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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:08 pm 
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This was sort of a big deal at the start of the basketball season. Now that the playoffs have begun i expect to see a number of complaints regarding the number of transfers that play prominent roles for blue blood programs.

https://www.suntimeshighschoolsports.co ... transfers/


Also will be a big deal going forward as IHSA has vowed to crack down on the practice.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:30 pm 
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It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Ole Sonny made his cash.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:46 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Ole Sonny made his cash.


But he also got his kids in college and looked out for them if some of them lost their ways.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.



The transfer game presents an interesting paradox for administrators parents kids and coaches.


There were 4 high profile kids that transferred from Catholic to Public this year. None of the 4 had much going in terms of their recruitment. There weren't a lot of offers if any while they played in the Catholic League. They were all about to be Seniors. The second that they transferred to the Public League their recruitment took off.

One of the kids just signed with Mizzou the other day. The Public League coaches honestly helped insure that these kids would play basketball in college.

They don't want kids to transfer for athletic reasons but what if athletics is the only way a child can attend college?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:57 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Ole Sonny made his cash.


But he also got his kids in college and looked out for them if some of them lost their ways.

You're right.

Paid for Johnny Selvie's attorney and helped insure that he would have some semblance of a nornal life.

When he was involved with sports administration he helped get jobs for a number of ex players


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Morgan Park is the most glaring example of everything that is wrong with HS basketball. Then their coach cries on twitter about how unfair the McDonald's All-American game is because they allow 20 year old held back prep school players. He gets to hide out in 3a so he will probably win state again.

I love how Depaul prep chose to play up so they could avoid Orr. Probably the right decision.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.


I loved Sonny, I just didn't like how he always spun it that it was the white ref's fault when his teams underachieved.

CPS screwed Sonny over by changing King HS' mission and pushing him aside. If he had coached at a place like Evanston, he'd be as revered as Gene P. over at St. Joe.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:13 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Ole Sonny made his cash.


But he also got his kids in college and looked out for them if some of them lost their ways.

You're right.

Paid for Johnny Selvie's attorney and helped insure that he would have some semblance of a nornal life.

When he was involved with sports administration he helped get jobs for a number of ex players


One of my therapists was one of his kids as well, and Cox instilled the belief in most of them to always extend a reasonable hand to others who need it.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.


I loved Sonny, I just didn't like how he always spun it that it was the white ref's fault when his teams underachieved.

CPS screwed Sonny over by changing King HS' mission and pushing him aside. If he had coached at a place like Evanston, he'd be as revered as Gene P. over at St. Joe.


I can appreciate that, but in fairness the fucking IHSA screwed my track team out of a state title. So, while I can't fully agree with him, I understand 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:17 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Morgan Park is the most glaring example of everything that is wrong with HS basketball. Then their coach cries on twitter about how unfair the McDonald's All-American game is because they allow 20 year old held back prep school players. He gets to hide out in 3a so he will probably win state again.

I love how Depaul prep chose to play up so they could avoid Orr. Probably the right decision.


The Irvins get a lot flak and some of it is well deserved. I can point to a number of instances in which they have helped kids, Ayo included. If Ayo would have remained at Westinghouse he never would have been top 30. I'm convinced of that.

In addition is the coach at Westinghouse. He was only there to coach his son. Once his son graduated he quit. They had a 6'6 kid that was easily a Division 1 prospect. He was without a school at the end of his Senior year.

The same can be said for Catbolic School coaches too. For whatever reason their kids aren't heavily recruited. I think it has to do with the lack of marketing that the kids receive when they play in the Catholic League.

Pingatore gets his kids in college but a lot of the other coaches don't.

The Irvins put their kids in college more often than not.

I don't agree with all of their tactics but i love the results.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.


I loved Sonny, I just didn't like how he always spun it that it was the white ref's fault when his teams underachieved.

CPS screwed Sonny over by changing King HS' mission and pushing him aside. If he had coached at a place like Evanston, he'd be as revered as Gene P. over at St. Joe.


