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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Not top 5, nor has he ever been.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:42 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Not top 5, nor has he ever been.



Not true. He's unanimously considered to be better than that bitch in Boston. Definitely top 5 if not top 3.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:48 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Not top 5, nor has he ever been.



Not true. He's unanimously considered to be better than that bitch in Boston. Definitely top 5 if not top 3.

:lol: What? I don't know many fans who would take Wall over Kyrie. I certainly wouldn't.

Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chris Paul
Kyrie
Harden
Ben Simmons
Lillard

are all better than him. Can't have him higher than 8th. He's in the discussion with guys like Lowry and Conley to round out the top 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Harden and Simmons are light years ahead of Irving.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.isport ... rving/amp/
Quote:
"I think the difference is, his first three years, he didn't ever make the Playoffs, but you didn't ever hear anybody talk about it," Wall told SLAM's Abe Schwadron of Irving. "My first three years, I don't make the Playoffs, it's, ‘Oh, he's not a Top 10 point guard, he's not a Top 25 point guard, he's not living up to the hype.' But we both were No. 1 picks. Both guys have to live up to some type of hype."

The Wizards handed Wall a max extension in 2013, even though he had yet to rescue them from lottery limbo. Irving himself was tracking toward a similar payday, despite the Cavaliers tying the Sacramento Kings for the league's second-worst winning percentage (33.9) between 2011 and the end of last season.


It was Wall who used 2013-14 as his coming-out party. His Wizards gritted their way to the Eastern Conference's fifth-best record and a second-round playoff appearance for just the second time since 1982.

At the same time Wall was establishing himself as a superstar, Irving, already a recurring All-Star, was failing to save his Cavaliers. They were projected as a playoff contender to start 2013-14, but flamed out amid closed-door controversy and botched free-agency acquisitions like Andrew Bynum.




https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndicatio ... e.amp.html

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:36 pm 
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First you use some source called isportsweb.com

Then you use a 3 year old article from some guy from BR.

:lol:

I believe I have won this argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:38 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
First you use some source called isportsweb.com

Then you use a 3 year old article from some guy from BR.

:lol:

I believe I have won this argument.


Oh, so now we're undermining credible sources just because we don't like their arguments. Got it. The passage of time doesn't mean Wall turning the wizards into a playoff tram while Irving turned the Cavs into a laughingstock never happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:40 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
First you use some source called isportsweb.com

Then you use a 3 year old article from some guy from BR.

:lol:

I believe I have won this argument.


Oh, so now we're undermining credible sources just because we don't like their arguments. Got it. The passage of time doesn't mean Wall turning the wizards into a playoff tram while Irving turned the Cavs into a laughingstock never happened.

Kyrie becoming one of the most reliable postseason players in the last 3 years absolutely does discredit a 3 year old article.

I read a lot of sports articles online, and I have never heard of isportsweb. I disagree with you that they are credible.

It should also be noted that if you were that confident in your opinion, you wouldn't need to google random articles to make your argument for you. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:43 pm 
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I am confident. I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving. You should have told me you were related to Irving.

Irving's success the last three years is directly related to LBJ. Wall is a self made man.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:47 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving.

John Kirk Rule

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Three years ago it was a better argument. Since then Kyrie has proven himself as one of the most clutch scorers in recent history. Wall is going to have to rely on Beal to make all the big shots for the Wizards. That's a very significant advantage to Kyrie.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:48 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving.

John Kirk Rule


Does that mean I owe you 1000$?

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:49 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving.

John Kirk Rule


Does that mean I owe you 1000$?

It means you said I said something I never said.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:49 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Three years ago it was a better argument. Since then Kyrie has proven himself as one of the most clutch scorers in recent history. Wall is going to have to rely on Beal to make all the big shots for the Wizards. That's a very significant advantage to Kyrie.


To what does he owe being in "clutch" moments in the first place? Convenient omission. Plenty of guys look good next to LBJ.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:50 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving.

John Kirk Rule


Does that mean I owe you 1000$?

It means you said I said something I never said.


Same thing somewhat. Come on we're not being graded here.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:52 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Plenty of guys look good next to LBJ.

Historically, the opposite is true. Players numbers tend to go up across the board before and after they are with LeBron.

But Lebron isn't taking those clutch shots for Kyrie so whatever point you are trying to make here is invalid.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:53 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving.

