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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Hoiberg is the worst coach in the history of the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:07 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
The essence of what a good tank job entails.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/1 ... oring-tank



"spread-offense maestro Fred Hoiberg "?

I stopped reading after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:08 pm 
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I stopped reading after "On offense, they embrace the zeitgeist"

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:38 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
The essence of what a good tank job entails.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/1 ... oring-tank

:lol: Did you even read the article?

There’s not an art to tanking. It’s not difficult to put together a roster of 12 guys who suck at basketball.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:49 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The essence of what a good tank job entails.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/1 ... oring-tank

:lol: Did you even read the article?

There’s not an art to tanking. It’s not difficult to put together a roster of 12 guys who suck at basketball.


There is something to be said for tanking. There is nothing dumber than thinking you can win with mediocre players. See the Bulls during Jalen Rose/ Crawford era.

Thinking you can win or trying to win with a roster full of losers is one of the dumbest ideas ever conceived.

You win with elite talent. Whether you acquire it by tanking or the euphemistically appealing "losing" doesn't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I stopped reading after "On offense, they embrace the zeitgeist"



Maybe you shouldn't have stopped reading. He actually had pertinent information in there.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:01 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The essence of what a good tank job entails.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/1 ... oring-tank

:lol: Did you even read the article?

There’s not an art to tanking. It’s not difficult to put together a roster of 12 guys who suck at basketball.


There is something to be said for tanking. There is nothing dumber than thinking you can win with mediocre players. See the Bulls during Jalen Rose/ Crawford era.

Thinking you can win or trying to win with a roster full of losers is one of the dumbest ideas ever conceived.

You win with elite talent. Whether you acquire it by tanking or the euphemistically appealing "losing" doesn't matter.

None of that is a response to my post and tanking usually doesn’t work in the nba. I’ve proven this to you multiple times.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:10 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The essence of what a good tank job entails.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/1 ... oring-tank

:lol: Did you even read the article?

There’s not an art to tanking. It’s not difficult to put together a roster of 12 guys who suck at basketball.


There is something to be said for tanking. There is nothing dumber than thinking you can win with mediocre players. See the Bulls during Jalen Rose/ Crawford era.

Thinking you can win or trying to win with a roster full of losers is one of the dumbest ideas ever conceived.

You win with elite talent. Whether you acquire it by tanking or the euphemistically appealing "losing" doesn't matter.

None of that is a response to my post and tanking usually doesn’t work in the nba. I’ve proven this to you multiple times.


As usual you've stated something multiple times and presumed it to be fact.

I can provide a number of instances throughout history where teams have lost intentionally and it's worked out for the franchise.

Do you want me to provide a list of current NBA teams that have attempted to "win" every year for the past 5 years and have gotten absolutely nowhere because of it?

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:25 pm 
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This tank job changed the course of history for the Bulls. People either are unaware or probably forgot about it but this subtle deal at the trade deadline allowed the Bulls an opportunity to draft the greatest player in basketball history.

You want to continue to discuss how tanking doesn't work?


http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/16/sport ... kings.html

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:27 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
This tank job changed the course of history for the Bulls. People either are unaware or probably forgot about it but this subtle deal at the trade deadline allowed the Bulls an opportunity to draft the greatest player in basketball history.

You want to continue to discuss how tanking doesn't work?


http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/16/sport ... kings.html

Figure out what tanking is. Then we can have a discussion about it. (Hint: it’s not one mid season trade)

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:30 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This tank job changed the course of history for the Bulls. People either are unaware or probably forgot about it but this subtle deal at the trade deadline allowed the Bulls an opportunity to draft the greatest player in basketball history.

You want to continue to discuss how tanking doesn't work?


http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/16/sport ... kings.html

Figure out what tanking is. Then we can have a discussion about it. (Hint: it’s not one mid season trade)


Huh? It can be and it was in that instance. You can't redefine it to fit your narrative. That was a tank job. It was considered that at the time also.

I just provided factual evidence of how a slip of one or two slots alters the course of history.

