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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:03 pm 
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:lol: :lol: YOu are gonna have to steal a ton of concerts from the UC to make this profitable.


Analysis: DePaul arena plan raises more questions than it answers


Mayor Rahm Emanuel apparently feels free to build a new basketball home for DePaul University after nailing down the “framework” agreement on signage and night games that will pave the way for the Cubs to renovate Wrigley Field and the land around it.

But, that doesn’t settle the political debate about whether it’s wise to use $100 million in public money to build an arena for 18 games a year for a school now decades removed from its days as a college basketball powerhouse.
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Marc Ganis, a Chicago-based sports business consultant, said he’s “stunned” by the mayor’s decision. A domed stadium attached to a convention center makes sense, he said. A basketball arena attached to McCormick Place is financial folly, he said.

“There’s not a single example around the country where the two go together, much less go together successfully,” said Ganis, who has worked on two dozen successful sports facility developments, including the new Yankee Stadium.

“Not only is it ridiculous having an 18-event anchor tenant, but it’s an anchor tenant that can barely sell 10,000 seats a game. It’s not like it’s a professional sports team or a well-established college basketball power. It’s neither of those two. That’s why there has to be something else going on. Because on its face, it’s a foolish proposition.”

Ganis said it’s not just capital costs that need to be considered. Arenas cost money to operate and maintain on an annual basis.

“We’re not talking about a couple million dollars. We’re talking about well over $10 million to operate a first- class arena in a union environment. That’s every year. People shouldn’t think it’s just capital costs,” he said.

Ganis said he’s waiting for the other shoe to drop.

“This is so foolish on its face, there has to be something else going on here. The only thought I have is, maybe it’s tied to the casino plan. Casinos and arenas make sense because they can be used to bring in gamblers,” he said.

Earlier this year, DePaul turned down a ten-year, rent-free offer to move the Blue Demons basketball to the United Center in favor of pursuing Emanuel’s plan to build a new basketball arena near McCormick Place.

Local Ald. Bob Fioretti (2nd) said then he was dead-set against the idea.

“Taxpayer money to build a stadium for 18 games? Somebody’s got to have a hole in their head to be proposing that,” Fioretti said at the time.

“There’s resistance to helping the Cubs, a team that generates $17 million-a-year in amusement tax revenue and supports all of the businesses surrounding Wrigley Field. There’s no claim for financial assistance there. Yet, here we are helping a private institution create a place to play for a very limited number of games. What will it generate?”

Fioretti said land around McCormick Place would be better used to build “several small hotels, invest in the tourism trade and get those 5,000-to-10,000-member shows on a much more regular basis.”

The alderman scoffed at suggestions that McCormick Place has excess bonding capacity that could be used to build a basketball arena.

“That’s still taxpayers’ money in tough economic times,” he said.

Fioretti could not be reached for comment on reports that a mayoral announcement was imminent.

Cubs spokesman Julian Green laughed, but refused to comment when asked how he felt about DePaul getting a public subsidy from the mayor when the Cubs could not.

Emanuel apparently feels free to announce the DePaul project after nailing down the “framework” agreement with the Cubs.

Cubs Chairman Tom Ricketts has offered to bankroll a $300 million Wrigley renovation without a public subsidy — and build a $200 million hotel and office building adjacent to the stadium — if the city lifts restrictions on signage and night games and allows street fairs on game days.

But, until Emanuel agreed to let the Cubs play up to 46 night games per season and build a 6,000-square-foot video scoreboard in left-field, a 1,000-square-foot see-through sign in right-field and 35,000 square feet of signage outside the ballpark, it would be have been very difficult to justify building a taxpayer-subsidized arena for DePaul for 18 homes basketball games.

Now that the Cubs are well on their way to getting what they want, DePaul is apparently next in line. Waiting in the wings are the Bulls.

The Bulls are building a new $25 million practice center on a United Center parking lot without a subsidy. But, their plans to build a $95 million retail and entertainment complex nearby are contingent on nailing down a modified version of the property tax formula that has saved the Bulls and Hawks millions on property tax bills assessed against the United Center.

The tax break is due to expire in 2016. It includes a complex formula that ties United Center property taxes to stadium revenues, with a $1 million-a-year minimum. The UC’s most recent property tax bill was $2.5 million.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:38 pm 
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The Bulls are building a new $25 million practice center on a United Center parking lot without a subsidy. But, their plans to build a $95 million retail and entertainment complex nearby are contingent on nailing down a modified version of the property tax formula that has saved the Bulls and Hawks millions on property tax bills assessed against the United Center.