John Kirk Rule


Does that mean I owe you 1000$?

It means you said I said something I never said.


Same thing somewhat. Come on we're not being graded here.

It's not the same thing at all, c'mon.

You said that it was universally agreed upon that Wall is better than Kyrie. I responded by saying most fans I know would take Kyrie over Wall. Somehow you interpreted that as me saying "Nobody has ever said Wall is better than Kyrie." Those aren't even close to similar statements.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Also, Kyrie is continuing to hit clutch shots this year, but I guess LeBron gets credit for that too. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:04 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I am confident. I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving. You should have told me you were related to Irving.

Irving's success the last three years is directly related to LBJ. Wall is a self made man.



Kyrie Irving made 2 all star teams without LeBron James. He also won 33 games with the worst supporting cast in the NBA. That was nothing short of a miracle.


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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:05 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Plenty of guys look good next to LBJ.

Historically, the opposite is true. Players numbers tend to go up across the board before and after they are with LeBron.

But Lebron isn't taking those clutch shots for Kyrie so whatever point you are trying to make here is invalid.


Irving's numbers are down after career highs playing with LBJ. He flourished because he wasn't relied on to be the best player on his own team. LBJ makes winners out of people. He's magnetic like that. Irving barely averages five assists. Good for Irving that he hit clutch shots after LBJ carried him to the finals. He fulfilled his role. He's doing the same in Boston sometimes. It'll all be for nothing because he's not going anywhere. That's what I mean by irrelevant.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:06 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I am confident. I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving. You should have told me you were related to Irving.

Irving's success the last three years is directly related to LBJ. Wall is a self made man.



Kyrie Irving made 2 all star teams without LeBron James. He also won 33 games with the worst supporting cast in the NBA. That was nothing short of a miracle.


Thanks, Kyrie's dad.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:07 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Plenty of guys look good next to LBJ.

Historically, the opposite is true. Players numbers tend to go up across the board before and after they are with LeBron.

But Lebron isn't taking those clutch shots for Kyrie so whatever point you are trying to make here is invalid.


Irving's numbers are down after career highs playing with LBJ. He flourished because he wasn't relied on to be the best player on his own team. LBJ makes winners out of people. He's magnetic like that. Irving barely averages five assists. Good for Irving that he hit clutch shots after LBJ carried him to the finals. He fulfilled his role. He's doing the same in Boston sometimes. It'll all be for nothing because he's not going anywhere. That's what I mean by irrelevant.

His numbers aren't down. They are at a career high this year. It's important to look at the amount of possessions Cleveland averaged per game last year vs Boston this year if you want to be accurate. Something tells me that's not a priority for you though. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:08 pm 
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Kyrie's PER, WS/48, and BPM are at significant career highs. Statistically he is playing far better than he ever has before this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:08 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I am confident. I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving. You should have told me you were related to Irving.

Irving's success the last three years is directly related to LBJ. Wall is a self made man.



Kyrie Irving made 2 all star teams without LeBron James. He also won 33 games with the worst supporting cast in the NBA. That was nothing short of a miracle.


Thanks, Kyrie's dad.



Your Kyrie bashing is one of the weaker takes currently going. They have the best record in the league and they are missing their 2nd best player. I guess your fighting spirit is to be commended.


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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:10 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Plenty of guys look good next to LBJ.

Historically, the opposite is true. Players numbers tend to go up across the board before and after they are with LeBron.

But Lebron isn't taking those clutch shots for Kyrie so whatever point you are trying to make here is invalid.


Irving's numbers are down after career highs playing with LBJ. He flourished because he wasn't relied on to be the best player on his own team. LBJ makes winners out of people. He's magnetic like that. Irving barely averages five assists. Good for Irving that he hit clutch shots after LBJ carried him to the finals. He fulfilled his role. He's doing the same in Boston sometimes. It'll all be for nothing because he's not going anywhere. That's what I mean by irrelevant.

His numbers aren't down. They are at a career high this year. It's important to look at the amount of possessions Cleveland averaged per game last year vs Boston this year if you want to be accurate. Something tells me that's not a priority for you though. :lol:


Nah. I'll stick to believing 25 is larger than 19 or whatever he's at. Next you'll be trying to tell me it's important to look at 8th century geography books when assessing Kyrie's flat Earth theories. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:11 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I am confident. I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving. You should have told me you were related to Irving.

