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 Post subject: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:23 am 
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Whether you call it the rather Euphemistically soothing "rebuilding" tanking works. Is it a panacea? No but it is much more fruitful than simply piecemealing through season after season of futility. Mind you it's futility masked under the guise of "going for it. Many a franchise has attempted this tried and rather true method for sure fire losing only to discover that they've been on a path to nowhere.

I applaud the Bulls for realizing the error of their ways from last summer. In trading Butler, they decided to go full fledged tank. This is a good time to do it. High level draft prospects on deck necessitated that the move be made and I'm glad they decided to pull the trigger.

In 3 years it will be very apparent that this was the correct move to make.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:27 am 
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Tanking works if you have a competent front office and coaching staff.

I don't believe the Bulls have either.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:34 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Tanking works if you have a competent front office and coaching staff.

I don't believe the Bulls have either.


I still like Paxson as an evaluator of talent. He has missed on a few guys but all GMs do. Even the "great" ones. He has had too many hits in drafting for me to consider him completely incompetent.

I think the one thing I'd be leery of would be his overall world view.

Does he want NBA ready guys or guys with the most upside? His history suggests that he will draft high floor low ceiling guys. If you're going to draft inside of the top3 then you're drafting 19 and 20 year kids with High upside.

He hasn't consistently demonstrated that he is comfortable drafting those sorts of players. Then again he hasn't drafted particularly high all that much either.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:43 am 
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I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:48 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck.


I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:22 am 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck.


I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also.

You're off the Knicks bandwagon now that your Lord and savior Carmelo is gone?

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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:27 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck.


I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also.

You're off the Knicks bandwagon now that your Lord and savior Carmelo is gone?


Can you address how they have gone for it for the better part of 15 years?

Or do you simply think by extracting Carmelo Anthony from the roster they will be contenders?

It will be beautiful to see the hypocritical Melo bashers applaud a .500 team. I'm a Porzingus fan so it isn't about him. The same record that he was bashed for achieving will suddenly be acceptable. Book it.

For the record I've been a lightweight Knicks fan since the days of Bernard King.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:31 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck.


I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also.

You're off the Knicks bandwagon now that your Lord and savior Carmelo is gone?


Can you address how they have gone for it for the better part of 15 years?

Or do you simply think by extracting Carmelo Anthony from the roster they will be contenders?

For the record I've been a lightweight Knicks fan since the days of Bernard King.

The Knicks are not contenders, but they have certainly gotten better. And it's no shock that the Thunder have gotten worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:35 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck.


I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also.

You're off the Knicks bandwagon now that your Lord and savior Carmelo is gone?


Can you address how they have gone for it for the better part of 15 years?

Or do you simply think by extracting Carmelo Anthony from the roster they will be contenders?

For the record I've been a lightweight Knicks fan since the days of Bernard King.

The Knicks are not contenders, but they have certainly gotten better. And it's no shock that the Thunder have gotten worse.


The jury is still out on the Thunder getting worse. Knicks getting better isn't something to celebrate since they stunk. Getting rid of Phil had more to do with it than Melo leaving.

Thunder will still finish with a better record than the Knicks. They will also finish with a better record than last season.

Carmelo Anthony is also the reason they had their best record in 18 years too.

You conveniently omit or ignore that each and every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:04 am 
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The coach is clueless and it is destroying value of young players already here. That is a waste.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:15 am 
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Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity. The Knicks finished with a better record by one game when melo was.around. Irving led the Cavs to 33 wins as a second year player. Irving made the all star team. Who gives a shit about any of that. I bet ltg was offended by Bernstein's "mundane sports achievements" segment.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:27 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity.

If that's true, when's he gonna start a thread about me then?

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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:29 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity. The Knicks finished with a better record by one game when melo was.around. Irving led the Cavs to 33 wins as a second year player. Irving made the all star team. Who gives a shit about any of that. I bet ltg was offended by Bernstein's "mundane sports achievements" segment.



I don't hold star players accountable when they play with talentless rosters. That is the difference between you and I.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity.

If that's true, when's he gonna start a thread about me then?


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Look at the list of the last 30 nba champions and you’ll see it tanking is not the an effective way to build a team. It’s that simple. Anything else is just noise.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:45 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Look at the list of the last 30 nba champions and you’ll see it tanking is not the an effective way to build a team. It’s that simple. Anything else is just noise.


I already established that the Bulls tanked in order to draft Jordan. Few if any teams ever admit to tanking. It's bad P.R. it's also why the term Rebuilding was invented. If I were to state how teams have tanked in order to improve draft position you'll just State that there was no tanking involved.

Regardless of whether tanking existed or not it's well known that teams win with High draft picks. Doesn't matter how they are acquired. You're not winning often without a top 5 pick.

Each team is different. Dynamics are different. Best way for the Bulls to win was to tank. Building around Butler was going to flop. Waiting for big name free agents was going to fliop.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:48 pm 
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The Bulls didn’t tank for Jordan. They got lucky. Thorn didn’t even want him.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanking: It Works
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:01 pm 
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storkinastorm wrote:
The Bulls didn’t tank for Jordan. They got lucky. Thorn didn’t even want him.


Bulls first benched then traded their best player in order to improve their draft position.

21-28 pre Theus trade.

6-27 post Theus trade.

5 game win streak prior to trade. Traded him for a backup journeyman Center. Benched in early Dec. Bulls best player. Started unproven Rookie backcourt in front of him.

I remember it vividly. Tank all the way in order to improve draft position


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