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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:50 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
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Whatever. Just another one of Jerry's boys getting a paycheck. I doubt Gar's being phased out and even in the unlikely event that he is, Paxson is unfortunately still around and Collins has shown no eye for modern NBA talent evaluation.


I don't think that having an "eye for modern NBA talent" has ever been his job. I don't think he was ever placed in charge of player personnel during any of his other stops.


Okay so he doesn't have experience identifying talent and has never been in charge of player personnel. Sounds like you hate the hire.


Yeah about as much you hated the Thibs hire in Minnesota. No one has ever questioned Collin's basketball mind or his ability to evaluate talent. He is one of the best basketball guys in the business. It is unfair to suggest that a guy is a failure at something he has yet to ever attempt. Awfully presumptuous

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:18 pm 
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I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


It's a good thing that Paxson felt the need to correct Thibs earlier mistake regarding Collins.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.


I think Doug is underrated.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:42 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


It's a good thing that Paxson felt the need to correct Thibs earlier mistake regarding Collins.


Putting a competent Randy Brown on the bench? Thibs would have been a moron to do that and I don't think Doug wanted to do it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:23 pm 
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a non factor as I see it

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.


I think Doug is underrated.


You've got guys here who think Doug Collins was a better coach of the Bulls than Phil Jackson.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.


I think Doug is underrated.

I've hated him since he was on the team that lost to CCCP

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:40 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.


I think Doug is underrated.


You've got guys here who think Doug Collins was a better coach of the Bulls than Phil Jackson.


I hear that too.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Doug lost to the Russians in '72,fuck him.

What,you need to hear "We Suck" in a raspy voice,too?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:07 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.


I think Doug is underrated.


You've got guys here who think Doug Collins was a better coach of the Bulls than Phil Jackson.



He was and by default a better player personnel guy too.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:12 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.


I think Doug is underrated.


You've got guys here who think Doug Collins was a better coach of the Bulls than Phil Jackson.



He was and by default a better player personnel guy too.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:15 pm 
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I must say I don't get the VFan/LTG constant tilt. I am not against it per se. Just don't get it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:27 pm 
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[quote="beni hanna"]I must say I don't get the VFan/LTG constant tilt. I am not against it per se. Just don't get it.[/quote]

Vegan has terrible basketball thoughts. Other than than he's aight with me. Rarely personal though. He hates Bulls management/ownership and I probably come off like a shill. his latest topic dujour is Kyrie bashing. Just cant fathom why anyone would dare leave Lebron and blaze their own trail. Don't think that will end well for him either.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:35 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
beni hanna wrote:
I must say I don't get the VFan/LTG constant tilt. I am not against it per se. Just don't get it.


Vegan has terrible basketball thoughts. Other than than he's aight with me. Rarely personal though. He hates Bulls management/ownership and I probably come off like a shill. his latest topic dujour is Kyrie bashing. Just cant fathom why anyone would dare leave Lebron and blaze their own trail. Don't think that will end well for him either.

I keep looking for that one thread, post even, when you two are in agreement, and piling on a FavreFan, Nas or Leash. Maybe it's happened. Just haven't seen it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Collins' reputation is almost entirely a product of coaching Michael and because he's a good media personality. His coaching record is pretty undistinguished aside from that and he's anti-intellectual in his approach to the game. Washington and Philadelphia fans don't exactly have fond memories of him and his expanded role in personnel decisions his last offseason in Philadelphia was a debacle. He wanted to sign Kwame Brown in the year 2012 to a 5 year guaranteed deal and was a big fan of the Bynum trade.

Literally the only halfway positive spin on this is he might improve the Bulls front office's awful reputation around the league (this guy coached MJ!), but that seems about as likely as the idea that free agents would flock to Chicago because they'd have fond memories of Fred Hoiberg's career as a player.

Oh the other plus side is that this might give the Bulls an edge on attracting players from the basketball powerhouse known as Illinois State University. The young talent coming out of there is rivaled only by Iowa State.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:55 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
...Oh the other plus side is that this might give the Bulls an edge on attracting players from the basketball powerhouse known as Illinois State University. The young talent coming out of there is rivaled only by Iowa State.

Yeah, Bulls have the Northwestern pipeline all to themselves.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:57 pm 
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wow big news. Why didnt they just give the guy the GM job and get rid of the others?