That move enabled the Bulls to draft Jordan. The Bulls Gave Theus away in order to improve their draft position. That's tanking.

I was aware of it at the time. You weren't.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:36 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This tank job changed the course of history for the Bulls. People either are unaware or probably forgot about it but this subtle deal at the trade deadline allowed the Bulls an opportunity to draft the greatest player in basketball history.

You want to continue to discuss how tanking doesn't work?


http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/16/sport ... kings.html

Figure out what tanking is. Then we can have a discussion about it. (Hint: it’s not one mid season trade)


Huh? It can be and it was in that instance. You can't redefine it to fit your narrative. That was a tank job. It was considered that at the time also.

I just provided factual evidence of how a slip of one or two slots alters the course of history.

That move enabled the Bulls to draft Jordan. The Bulls Gave Theus away in order to improve their draft position. That's tanking.

I remember it. You obviously don't.

It happened two years before I was born so you are correct that I don’t remember it happening. But the rest of your post is wrong. Tanking is purposely not competing and it’s done before a season even begins. That Bulls team doesn’t fit the definition and I haven’t redefined anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:42 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This tank job changed the course of history for the Bulls. People either are unaware or probably forgot about it but this subtle deal at the trade deadline allowed the Bulls an opportunity to draft the greatest player in basketball history.

You want to continue to discuss how tanking doesn't work?


http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/16/sport ... kings.html

Figure out what tanking is. Then we can have a discussion about it. (Hint: it’s not one mid season trade)


Huh? It can be and it was in that instance. You can't redefine it to fit your narrative. That was a tank job. It was considered that at the time also.

I just provided factual evidence of how a slip of one or two slots alters the course of history.

That move enabled the Bulls to draft Jordan. The Bulls Gave Theus away in order to improve their draft position. That's tanking.

I remember it. You obviously don't.

It happened two years before I was born so you are correct that I don’t remember it happening. But the rest of your post is wrong. Tanking is purposely not competing and it’s done before a season even begins. That Bulls team doesn’t fit the definition and I haven’t redefined anything.


That Bulls team wasn't trying to win. They'd benched Theus well before that. Two rookies were starting in the backcourt.

Theus at the time was easily their best player. Obvious tank job.

You're unaware of the circumstances yet you proceed to tell what they were anyway. Impressive.

I just provided evidence of where it worked. Don't know what else to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:47 pm 
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No you didn’t. You seem to think every bad team is tanking and every team that trades a player for draft picks is tanking. That’s wrong, and it’s impossible to discuss tanking when you’re going by that definition.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:54 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
No you didn’t. You seem to think every bad team is tanking and every team that trades a player for draft picks is tanking. That’s wrong, and impossible to discuss tanking when you’re going by that definition.


I'm not going to debate semantics. That's futile. What I will State is that in that instance the Bulls were intentionally trying to lose in order to improve their draft position. It worked.

You won't concede that Philly Tanked. Most likely because it's working

Your conception of what constitutes a tank job is woefully off too. Tanking can occur at any point of the season. There are a few ways in which a franchise can "tank the season".

It doesn't have to begin at the beginning of the year.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:00 am 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No you didn’t. You seem to think every bad team is tanking and every team that trades a player for draft picks is tanking. That’s wrong, and impossible to discuss tanking when you’re going by that definition.


I'm not going to debate semantics. That's futile. What I will State is that in that instance the Bulls were intentionally trying to lose in order to improve their draft position. It worked.

You won't concede that Philly Tanked. Most likely because it's working

Your conception of what constitutes a tank job is woefully off too. Tanking can occur at any point of the season. There are a few ways in which a franchise can "tank the season".

It doesn't have to begin at the beginning of the year.

The last two parts of this post are wrong, as usual. The Philly part is also wrong. I’ve never once argued they haven’t tanked, they are literally the textbook definition of tanking. I said I wouldn’t intentionally lose for 4-5 straight years like they did even to get star players.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:12 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No you didn’t. You seem to think every bad team is tanking and every team that trades a player for draft picks is tanking. That’s wrong, and impossible to discuss tanking when you’re going by that definition.