City of Chicago Tax Money for Jerry...Keep it coming! How does he do it?

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Big Jim Thompson said it best-"Jerry's a tough negotiator"


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:13 am 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Big Jim Thompson said it best-"Jerry's a tough negotiator"


"I asked, he said No, what else did you want me to do?" I think was the quote when MH asked Thompson about getting some of the revenue from the Bacardi at the park of which the state paid for.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:22 am 
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How can this possibly fly? There should be a taxpayer revolt with thousands of people lining up outside Holtschneider's office and on Emanuel's front lawn. Maybe they should give DePaul a free Gibson's too. God knows Steve Lombardo and a bunch of Vincentian priests could use the money.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:05 pm 
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A big waste of taxpayer money. DePaul should build their new arena near their Lincoln Park campus, not where people are going to bitch about traffic near McCormick Place. Big mistake!


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:38 pm 
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They think young adults from Lincoln Park are going to travel through the ghetto, to get to a ghetto, to watch a crap basketball team?

I don't think so

Yes, the south loop is the ghetto


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Bud Dude wrote:
They think young adults from Lincoln Park are going to travel through the ghetto, to get to a ghetto, to watch a crap basketball team?

I don't think so

Yes, the south loop is the ghetto

:roll: x infinite

And I even think this stadium is a bad idea.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:47 pm 
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The South Loop isn't a ghetto, but it's still a ridiculous place for an arena no one needs.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:16 pm 
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If run well there is no reason it could not see the same shows that are at the Horizon/AllState.

Especially if attached to a casino.

This is not about DePaul as many here are saying, it is an event center in the city not privately controlled.

Notice a "Private" hotel will also be built....with then a "casino?"

While I understand the questions, the ability to maximize the facility is the question here. This could GENERATE some good revenue for the city, if done correctly. When I say "correctrly" it means really booking shows/games/etc and not getting some relative of a Daley to sit on his ass and do 6 shows a year. EXACTLY like the Arie Crown who has 1 shows every 2 months.

And the South Loop is not the Ghetto. While I dont think it is the amazing urban development many who live there think it is, but it is far from the Ghetto. One major issue is a lack of businesses in the area, especially for the population.

Also, DePaul does need to become competitive for this to work. I do still question that as long as Jean Ponseto, who does the work of the clergy at DePaul is ruining the place and is willing to do the "Demons" work with some "gifts".

Ruining=running thought it was appropriate

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:22 pm 
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City will probably screw it up so shows don't come like at McCormick with trade shows. Have to wait for 4 hours for an 80/hr guy to plug in a pc for your display. Fuck them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:34 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
City will probably screw it up so shows don't come like at McCormick with trade shows. Have to wait for 4 hours for an 80/hr guy to plug in a pc for your display. Fuck them.


No doubt this has been a HUGE issue. Rahm just hired a new guy to get shows into chicago and remember the guy who DID NOT ASK FOR UNION SUPPORT when he ran for Mayor.

The city has lost some shows to Vegas, Orlando...which are nice...but add in the Union Bullshit as well...has cost the city big time!

A lawyer friend of mine represented one of the top 5 largest shows in Chicago and basically, they got harassed by the fire marshall about how much product they had at their display, he said most had to be in storage and of course anything more than a box of product had to be brought to the display vi a union guy at overtime rates.

The show promoter estimated it cost the participants about $30K in "moving" fees and chose not to renew his deal with Chicago and moved to Vegas. Sure the guy could afford it, but he felt it was just harassment and not one person at City Hall helped him. So the city lost a show that drew thousands to the city over this issue.

Even the Auto show, which I think is the biggest show, really sucked! It was terrible! Cars locked, very few people promoting the cars. Outside of the Jeep display, not impressive and this is the big show in the city?>

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:42 pm 
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I believe in unions, but the horror stories that come out of McCormick Place, and are they ever legion, are a serious problem. The electricians' union threatening to stage a walkout because you unplugged your own laptop, fuck that. Restoring the convention industry is a much higher priority than a redundant sports palace.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I believe in unions, but the horror stories that come out of McCormick Place, and are they ever legion, are a serious problem. The electricians' union threatening to stage a walkout because you unplugged your own laptop, fuck that. Restoring the convention industry is a much higher priority than a redundant sports palace.