But it's telling just how much CPS has screwed up King HS and it's mission in the near term.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Plus Sonny gets props for being a professional musician.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDGCG0YGgLQ


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:27 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.




There were 4 high profile kids that transferred from Catholic to Public this year. None of the 4 had much going in terms of their recruitment. There weren't a lot of offers if any while they played in the Catholic League. They were all about to be Seniors. The second that they transferred to the Public League their recruitment took off.

One of the kids just signed with Mizzou the other day. The Public League coaches honestly helped insure that these kids would play basketball in college.



That's not really true.

Commander picked up offers in July off of AAU.

Chase Adams seemed to have peaked in junior high. Saw he had offers from UIC and Chicago st. He will a state title this year though.

Pinson got a better offer, but was committed to Kent St before he transferred.

Walker had offers from Depaul and U of I as a Soph at St. Joes. Don't think that has changed much since he left.

So I guess one of the four did better.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


long time guy wrote:
(OKC) will be the #2 seed in the West due to these 2 moves. Watch out world.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:40 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Morgan Park is the most glaring example of everything that is wrong with HS basketball. Then their coach cries on twitter about how unfair the McDonald's All-American game is because they allow 20 year old held back prep school players. He gets to hide out in 3a so he will probably win state again.

I love how Depaul prep chose to play up so they could avoid Orr. Probably the right decision.


The Irvins get a lot flak and some of it is well deserved. I can point to a number of instances in which they have helped kids, Ayo included. If Ayo would have remained at Westinghouse he never would have been top 30. I'm convinced of that.

In addition is the coach at Westinghouse. He was only there to coach his son. Once his son graduated he quit. They had a 6'6 kid that was easily a Division 1 prospect. He was without a school at the end of his Senior year.

The same can be said for Catbolic School coaches too. For whatever reason their kids aren't heavily recruited. I think it has to do with the lack of marketing that the kids receive when they play in the Catholic League.

Pingatore gets his kids in college but a lot of the other coaches don't.

The Irvins put their kids in college more often than not.

I don't agree with all of their tactics but i love the results.


I don't think there are very many kids with grades that can play getting passed over regardless of school. The best player in the past decade out of Chicago went to one of the Perspectives and Corliss has a kid going to Iowa St.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


long time guy wrote:
(OKC) will be the #2 seed in the West due to these 2 moves. Watch out world.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:43 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.




There were 4 high profile kids that transferred from Catholic to Public this year. None of the 4 had much going in terms of their recruitment. There weren't a lot of offers if any while they played in the Catholic League. They were all about to be Seniors. The second that they transferred to the Public League their recruitment took off.

One of the kids just signed with Mizzou the other day. The Public League coaches honestly helped insure that these kids would play basketball in college.



That's not really true.

Commander picked up offers in July off of AAU.

Chase Adams seemed to have peaked in junior high. Saw he had offers from UIC and Chicago st. He will a state title this year though.

Pinson got a better offer, but was committed to Kent St before he transferred.

Walker had offers from Depaul and U of I as a Soph at St. Joes. Don't think that has changed much since he left.

So I guess one of the four did better.




Commander didn't receive a single offer while he played at Marist. Definitely not a Division 1 offer. I'm aware of his AAU situation. Very well aware of it. Curie didn't do it but Neither did Marist.

Pinson received a few low major offfers. Those offers were a result of AAU also.

His recruitment took off once he got with Simeon.

All of his offers were a result of AAU prior to Simeon also. Not St. Pats.

I already stated that Pingatore gets his kids in College so Walker is a non starter.

As far as Chase goes he obviously didnt peak if UIC offerred him once he left MC. He had no offers while at MC either.

This despite playing and starting on Varsity for 3 years.

None of the kids that i named received offers as a result of playing for their (Catholic) high school team. That is a problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:03 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.




There were 4 high profile kids that transferred from Catholic to Public this year. None of the 4 had much going in terms of their recruitment. There weren't a lot of offers if any while they played in the Catholic League. They were all about to be Seniors. The second that they transferred to the Public League their recruitment took off.

