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 Post subject: April 2018: It’s time.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:37 pm 
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For Q to go.

Blame StanBo all you want for not being able to restock the D cabinet, or find a solid backup G, but this team should at least be scoring goals.

The effort is not there. There is no sense of urgency. This team has checked out. Q seems to have checked out, too.

Since the 2015 Cup, this team has trended steadily downward. They will miss the playoffs for the first time since Q took over.

Problem is, will the front office eat rhe final two uears of his deal?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 pm 
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No.

It is not on Q that Seabrook has a ridiculous contract, that Toews has taken one too many bong hits, or that Hossa decided to retire instead of playing for $1M.

The young forwards are developing. The young defensemen not named Oesterle all suck ass in various ways.

I do think that Q has to scratch Seabrook more, and i'd even scratch Toews on back to backs.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:50 pm 
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I would scratch Seabs every night. His fat ass could use the time on the cardio equipment anyways.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:52 pm 
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It ain't Q's fault that the blue liners are old fat and bad and can't score and his #1 goalie is a self destructive delinquent and his top center is a underachieving pothead and stuff.
Oh and sharp being a healthy scratch? Yeesh.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 pm 
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I'm fine with Q staying one more year unless it goes in the shitter next year too, at which point he gets launched before the season is over.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 pm 
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I’m. It blaming Q but his system doesn’t look great with this shot show of d men. I’m not sure anyone’s would though. It is not good right now though. Jesus, I gotta take my daughter to a game still. Ugh.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:20 am 
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While it is obviously not 100% his fault, Q definitely needs to go. He has lost the room and cannot adjust to the players he has. Q has proven that he can win cups with Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, and Hossa in their prime with a deep roster that can roll 3 or 4 lines. But he has not adjusted his "style" to the new NHL which is speed, speed, speed. And this year he has shown pettiness over the Hammer trade by scratching one of his best defenders out of spite and he continues to throw lines and pairings together which often don't even make sense. Has he developed a single defensemen in his time with the Hawks? I guess Hammer is the only one.

You could see the writing on the wall last season that Q's time was coming to an end. It would have been a bold move to replace him last season but it's always better to be a year to early than too late. I wish they had but this team does not make bold moves.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:36 pm 
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I do think Q coached himself out of a job the last 2 seasons, but this season....all on the front office. This roster is utter crap


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:18 pm 
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I refuse to say that the window is closed and the dark ages are back until Kane and Crawford are both clearly past their primes. You can still build around those two.

LA was in a funk after the '14 Cup but has bounced back somewhat this year.

Boston collapsed for a while but has likewise bounced back strong.

Even Pittsburgh was somewhat lost in the wilderness earlier this decade culminating with nearly missing the playoffs the year before they won the first of two Cups.

All of them changed coaches. Just something to think about. I'll always love Q for what he did for us, but it's always eventually time to move on.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Rozner made good points earlier today. He compared Pittsburgh as well and how you have to get the newer younger players and actually play them. You can find a way to play with Toews and Keith etc. He said he would not prefer Q goes but Q would have to make a hard commitment to a new way of handling young unproven players.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:01 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Rozner made good points earlier today. He compared Pittsburgh as well and how you have to get the newer younger players and actually play them. You can find a way to play with Toews and Keith etc. He said he would not prefer Q goes but Q would have to make a hard commitment to a new way of handling young unproven players.


The major problem with comparing the Hawks to the Pens is that Crosby and Malkin are better than either Kane and Toews. Crosby was the best player in the world as they won the last two cups. Toews is a shell of his former self. It's is an easy comparison to make but it's not apt.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Well Sidney to Kane at this point is close enough. The larger problem is how far the captain has fallen off so quickly. This is like 2.5 years of crap now.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Correct....Kane and Crawford are still very much worth their contracts, but Toews and Seabrook are major suckage at this point. It will be nearly impossible to deal either of them.

Even if they could deal them and they beefed up a roster of yoots.....there's no way Q will put any confidence in yoots.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:37 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Well Sidney to Kane at this point is close enough. The larger problem is how far the captain has fallen off so quickly. This is like 2.5 years of crap now.


You're right- Kane isn't the problem. But Toews and Kane are still paid 2.7 M more than the Sid and Geno combo. That's a couple more players.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:08 am 
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Tuned in tonight at the beginning of the 3rd, and Foley was saying how the effort tonight has been the best they've seen in the last few weeks, maybe all season...and the Hawks have now given up 3 goals in less than 5 minutes into the period.

