Don Tiny wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity.
If that's true, when's he gonna start a thread about me then?
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| Tanking: It Works http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=109794 |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tanking: It Works |
Whether you call it the rather Euphemistically soothing "rebuilding" tanking works. Is it a panacea? No but it is much more fruitful than simply piecemealing through season after season of futility. Mind you it's futility masked under the guise of "going for it. Many a franchise has attempted this tried and rather true method for sure fire losing only to discover that they've been on a path to nowhere. I applaud the Bulls for realizing the error of their ways from last summer. In trading Butler, they decided to go full fledged tank. This is a good time to do it. High level draft prospects on deck necessitated that the move be made and I'm glad they decided to pull the trigger. In 3 years it will be very apparent that this was the correct move to make. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Tanking works if you have a competent front office and coaching staff. I don't believe the Bulls have either. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Terry's Peeps wrote: Tanking works if you have a competent front office and coaching staff. I don't believe the Bulls have either. I still like Paxson as an evaluator of talent. He has missed on a few guys but all GMs do. Even the "great" ones. He has had too many hits in drafting for me to consider him completely incompetent. I think the one thing I'd be leery of would be his overall world view. Does he want NBA ready guys or guys with the most upside? His history suggests that he will draft high floor low ceiling guys. If you're going to draft inside of the top3 then you're drafting 19 and 20 year kids with High upside. He hasn't consistently demonstrated that he is comfortable drafting those sorts of players. Then again he hasn't drafted particularly high all that much either. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
veganfan21 wrote: I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck. I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also. |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
long time guy wrote: veganfan21 wrote: I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck. I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also. You're off the Knicks bandwagon now that your Lord and savior Carmelo is gone? |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Douchebag wrote: long time guy wrote: veganfan21 wrote: I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck. I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also. You're off the Knicks bandwagon now that your Lord and savior Carmelo is gone? Can you address how they have gone for it for the better part of 15 years? Or do you simply think by extracting Carmelo Anthony from the roster they will be contenders? It will be beautiful to see the hypocritical Melo bashers applaud a .500 team. I'm a Porzingus fan so it isn't about him. The same record that he was bashed for achieving will suddenly be acceptable. Book it. For the record I've been a lightweight Knicks fan since the days of Bernard King. |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
long time guy wrote: Douchebag wrote: long time guy wrote: veganfan21 wrote: I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck. I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also. You're off the Knicks bandwagon now that your Lord and savior Carmelo is gone? Can you address how they have gone for it for the better part of 15 years? Or do you simply think by extracting Carmelo Anthony from the roster they will be contenders? For the record I've been a lightweight Knicks fan since the days of Bernard King. The Knicks are not contenders, but they have certainly gotten better. And it's no shock that the Thunder have gotten worse. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Douchebag wrote: long time guy wrote: Douchebag wrote: long time guy wrote: veganfan21 wrote: I'm sure the 2000 Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, etc. just loved what awaited them after tanking their respective seasons. Drafting is not a skill - it's luck. I'm sure the Knicks have basked in eternal glory during the Past 15 years as they have attempted to "go for it" . I can lump a number of other teams along with them also. You're off the Knicks bandwagon now that your Lord and savior Carmelo is gone? Can you address how they have gone for it for the better part of 15 years? Or do you simply think by extracting Carmelo Anthony from the roster they will be contenders? For the record I've been a lightweight Knicks fan since the days of Bernard King. The Knicks are not contenders, but they have certainly gotten better. And it's no shock that the Thunder have gotten worse. The jury is still out on the Thunder getting worse. Knicks getting better isn't something to celebrate since they stunk. Getting rid of Phil had more to do with it than Melo leaving. Thunder will still finish with a better record than the Knicks. They will also finish with a better record than last season. Carmelo Anthony is also the reason they had their best record in 18 years too. You conveniently omit or ignore that each and every time. |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
The coach is clueless and it is destroying value of young players already here. That is a waste. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity. The Knicks finished with a better record by one game when melo was.around. Irving led the Cavs to 33 wins as a second year player. Irving made the all star team. Who gives a shit about any of that. I bet ltg was offended by Bernstein's "mundane sports achievements" segment. |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
veganfan21 wrote: Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity. If that's true, when's he gonna start a thread about me then? |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
veganfan21 wrote: Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity. The Knicks finished with a better record by one game when melo was.around. Irving led the Cavs to 33 wins as a second year player. Irving made the all star team. Who gives a shit about any of that. I bet ltg was offended by Bernstein's "mundane sports achievements" segment. I don't hold star players accountable when they play with talentless rosters. That is the difference between you and I. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Don Tiny wrote: veganfan21 wrote: Ltg is the king of celebrating mediocrity. If that's true, when's he gonna start a thread about me then?