Irving's success the last three years is directly related to LBJ. Wall is a self made man.



Kyrie Irving made 2 all star teams without LeBron James. He also won 33 games with the worst supporting cast in the NBA. That was nothing short of a miracle.


Thanks, Kyrie's dad.



Your Kyrie bashing is one of the weaker takes currently going. They have the best record in the league and they are missing their 2nd best player. I guess your fighting spirit is to be commended.


After Kyrie's first two games as a Celtic they had the worst record in the league. That tells me all I need to know about him.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:13 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Plenty of guys look good next to LBJ.

Historically, the opposite is true. Players numbers tend to go up across the board before and after they are with LeBron.

But Lebron isn't taking those clutch shots for Kyrie so whatever point you are trying to make here is invalid.


Irving's numbers are down after career highs playing with LBJ. He flourished because he wasn't relied on to be the best player on his own team. LBJ makes winners out of people. He's magnetic like that. Irving barely averages five assists. Good for Irving that he hit clutch shots after LBJ carried him to the finals. He fulfilled his role. He's doing the same in Boston sometimes. It'll all be for nothing because he's not going anywhere. That's what I mean by irrelevant.



LeBron cherry picks rosters and makes winners out of teams with the highest payroll in the league. Best thing that happened to him was Hayward becoming injured.


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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:13 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I am confident. I provided those because you said no one you know ever said Wall was better than Irving. You should have told me you were related to Irving.

Irving's success the last three years is directly related to LBJ. Wall is a self made man.



Kyrie Irving made 2 all star teams without LeBron James. He also won 33 games with the worst supporting cast in the NBA. That was nothing short of a miracle.


Thanks, Kyrie's dad.



Your Kyrie bashing is one of the weaker takes currently going. They have the best record in the league and they are missing their 2nd best player. I guess your fighting spirit is to be commended.


After Kyrie's first two games as a Celtic they had the worst record in the league. That tells me all I need to know about him.



Small sample size.


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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:14 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Plenty of guys look good next to LBJ.

Historically, the opposite is true. Players numbers tend to go up across the board before and after they are with LeBron.

But Lebron isn't taking those clutch shots for Kyrie so whatever point you are trying to make here is invalid.


Irving's numbers are down after career highs playing with LBJ. He flourished because he wasn't relied on to be the best player on his own team. LBJ makes winners out of people. He's magnetic like that. Irving barely averages five assists. Good for Irving that he hit clutch shots after LBJ carried him to the finals. He fulfilled his role. He's doing the same in Boston sometimes. It'll all be for nothing because he's not going anywhere. That's what I mean by irrelevant.

His numbers aren't down. They are at a career high this year. It's important to look at the amount of possessions Cleveland averaged per game last year vs Boston this year if you want to be accurate. Something tells me that's not a priority for you though. :lol:


Nah. I'll stick to believing 25 is larger than 19 or whatever he's at. Next you'll be trying to tell me it's important to look at 8th century geography books when assessing Kyrie's flat Earth theories. :lol:

I mean... you're basically saying you're gonna choose to remain willfully ignorant on this for the rest of the discussion. Pretty much conceding the logical side of the argument to ltg and I. Im fine with that I guess.

FWIW, he averaged 25.9 points per 36 min last year, he's at 26.4 this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:14 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Plenty of guys look good next to LBJ.

Historically, the opposite is true. Players numbers tend to go up across the board before and after they are with LeBron.

But Lebron isn't taking those clutch shots for Kyrie so whatever point you are trying to make here is invalid.


Irving's numbers are down after career highs playing with LBJ. He flourished because he wasn't relied on to be the best player on his own team. LBJ makes winners out of people. He's magnetic like that. Irving barely averages five assists. Good for Irving that he hit clutch shots after LBJ carried him to the finals. He fulfilled his role. He's doing the same in Boston sometimes. It'll all be for nothing because he's not going anywhere. That's what I mean by irrelevant.



LeBron cherry picks rosters and makes winners out of teams with the highest payroll in the league. Best thing that happened to him was Hayward becoming injured.


He's the worst I tell ya, I'm with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Historically Bad!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:34 pm 
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The essence of what a good tank job entails.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/1 ... oring-tank


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