One of the kids just signed with Mizzou the other day. The Public League coaches honestly helped insure that these kids would play basketball in college.



That's not really true.

Commander picked up offers in July off of AAU.

Chase Adams seemed to have peaked in junior high. Saw he had offers from UIC and Chicago st. He will a state title this year though.

Pinson got a better offer, but was committed to Kent St before he transferred.

Walker had offers from Depaul and U of I as a Soph at St. Joes. Don't think that has changed much since he left.

So I guess one of the four did better.




Commander didn't receive a single offer while he played at Marist. Definitely not a Division 1 offer. I'm aware of his AAU situation. Very well aware of it. Curie didn't do it but Neither did Marist.

Pinson received a few low major offfers. Those offers were a result of AAU also.

His recruitment took off once he got with Simeon.

All of his offers were a result of AAU prior to Simeon also. Not St. Pats.

I already stated that Pingatore gets his kids in College so Walker is a non starter.

As far as Chase goes he obviously didnt peak if UIC offerred him once he left MC. He had no offers while at MC either.

This despite playing and starting on Varsity for 3 years.

None of the kids that i named received offers as a result of playing for their (Catholic) high school team. That is a problem.


AAU is what drives things at all of these places. THT did not blow up until AAU this past Spring and Summer. Not due to his play at Simeon.


Commander received no offers based on his play at Curie. He would have been in the same situation had he been back at Marist.

Pinson has done better, but is it because he looks better playing at Simeon and he ends up getting exposed next year?That has happened to many Simeon players over the past 15 years. I really don't know but will find out a year from now.

Chase Adams was just a guy at Marian. Haven't seen him this year at Orr. Maybe its coaching, maybe its getting past his personal issues or maybe he looks better with the talent they have at Orr.

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


long time guy wrote:
(OKC) will be the #2 seed in the West due to these 2 moves. Watch out world.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:13 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
It's weird how much it seems that the long vilified Sonny Cox gave so much more of a damn about the kids than the current guys do.




There were 4 high profile kids that transferred from Catholic to Public this year. None of the 4 had much going in terms of their recruitment. There weren't a lot of offers if any while they played in the Catholic League. They were all about to be Seniors. The second that they transferred to the Public League their recruitment took off.

One of the kids just signed with Mizzou the other day. The Public League coaches honestly helped insure that these kids would play basketball in college.



That's not really true.

Commander picked up offers in July off of AAU.

Chase Adams seemed to have peaked in junior high. Saw he had offers from UIC and Chicago st. He will a state title this year though.

Pinson got a better offer, but was committed to Kent St before he transferred.

Walker had offers from Depaul and U of I as a Soph at St. Joes. Don't think that has changed much since he left.

So I guess one of the four did better.




Commander didn't receive a single offer while he played at Marist. Definitely not a Division 1 offer. I'm aware of his AAU situation. Very well aware of it. Curie didn't do it but Neither did Marist.

Pinson received a few low major offfers. Those offers were a result of AAU also.

His recruitment took off once he got with Simeon.

All of his offers were a result of AAU prior to Simeon also. Not St. Pats.

I already stated that Pingatore gets his kids in College so Walker is a non starter.

As far as Chase goes he obviously didnt peak if UIC offerred him once he left MC. He had no offers while at MC either.

This despite playing and starting on Varsity for 3 years.

None of the kids that i named received offers as a result of playing for their (Catholic) high school team. That is a problem.


AAU is what drives things at all of these places. THT did not blow up until AAU this past Spring and Summer. Not due to his play at Simeon.


Commander received no offers based on his play at Curie. He would have been in the same situation had he been back at Marist.

Pinson has done better, but is it because he looks better playing at Simeon and he ends up getting exposed next year?That has happened to many Simeon players over the past 15 years. I really don't know but will find out a year from now.