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Look at the list of the last 30 nba champions and you’ll see it tanking is not the an effective way to build a team. It’s that simple. Anything else is just noise. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
FavreFan wrote: Look at the list of the last 30 nba champions and you’ll see it tanking is not the an effective way to build a team. It’s that simple. Anything else is just noise. I already established that the Bulls tanked in order to draft Jordan. Few if any teams ever admit to tanking. It's bad P.R. it's also why the term Rebuilding was invented. If I were to state how teams have tanked in order to improve draft position you'll just State that there was no tanking involved. Regardless of whether tanking existed or not it's well known that teams win with High draft picks. Doesn't matter how they are acquired. You're not winning often without a top 5 pick. Each team is different. Dynamics are different. Best way for the Bulls to win was to tank. Building around Butler was going to flop. Waiting for big name free agents was going to fliop. |
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| Author: | storkinastorm [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
The Bulls didn’t tank for Jordan. They got lucky. Thorn didn’t even want him. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
storkinastorm wrote: The Bulls didn’t tank for Jordan. They got lucky. Thorn didn’t even want him. Bulls first benched then traded their best player in order to improve their draft position. 21-28 pre Theus trade. 6-27 post Theus trade. 5 game win streak prior to trade. Traded him for a backup journeyman Center. Benched in early Dec. Bulls best player. Started unproven Rookie backcourt in front of him. I remember it vividly. Tank all the way in order to improve draft position |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Bulls going all in on the tank now. http://wgntv.com/2018/02/20/bulls-bench ... -25-games/ |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
You can't have it both ways. You said they had a playoff roster and and then wrote a tribute to Hoiberg after he steered the Bulls into 13th place. Now it's about tanking. Pick a lane. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
veganfan21 wrote: You can't have it both ways. You said they had a playoff roster and and then wrote a tribute to Hoiberg after he steered the Bulls into 13th place. Now it's about tanking. Pick a lane. I've always been down with Tanking. I did have to acknowledge that they were a better team than anticipated even without Lavine however. With a full compliment of players they looked like a playoff team. Mind you we really haven't seen them with but they were close without Lavine. I never wanted them to make the playoffs. |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Yeah, if you tank right, you can be just like the 7th seeded 76ers. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Caller Bob wrote: Yeah, if you tank right, you can be just like the 7th seeded 76ers. Philly has one of the top ten players in the game currently. Budding All Star with Simmons. That occurred because of tanking. The Atlanta Hawks have "gone for it every year since 1980 at least. They've never tanked. They also have only played in 1 conf finals ever. Why? because they rarely have ever drafted in the top 5. Going for it has meant consistently drafting anywhere from 7 to 20. Going for it has meant that they would never be in position to draft a franchise player. Look at their draft position over the years. Very few top 5 picks since 1980. They missed on Paul by drafting Marvin Williams with the 2nd pick but other than that they really haven't been position to do anything. Philly has two franchise guys on their roster due to tanking. It works. |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Bulls management is brain damaged. First they weren't tanking, now they're tanking when it is too late. Looks like about 6-7 great players in the draft and Bulls will probably draft 8th. Another Marcus Fizer prolly. |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
long time guy wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Yeah, if you tank right, you can be just like the 7th seeded 76ers. Philly has one of the top ten players in the game currently. Budding All Star with Simmons. That occurred because of tanking. The Atlanta Hawks have "gone for it every year since 1980 at least. They've never tanked. They also have only played in 1 conf finals ever. Why? because they rarely have ever drafted in the top 5. Going for it has meant consistently drafting anywhere from 7 to 20. Going for it has meant that they would never be in position to draft a franchise player. Look at their draft position over the years. Very few top 5 picks since 1980. They missed on Paul by drafting Marvin Williams with the 2nd pick but other than that they really haven't been position to do anything. Philly has two franchise guys on their roster due to tanking. It works. It hasn't worked yet for Philly. BTW, they shit away 5 other lottery picks that they "tanked" for. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Missing matters. Look at the Hornets. They have had absolute studs picked after them. I trust Paxson to make the correct picks but I don't trust Gar. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Caller Bob wrote: long time guy wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Yeah, if you tank right, you can be just like the 7th seeded 76ers. Philly has one of the top ten players in the game currently. Budding All Star with Simmons. That occurred because of tanking. The Atlanta Hawks have "gone for it every year since 1980 at least. They've never tanked. They also have only played in 1 conf finals ever. Why? because they rarely have ever drafted in the top 5. Going for it has meant consistently drafting anywhere from 7 to 20. Going for it has meant that they would never be in position to draft a franchise player. Look at their draft position over the years. Very few top 5 picks since 1980. They missed on Paul by drafting Marvin Williams with the 2nd pick but other than that they really haven't been position to do anything. Philly has two franchise guys on their roster due to tanking. It works. It hasn't worked yet for Philly. BTW, they shit away 5 other lottery picks that they "tanked" for. Its all relative to which guys are available. Some of those drafts weak as hell. Guys like Noel, MCW, were de fault picks and Philly did right to move them because they weren't in the long term plans. Saric was also a result of tanking. Colangelo is the anti tanking guy and his moves thus far are fucking up the franchise |
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| Author: | Jaw Breaker [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
long time guy wrote: Are they also going to slash ticket prices? |
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| Author: | IMU [ Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Jaw Breaker wrote: long time guy wrote: Are they also going to slash ticket prices? Were you going to see Holiday, Lopez and Grant? |
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| Author: | St. Louis Bull Man [ Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tanking: It Works |
Tanking guarantees NOTHING, except fostering a losing mentality and fans losing interest. IT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT. |
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