Still trying to find the truth on why this guy was fired and who was behind it back in the 80s? I heard some of the posters here say it was because of some sexual thing. Never got a straight answer.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:01 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Collins' reputation is almost entirely a product of coaching Michael and because he's a good media personality. His coaching record is pretty undistinguished aside from that and he's anti-intellectual in his approach to the game. Washington and Philadelphia fans don't exactly have fond memories of him and his expanded role in personnel decisions his last offseason in Philadelphia was a debacle. He wanted to sign Kwame Brown in the year 2012 to a 5 year guaranteed deal and was a big fan of the Bynum trade.

Literally the only halfway positive spin on this is he might improve the Bulls front office's awful reputation around the league (this guy coached MJ!), but that seems about as likely as the idea that free agents would flock to Chicago because they'd have fond memories of Fred Hoiberg's career as a player.

Oh the other plus side is that this might give the Bulls an edge on attracting players from the basketball powerhouse known as Illinois State University. The young talent coming out of there is rivaled only by Iowa State.


Doug Collins did a solid job coaching the Pistons also. If you think those Bulls teams were a treat to coach then you really don't know what you're talking about. No surprise there. Even with Jordan they weren't exactly a talent laden bunch. He also coached the team to its biggest upset win in history. Series win over Cleveland.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:03 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Collins' reputation is almost entirely a product of coaching Michael and because he's a good media personality. His coaching record is pretty undistinguished aside from that and he's anti-intellectual in his approach to the game. Washington and Philadelphia fans don't exactly have fond memories of him and his expanded role in personnel decisions his last offseason in Philadelphia was a debacle. He wanted to sign Kwame Brown in the year 2012 to a 5 year guaranteed deal and was a big fan of the Bynum trade.

Literally the only halfway positive spin on this is he might improve the Bulls front office's awful reputation around the league (this guy coached MJ!), but that seems about as likely as the idea that free agents would flock to Chicago because they'd have fond memories of Fred Hoiberg's career as a player.

Oh the other plus side is that this might give the Bulls an edge on attracting players from the basketball powerhouse known as Illinois State University. The young talent coming out of there is rivaled only by Iowa State.


Doug Collins did a solid job coaching the Pistons also. If you think those Bulls teams were a treat to coach then you really don't know what you're talking about. No surprise there. Even with Jordan they weren't exactly a talent laden bunch. He also coached the team to its biggest upset win in history. Series win over Cleveland.
Cool, those things he did as a coach 2-3 decades ago definitely mean this is a great hire today! Just like Phil Jackson's exponentially greater success as a coach in Chicago and LA meant making him GM in New York was a definite no-brainer.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:10 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Collins' reputation is almost entirely a product of coaching Michael and because he's a good media personality. His coaching record is pretty undistinguished aside from that and he's anti-intellectual in his approach to the game. Washington and Philadelphia fans don't exactly have fond memories of him and his expanded role in personnel decisions his last offseason in Philadelphia was a debacle. He wanted to sign Kwame Brown in the year 2012 to a 5 year guaranteed deal and was a big fan of the Bynum trade.

Literally the only halfway positive spin on this is he might improve the Bulls front office's awful reputation around the league (this guy coached MJ!), but that seems about as likely as the idea that free agents would flock to Chicago because they'd have fond memories of Fred Hoiberg's career as a player.

Oh the other plus side is that this might give the Bulls an edge on attracting players from the basketball powerhouse known as Illinois State University. The young talent coming out of there is rivaled only by Iowa State.


Doug Collins did a solid job coaching the Pistons also. If you think those Bulls teams were a treat to coach then you really don't know what you're talking about. No surprise there. Even with Jordan they weren't exactly a talent laden bunch. He also coached the team to its biggest upset win in history. Series win over Cleveland.
Cool, those things he did as a coach 2-3 decades ago definitely mean this is a great hire today! Just like Phil Jackson's exponentially greater success as a coach in Chicago and LA meant making him GM in New York was a definite no-brainer.


Doug Collins has coached 4 teams including one this decade. Each one has shown instant improvement. 10 game or better improvements have been the norm.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:16 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.


I think Doug is underrated.


You've got guys here who think Doug Collins was a better coach of the Bulls than Phil Jackson.



He was and by default a better player personnel guy too.

why was he hired other than tell him his thoughts.....which you could have gotten from ESPN for nothing

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:19 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
I wanted Collins over Thibs. Clearly the Bulls made the right choice. I would be excited to get Doug working with Pax. I think at the very least both know what they are doing. Gar sucks.


I guess he really is the best substitute for a local Jerry West as we could get, meh.


I think Doug is underrated.


You've got guys here who think Doug Collins was a better coach of the Bulls than Phil Jackson.



