Dirk or Porzingis.

Your comments relating to his defense just seem like blind optimism, IMO. He looks horrendous on that side of the ball, and that's before even playing against pros.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:29 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I really don't know what they could have gotten for him last year



more than this

I believed that he tried to get more and was turned down. Butler isn't as valued as people here think. It's obvious.


As Nas has already mentioned, they could have had picks from Boston . You really do just make shit up


Maybe Nas is making things up. If they could have gotten multiple picks for Butler then why did the very same Boston turn Paxson down for the #3 yesterday?


Boston was trying to win a championship in February. Now they understand they can keep the pick and probably sign Hayward in a couple of weeks.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:33 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
I'm cool with them finally deciding to trade Butler and if that was the best offer they could get, so be it.

As for the draft pick, I did get to see Markenan play several times this year and honestly, I was underwhelmed more often than not, especially later in the season. There's no doubt he is an amazing shooter, one of the best ever at his height. And he is athletic for his size, he can move. However, his defense and rebounding were horrific this year. Defense doesn't concern me, you can always get better defensively simply with effort.

There's no doubt that he has the prototypical stretch 4 body and skill set. All year long I heard various experts say that when it was all said and done he would be the best player from this draft. But, I also heard that about Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Isaac and Dennis Smith at one time or another.

I would say of the top 7 prospects listed above he has one of the highest bust potentials along side Smith and Isaac. But, he also might have the highest ceiling aside from Ball and Fultz.

When it was time to draft part of me was hoping they would gamble on Dennis Smith, but I totally understand making the more conservative pick in Lauri.

I have a very hard time believing he has a high ceiling. If you're 7 feet tall and can't rebound you simply cannot be a very effective NBA player. We just drafted Andrea Bargnani 2.0


I think you're being a bit closed minded. Getting better at rebounding could be as simple as hitting the weight room. On the other hand, the offense and hands this guy has are things you either have or you don't.

Rebounding is also something you either have or don't have. It's incredibly rare for a player to be a poor college rebounder and then get better at it. It's one of the most translatable skills from college to the NBA.

I thought I was being a bit reactionary last night but after a day to digest the news and think about it while sober, I actually probably dislike the pick even more. It's borderline indefensible. You can't draft role players with the 7th overall pick in one of the deepest drafts in over a decade.


This

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I really don't know what they could have gotten for him last year



more than this

I believed that he tried to get more and was turned down. Butler isn't as valued as people here think. It's obvious.


As Nas has already mentioned, they could have had picks from Boston . You really do just make shit up


Maybe Nas is making things up. If they could have gotten multiple picks for Butler then why did the very same Boston turn Paxson down for the #3 yesterday?


Boston was trying to win a championship in February. Now they understand they can keep the pick and probably sign Hayward in a couple of weeks.


Wasn't the story that Boston wanted to keep the pick and Butler wasn't enough to get them over the top? Definitely weren't willing to part with two for Butler. Hayward's status is no different than it was in February. Ainge didn't want Butler. Not at that price.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:46 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:

yea but you don't know if he's going to be a role player or not. Like I said you're being closed minded about it.

As far as the rebounding, I disagree that you can't get better at it. But, if this guy can provide the offense he's capable of, rebounding would just be a bonus. As long as he can learn to defend and has great offense, I don't think it matters if he doesn't rebound well. I assume we'll have other people for that.

I disagree that I'm being close minded about it. He looks EXACTLY like a role player. We'll see how he turns out. He's much more likely to be Channing Frye than Dirk or Porzingis.

Your comments relating to his defense just seem like blind optimism, IMO. He looks horrendous on that side of the ball, and that's before even playing against pros.


Probably as bad as Jokic's but we will see.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:48 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:

yea but you don't know if he's going to be a role player or not. Like I said you're being closed minded about it.

As far as the rebounding, I disagree that you can't get better at it. But, if this guy can provide the offense he's capable of, rebounding would just be a bonus. As long as he can learn to defend and has great offense, I don't think it matters if he doesn't rebound well. I assume we'll have other people for that.

I disagree that I'm being close minded about it. He looks EXACTLY like a role player. We'll see how he turns out. He's much more likely to be Channing Frye than Dirk or Porzingis.

Your comments relating to his defense just seem like blind optimism, IMO. He looks horrendous on that side of the ball, and that's before even playing against pros.


Probably as bad as Jokic's but we will see.

Here are Jokic's per 100 possession stats from last season:

29.3 PPG, 17.2 RPG, 8.6 APG, 26.4 PER

Keep comparing this Markkanen kid to him though. It's gonna be great bumping this as we go

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I really don't know what they could have gotten for him last year



more than this

I believed that he tried to get more and was turned down. Butler isn't as valued as people here think. It's obvious.


As Nas has already mentioned, they could have had picks from Boston . You really do just make shit up


Maybe Nas is making things up. If they could have gotten multiple picks for Butler then why did the very same Boston turn Paxson down for the #3 yesterday?


Boston was trying to win a championship in February. Now they understand they can keep the pick and probably sign Hayward in a couple of weeks.




long time guy wrote:
Wasn't the story that Boston wanted to keep the pick and Butler wasn't enough to get them over the top? Definitely weren't willing to part with two for Butler. Hayward's status is no different than it was in February. Ainge didn't want Butler. Not at that price.


Nah there's a thread around here about it. The Celtics were shocked that the Bulls wanted their players instead of picks.

Hayward wasn't coming over in February so trading picks for Butler or George made sense. NOW they can have it all. They get arguably the best player in the draft and they have cap room to sign a stud like Hayward.

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