Fire everyone, Q first.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:44 am 
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So let's see names.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:10 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
So let's see names.


You talking about coaches? I have no idea. The Pens pulled a guy that was an unknown Hawks assistant a couple years prior. I think I would prefer new blood and ideas over a retread of a coaching dinosaur.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:08 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
So let's see names.


You talking about coaches? I have no idea. The Pens pulled a guy that was an unknown Hawks assistant a couple years prior. I think I would prefer new blood and ideas over a retread of a coaching dinosaur.


Of course fans have no idea. Knowledge about assistant coaches and who's available is a depth of knowledge that 0.1% of fans have. Just because fans don't have an answer doesn't mean that a change shouldn't be made. What is obvious to fans is that Q has done an awful job with this team this year. People always point to 3 Cups but he also has 4 first round exits including last year's fraud of a season, and this year's trainwreck of a season. Let's not forget that when the Hawks won their Cups they had 4 HOF players in their prime or near it and a very deep team overall. And Q blew it against LA in 2014 getting badly outcoached by Sutter. When has Q overachieved with this club?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:11 am 
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I am not sure Q ever overachieved. He also certainly has had some bad moments. The last two years have been bad. He also has not always coached even his cup teams perfectly.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:47 am 
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DAC wrote:
When has Q overachieved with this club?

Maybe the time his team finished sixth but won the Stanley Cup, idk, or the time he took sophomore-season Toews and Kane to the third round.

Virtually all criticism here of Quenneville is useless because it never suggests preferable real-world alternatives. The NHL coach who plays all his kids, runs a crackerjack power play year-in-year-out, and etches his lines in stone DOES NOT EXIST. Bill Peters? He can't get his team out of ninth place (but apparently gets all the tries in the world at it). We do this dance every time. "Fire Q!" "Hire whom?" "duh iunno, you can't expect people to have answers to such advanced questions, just fire Q!"

This is probably the end of the line for him, it's his third strike by the standards of a championship organization, but god damn, to hear it from some people, this guy's who been coaching in the NHL for almost 25 years doesn't have a clue what he's doing and teams only win in spite of him. Good to know.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:51 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I am not sure Q ever overachieved. He also certainly has had some bad moments. The last two years have been bad. He also has not always coached even his cup teams perfectly.


Agreed. I'm not saying that Q hasn't had a great career and he has definitely been a good coach for the Hawks. But I am tired of people blindly pointing at 3 Cups as if Q's infallible and is the reason they won. I definitely give more credit to the team than Q in terms of their Cup wins. He's not the only coach that would have had the those results with this team.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:58 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
DAC wrote:
When has Q overachieved with this club?

Maybe the time his team finished sixth but won the Stanley Cup, idk, or the time he took sophomore-season Toews and Kane to the third round.


Oh please! A 6th place regular season finish? How stacked was that team in the playoffs with a 3rd line of Teuvo/ Vermette/Sharp? They were coming of a WCF trip and Cup win in the previous 2 seasons and were coasting through the regular season. They were not the 6th best team in the West. And 2009 was the beginning. You had an incredibly talented young team that would go on to win 3 Cups. Neither of those were Cinderella runs.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
DAC wrote:
When has Q overachieved with this club?

Maybe the time his team finished sixth but won the Stanley Cup, idk, or the time he took sophomore-season Toews and Kane to the third round.

Virtually all criticism here of Quenneville is useless because it never suggests preferable real-world alternatives. The NHL coach who plays all his kids, runs a crackerjack power play year-in-year-out, and etches his lines in stone DOES NOT EXIST. Bill Peters? He can't get his team out of ninth place (but apparently gets all the tries in the world at it). We do this dance every time. "Fire Q!" "Hire whom?" "duh iunno, you can't expect people to have answers to such advanced questions, just fire Q!"

This is probably the end of the line for him, it's his third strike by the standards of a championship organization, but god damn, to hear it from some people, this guy's who been coaching in the NHL for almost 25 years doesn't have a clue what he's doing and teams only win in spite of him. Good to know.


Exaggeration is never flattering on you.

It's very simple: in most major league sports, it's about two things: 1) results, and 2) what have you done for me, lately? Of course, Q is not 100% to blame - Stan's made some errors in judgement, players are getting older and worn down, no decent backup goaltender. The Saad reacquisition has been frustratingly and shockingly a disaster so far (then again, is Saad that bad, or is Toews bringing him down?). That does not excuse the malaise this team has been in since the beginning of the season (well, after games 1 & 2), the embarrassment of the first-round exit last year, and a first-round exit the year before (although that WAS to the Blues).