Chase Adams was just a guy at Marian. Haven't seen him this year at Orr. Maybe its coaching, maybe its getting past his personal issues or maybe he looks better with the talent they have at Orr.


If Pinson stays at St. Pats there is no Mizzou. His big time offers came as a result of playing at Simeon. His offers took off after the game against Montverde a few weeks back. St. Pats doesn't play against that level of competition.

AAU helped Commander tremendously but so did his decision to leave Marist.

Chase is a no doubter in terms of what playing at Orr has done for him.

THT was going mid to high major regardless. Michigan State was on him as a junior. AAU helped but he was going mid to high no matter what.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:07 pm 
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MOST kids get offers from playing AAU. Period.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:45 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
MOST kids get offers from playing AAU. Period.


Simply saying period doesn't mean it is true. Unless you have specific examples then you really don't know what you're talking about.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:04 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
MOST kids get offers from playing AAU. Period.


Simply saying period doesn't mean it is true. Unless you have specific examples then you really don't know what you're talking about.



It is true, and I do know what I'm talking about. It's a very short list of big conference scholarship hoops players that don't play AAU.

On a different note, DePaul Academy didn't "choose" to move up to avoid Orr. The IHSA moved them up. Private schools get penalized for winning regionals and sectionals.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:21 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
MOST kids get offers from playing AAU. Period.


Simply saying period doesn't mean it is true. Unless you have specific examples then you really don't know what you're talking about.



It is true, and I do know what I'm talking about. It's a very short list of big conference scholarship hoops players that don't play AAU.

On a different note, DePaul Academy didn't "choose" to move up to avoid Orr. The IHSA moved them up. Private schools get penalized for winning regionals and sectionals.



Every Conf kid plays High School basketball too. My point pertains to where the offers happen to originate from. Conns correctly pointed out that Pinson received his first from playing in AAU. My point is that none came from him playing at St. Patrick. The big time offers also didn't come from playing AAU either. The majority didn't come from AAU either.



Chase Adams Didn't receive one offer after playing AAU and Varsity at MC for three years. Plays for Lou Adams for two months and UIC comes a calling.

Commander did take off from AAU but received nothing from Marist.


This doesn't even begin to account for all of the D2 D3 NAIA level kids that rely heavily upon their high school coaches to find scholarships for them.

If you aren't playing big time AAU ball which in Illinois means the Fire and Meanstreets at the top or middle Wolves then chances are you're going to have difficulty finding a scholarship playing AAU.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:38 am 
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to what do you attribute it, ltg?

Is it experienced coaches who think of it as part of their job to seek out college offers? Is it the competition in the conference? Is it the exposure of the name brand programs?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:49 am 
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Seacrest wrote:

On a different note, DePaul Academy didn't "choose" to move up to avoid Orr. The IHSA moved them up. Private schools get penalized for winning regionals and sectionals.



Depaul prep chose to move up.

http://www.ihsa.org/NewsMedia/Announcem ... inals.aspx


2. The Board heard a report on schools who have filed waivers to play up a State Series classification. All waivers require a two-year commitment. The schools, sports, new class, and applicable years on each waiver are listed below:
School Sport New Class Years
Chicago (DePaul College Prep) Boys Basketball 3A 2017-18 & 2018-19
Chicago (Phillips) Football 5A 2017-18 & 2018-19
East St. Louis (H.S.) Football 7A 2017-18 & 2018-19

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


long time guy wrote:
(OKC) will be the #2 seed in the West due to these 2 moves. Watch out world.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:14 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

On a different note, DePaul Academy didn't "choose" to move up to avoid Orr. The IHSA moved them up. Private schools get penalized for winning regionals and sectionals.



Depaul prep chose to move up.

http://www.ihsa.org/NewsMedia/Announcem ... inals.aspx


2. The Board heard a report on schools who have filed waivers to play up a State Series classification. All waivers require a two-year commitment. The schools, sports, new class, and applicable years on each waiver are listed below:
School Sport New Class Years
Chicago (DePaul College Prep) Boys Basketball 3A 2017-18 & 2018-19
Chicago (Phillips) Football 5A 2017-18 & 2018-19
East St. Louis (H.S.) Football 7A 2017-18 & 2018-19


Thanks for the correction to my mistake.