I'm not going to debate semantics. That's futile. What I will State is that in that instance the Bulls were intentionally trying to lose in order to improve their draft position. It worked.

You won't concede that Philly Tanked. Most likely because it's working

Your conception of what constitutes a tank job is woefully off too. Tanking can occur at any point of the season. There are a few ways in which a franchise can "tank the season".

It doesn't have to begin at the beginning of the year.

The last two parts of this post are wrong, as usual. The Philly part is also wrong. I’ve never once argued they haven’t tanked, they are literally the textbook definition of tanking. I said I wouldn’t intentionally lose for 4-5 straight years like they did even to get star players.



Clearly states that tanking doesn't have to entail an entire season.

You're wrong as usual

https://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/10/5266 ... tanking-gm

Clearly relative to what the Bulls did in order to land Jordan.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:34 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This tank job changed the course of history for the Bulls. People either are unaware or probably forgot about it but this subtle deal at the trade deadline allowed the Bulls an opportunity to draft the greatest player in basketball history.

You want to continue to discuss how tanking doesn't work?


http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/16/sport ... kings.html

Figure out what tanking is. Then we can have a discussion about it. (Hint: it’s not one mid season trade)



No maybe you should because obviously you don't have much of a clue about it.

As I said as a 10 about to be 11 year old kid I remembered this trade vividly. Changed history.


The Bulls decided early on to bench their best player thus suppressing win totals. They later decided to essentially give him away for nothing. They were also on a 5 game winning streak at the time they traded him.

Bulls record Pre Theus trade was 21-28.

Bulls record Post Theus trade was 6-27.

They tanked the season in order to get a high draft choice.

That high draft choice turned into Michael Jordan.

It's that simple.


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/re ... f0mwz7jrtd

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Last edited by long time guy on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:34 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This tank job changed the course of history for the Bulls. People either are unaware or probably forgot about it but this subtle deal at the trade deadline allowed the Bulls an opportunity to draft the greatest player in basketball history.

You want to continue to discuss how tanking doesn't work?


http://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/16/sport ... kings.html

Figure out what tanking is. Then we can have a discussion about it. (Hint: it’s not one mid season trade)



Hit submit twice. Edited the 2nd post.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:58 am 
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Lose games
Draft Jordan because someone else took Bowie

Not exactly success by design.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:09 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Lose games
Draft Jordan because someone else took Bowie

Not exactly success by design.


Win games lose one draft spot minimum and draft Sam Perkins. You decide.

They wouldn't even be in position to capitalize on Portland's mistake if they'd done it your way.

Even if Portland takes Jordan Bulls still would have had an opportunity to take Barkley.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:25 pm 
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This Butler trade is looking better and better.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Dunn looking good as is Nwaba & the Swede. Back to back wins. No!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:15 am 
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Quick, trade Mirotic.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:46 am 
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The Bulls have been losing some close ones. Add in a couple of guys tossing in 30 (Nwaba & bustaface) and you got some more wins coming up.

It's the best 6-20 team I have ever seen.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:39 am 
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When they get Lavine back this is a 40-win type team

Lavine
Dunn
Niko
Lauri
Portis(?)
----------
Nwaba
Lopez
Grant
-----------
other guys who should never see playing time.

Still hoping they can get a top 4-5 but I bet they don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:46 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Quick, trade Mirotic.


Hurry up. That's 3 straight wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
When they get Lavine back this is a 40-win type team

Lavine
Dunn
Niko
Lauri
Portis(?)
----------
Nwaba
Lopez
Grant
-----------
other guys who should never see playing time.

Still hoping they can get a top 4-5 but I bet they don't.

In Hoiberg We Trust

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
When they get Lavine back this is a 40-win type team


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:23 pm 
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Hoiberg may be just good enough of a coach to screw the tank job up. For that he definitely should be whacked.

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