Even with the deficiencies at D and a backup G, this team should at least be scoring goals. So far this season, they are 4th-worst in the conference.

It has been 10 seasons - a hell of a tenure with any coach. Q has been in charge of the Cup-winning teams, and that is a great accomplishment that will not be forgotten by Hawks fans, but it looks to me like a change should be on the horizon.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:18 pm 
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DAC wrote:
And 2009 was the beginning. You had an incredibly talented young team that would go on to win 3 Cups. Neither of those were Cinderella runs.

The Hawks were overwhelmingly picked to lose to both Calgary and Vancouver because that was 2009 when everyone still believed Jarome Iginla was going to will the Flames past everyone himself. But the Hawks came on a lot faster than anyone thought and a lot of that had to be in the change from Savard to Quenneville.

Q hasn't "overachieved" by the standards of NHL overachievement because he's never been given a roster with no stars, run a stifling defensive system, and pounced on teams taking the night off over the course of a long season. That's how Dave Tippett, Bob Hartley, Guy Boucher, Gerard Gallant, and others have overachieved in the modern NHL, but it hasn't gotten those guys all that much.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:57 pm 
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You could argue that 2010-11 was overachieving. That team had Tomas Kopecky in the top six forwards and also gave regular ice time to people like Turco, Pisani, Dowell, Skille, Boynton, Cullimore and Scott, yet made the playoffs and came within a fanned shot of knocking off a loaded Vancouver team.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:05 pm 
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I love Q. The veteran play and last 2 playoff appearances were disappointing and lacked energy. I don't fully blame him. He has no horses this year, they all left or are old or disinterested. The PP should have been better the last 7 years. I love him though.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
DAC wrote:
And 2009 was the beginning. You had an incredibly talented young team that would go on to win 3 Cups. Neither of those were Cinderella runs.

The Hawks were overwhelmingly picked to lose to both Calgary and Vancouver because that was 2009 when everyone still believed Jarome Iginla was going to will the Flames past everyone himself. But the Hawks came on a lot faster than anyone thought and a lot of that had to be in the change from Savard to Quenneville.


Who was overwhelmingly picking them? The Canadian press? The Hawks were the higher seed in both the Vancouver and Calgary series and this was even after their poor start. Regardless, that team was young, talented, and deep. History has proven that those were not upsets.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:37 pm 
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I’m not going to say he should be fired but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. It also wouldn’t surprise me if part of Q wouldn’t welcome not being saddled with the albatross contracts that this team has.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:48 pm 
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DAC wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
DAC wrote:
And 2009 was the beginning. You had an incredibly talented young team that would go on to win 3 Cups. Neither of those were Cinderella runs.

The Hawks were overwhelmingly picked to lose to both Calgary and Vancouver because that was 2009 when everyone still believed Jarome Iginla was going to will the Flames past everyone himself. But the Hawks came on a lot faster than anyone thought and a lot of that had to be in the change from Savard to Quenneville.


Who was overwhelmingly picking them? The Canadian press?


Yes. They exist and carry weight. I remember even then arguing on an old message board saying "well, the Hawks seem to be better than the Flames in every aspect other than being from Canada, where the Flames are way ahead" or something like that, and being met with "the Hawks look great so far but they need to learn how to win in the playoffs." Guess they learned fast, lol.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:28 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
DAC wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
DAC wrote:
And 2009 was the beginning. You had an incredibly talented young team that would go on to win 3 Cups. Neither of those were Cinderella runs.

The Hawks were overwhelmingly picked to lose to both Calgary and Vancouver because that was 2009 when everyone still believed Jarome Iginla was going to will the Flames past everyone himself. But the Hawks came on a lot faster than anyone thought and a lot of that had to be in the change from Savard to Quenneville.


Who was overwhelmingly picking them? The Canadian press?


Yes. They exist and carry weight. I remember even then arguing on an old message board saying "well, the Hawks seem to be better than the Flames in every aspect other than being from Canada, where the Flames are way ahead" or something like that, and being met with "the Hawks look great so far but they need to learn how to win in the playoffs." Guess they learned fast, lol.


Just because the Canadian press was either overrating the Flames or underrating the Hawks, it doesn't change the fact that Q didn't lead them on some unlikely, underdog playoff run that year. I thought the Hawks were the better team going into that series. I was unsure against the Canucks and figured they would get handled by Detroit.

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