It's news to their freshman hoops coach though. :lol:

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good dolphin wrote:
to what do you attribute it, ltg?

Is it experienced coaches who think of it as part of their job to seek out college offers? Is it the competition in the conference? Is it the exposure of the name brand programs?


I don't think that the Catholic School coaches work as hard to get the kids in school. They aren't as hands on.

I also think it has something to do with Competition. The Catholic League has been down the past 2 or 3 years at least. Xavier Pinson received multiple (GeorgeTown,Mizzou, a few others) after playing against the No. 1 team in the country. Win it comes to basketball the Chicago Public League is king in Illinois.

It is easier to evaluate a kid if he is matched up against high level competition.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:28 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

On a different note, DePaul Academy didn't "choose" to move up to avoid Orr. The IHSA moved them up. Private schools get penalized for winning regionals and sectionals.



Depaul prep chose to move up.

http://www.ihsa.org/NewsMedia/Announcem ... inals.aspx


2. The Board heard a report on schools who have filed waivers to play up a State Series classification. All waivers require a two-year commitment. The schools, sports, new class, and applicable years on each waiver are listed below:
School Sport New Class Years
Chicago (DePaul College Prep) Boys Basketball 3A 2017-18 & 2018-19
Chicago (Phillips) Football 5A 2017-18 & 2018-19
East St. Louis (H.S.) Football 7A 2017-18 & 2018-19



Yeah I don't where we got that Info from. Kleinschmidt from what I understood felt he'd have a deeper run if he moved up.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:00 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

On a different note, DePaul Academy didn't "choose" to move up to avoid Orr. The IHSA moved them up. Private schools get penalized for winning regionals and sectionals.



Depaul prep chose to move up.

http://www.ihsa.org/NewsMedia/Announcem ... inals.aspx


2. The Board heard a report on schools who have filed waivers to play up a State Series classification. All waivers require a two-year commitment. The schools, sports, new class, and applicable years on each waiver are listed below:
School Sport New Class Years
Chicago (DePaul College Prep) Boys Basketball 3A 2017-18 & 2018-19
Chicago (Phillips) Football 5A 2017-18 & 2018-19
East St. Louis (H.S.) Football 7A 2017-18 & 2018-19



Yeah I don't where we got that Info from. Kleinschmidt from what I understood felt he'd have a deeper run if he moved up.


Got to know him a little bit when I coached his neice in AAU. He has never been one to shy away from competition.

Depaul's pretty stacked going forward. Their freshman front line went 6'7, 6'6 and 6'4.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

On a different note, DePaul Academy didn't "choose" to move up to avoid Orr. The IHSA moved them up. Private schools get penalized for winning regionals and sectionals.



Depaul prep chose to move up.

http://www.ihsa.org/NewsMedia/Announcem ... inals.aspx


2. The Board heard a report on schools who have filed waivers to play up a State Series classification. All waivers require a two-year commitment. The schools, sports, new class, and applicable years on each waiver are listed below:
School Sport New Class Years
Chicago (DePaul College Prep) Boys Basketball 3A 2017-18 & 2018-19
Chicago (Phillips) Football 5A 2017-18 & 2018-19
East St. Louis (H.S.) Football 7A 2017-18 & 2018-19



Yeah I don't where we got that Info from. Kleinschmidt from what I understood felt he'd have a deeper run if he moved up.


Got to know him a little bit when I coached his neice in AAU. He has never been one to shy away from competition.

Depaul's pretty stacked going forward. Their freshman front line went 6'7, 6'6 and 6'4.



You cannot move up unless you apply for it though.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:03 pm 
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The old multiplier rule has changed.

If you are a private school that wins regionals, you may eventually be moved up a class. The IHSA has what they call a Success factor.

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