He was and by default a better player personnel guy too.

why was he hired other than tell him his thoughts.....which you could have gotten from ESPN for nothing



Then that would make his sort of like yours. Can t have that in Reinsdorf country.

He was hired in order to bump Gar out. Even if Forman lasts the year he will be marginalized to the point of being obsolete.

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Last edited by long time guy on Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:21 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Doug Collins has coached 4 teams including one this decade. Each one has shown instant improvement. 10 game or better improvements have been the norm.

He coached Michael, Grant Hill, and a returning Michael in his first season for the first 3 jobs. For the fourth one, where he actually took on a more active personnel role, he actively pushed for the Bynum trade that left the 76ers so barren they had to initiate Hinkie's tanking process. He also whined constantly his last season about suddenly missing Iguodala and Vucevic en route to finishing 14 games below .500.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:25 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Doug Collins has coached 4 teams including one this decade. Each one has shown instant improvement. 10 game or better improvements have been the norm.

He coached Michael, Grant Hill, and a returning Michael in his first season for the first 3 jobs. For the fourth one, where he actually took on a more active personnel role, he actively pushed for the Bynum trade that left the 76ers so barren they had to initiate Hinkie's tanking process. He also whined constantly his last season about suddenly missing Iguodala and Vucevic en route to finishing 14 games below .500.



The other coaches that preceded him also coached Michael and Grant too. Fact remains that those teams improved instantly under Collins. Marked improvement also. He bounced a Cleveland team that was much more talented than his also. Better than every position except 2 and 89 Harper was a stud.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:13 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Doug Collins has coached 4 teams including one this decade. Each one has shown instant improvement. 10 game or better improvements have been the norm.

He coached Michael, Grant Hill, and a returning Michael in his first season for the first 3 jobs. For the fourth one, where he actually took on a more active personnel role, he actively pushed for the Bynum trade that left the 76ers so barren they had to initiate Hinkie's tanking process. He also whined constantly his last season about suddenly missing Iguodala and Vucevic en route to finishing 14 games below .500.



The other coaches that preceded him also coached Michael and Grant too. Fact remains that those teams improved instantly under Collins. Marked improvement also. He bounced a Cleveland team that was much more talented than his also. Better than every position except 2 and 89 Harper was a stud.

Nope, his predecessor in Washington didn't have Michael. Since you're citing stuff that's nearly 30 years old now though, perhaps the Bulls could also consider bringing on Billy Cunningham as well given how much he overachieved with the Sixers.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:00 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Doug Collins has coached 4 teams including one this decade. Each one has shown instant improvement. 10 game or better improvements have been the norm.

He coached Michael, Grant Hill, and a returning Michael in his first season for the first 3 jobs. For the fourth one, where he actually took on a more active personnel role, he actively pushed for the Bynum trade that left the 76ers so barren they had to initiate Hinkie's tanking process. He also whined constantly his last season about suddenly missing Iguodala and Vucevic en route to finishing 14 games below .500.



The other coaches that preceded him also coached Michael and Grant too. Fact remains that those teams improved instantly under Collins. Marked improvement also. He bounced a Cleveland team that was much more talented than his also. Better than every position except 2 and 89 Harper was a stud.

Nope, his predecessor in Washington didn't have Michael. Since you're citing stuff that's nearly 30 years old now though, perhaps the Bulls could also consider bringing on Billy Cunningham as well given how much he overachieved with the Sixers.


Ok so he coached a 40 year old Jordan and the other guy didn't. Man you really are reaching and since we are speaking about truths he coached Philly 7 not 30 years ago. Fact remains that every team that he has coached has improved instantly. If memory serves correctly didn't he knock off your guy Thibs also. #8 seed at that. Maybe that's why everyone seems to hate him.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:18 am 
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I guess it didn't sink in after the Butler trade, but the Bulls are in full tank mode...the oddsmakers have their O/U win total at 22.5 (!), easily worst in the league.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:54 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
I guess it didn't sink in after the Butler trade, but the Bulls are in full tank mode...the oddsmakers have their O/U win total at 22.5 (!), easily worst in the league.


Oh yeah. Its another reason the trading Butler was the right move. They will actually be able to potentially acquire 4 guys that could help them when it is all said and done. I wanted them to start this last season but whatever. With Butler they were assured of never drafting in the top 10. Weak East he and an engaged Wade get you 30-35 wins. Difficult to draft a franchise guy from that position. They are trying to get in position for Porter or Bagley. Couple of years of drafting high with the cast they have and they should be decent.

I like the plan but I'm leery on the guys carrying out the execution however.

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