This

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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:40 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I believe in unions, but the horror stories that come out of McCormick Place, and are they ever legion, are a serious problem. The electricians' union threatening to stage a walkout because you unplugged your own laptop, fuck that. Restoring the convention industry is a much higher priority than a redundant sports palace.


do you think this is a Sox deal? The facility will be used for conventions and other events. It's 12-18 dates a year for DePaul.

Maybe the thread shouldnt be titled $100 mill for Depaul.

City HS championship now has a new home

and better yet, maybe someone at the city creates a Chicago/ILL mini tourney, as they do in Philly.

CH just flat out saying it cant work is just foolish when a similar facility (Allstate Arena) does so well, they did a small offshoot of it.

It really does rely upon one thing and that is the management of the facility.

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 10:17 am 
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bigfan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I believe in unions, but the horror stories that come out of McCormick Place, and are they ever legion, are a serious problem. The electricians' union threatening to stage a walkout because you unplugged your own laptop, fuck that. Restoring the convention industry is a much higher priority than a redundant sports palace.


do you think this is a Sox deal? The facility will be used for conventions and other events. It's 12-18 dates a year for DePaul.

Maybe the thread shouldnt be titled $100 mill for Depaul.

City HS championship now has a new home

and better yet, maybe someone at the city creates a Chicago/ILL mini tourney, as they do in Philly.

CH just flat out saying it cant work is just foolish when a similar facility (Allstate Arena) does so well, they did a small offshoot of it.

It really does rely upon one thing and that is the management of the facility.


What are the chances the management would come in and keep the unions from abusing and running off potential tenants like they have at McCormick place?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:55 am 
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bigfan wrote:
City of Chicago Tax Money for Jerry...Keep it coming! How does he do it?

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By taking Euro's instead of dollars?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:56 am 
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It was an unforgettable moment when a tearful Jerry Reinsdorf was presented with a eur--okay I'll stop now

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:59 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
It was an unforgettable moment when a tearful Jerry Reinsdorf was presented with a eur--okay I'll stop now


No, keep going. I've always wondered about the proper way to celebrate a successful business deal.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:00 pm 
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You know who closes.business.deals in real life? John McDonough. Look at all the deals for sponsorships and local broadcast rights he closed. Couldn't have done all this without ya, Cub guy!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
You know who closes.business.deals in real life? John McDonough. Look at all the deals for sponsorships and local broadcast rights he closed. Couldn't have done all this without ya, Cub guy!


How is he able to do that without the help of a connected black guy like Julian Green?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:26 pm 
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close to 250,000 SF now being privately developed within walking distance to this terrible facility for various uses by PRIVATE money for Businesses to move into and create a tax base. 70,000 Sf building closes last week, being converted.

This is the CORRECT usage of Government funds to SPURN development and Businesses. Is there kickbacks in there, I am sure there is...it's just the evil cost of doing business in this city, but in 20 years that will be a thriving area of the cities expansion.

Imagine if a certain team just paid a LITTLE money and moved there.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:21 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
This is the CORRECT usage of Government funds to SPURN development and Businesses.


um...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:48 pm 
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Happy with SPUR then?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:06 pm 
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Quote:

Imagine if a certain team just paid a LITTLE money and moved there.


YES!

80,000 Seat stadium. The Halas Dome! Get a Super Bowl and Final Four, Big Ten Football Championship. Tell the Park District to go fuck themselves and count the money!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:20 pm 
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I can't think of a single indoor football field that looks like a pleasant place to watch a game. St. Louis and Indianapolis (old and new) seem particularly dismal.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:28 pm 
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Went to Ford Field last year for Bears-Lions. Crowd noise was great, huge outdoor deck to go in and out of freely. Everybody got stoned at halftime and the crowd wasn't so loud during the second half. Lol.

Plenty of bathrooms, and spacious concourse around the stands. Cheap tickets and a good time. Only bad thing was the corny ass, 1950's Lions touchdown song that makes "Beardown, Chicago Bears" seem like fucking Shakespeare.

Would definitely go back.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:40 pm 
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I've been to Atlanta, Phoenix, and Detroit.

Detroit was like a mall that was only half finished. It was nice enough but pretty sterile.
Phoenix was really nice on the inside, but the outside is atrocious.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:44 pm 
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Whatever its real-life faults may be, Ralph Wilson Stadium televises extremely well. Games there on clear autumn days are just like "damn, that right there is football."

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This, on the other hand, sucks. I want the Rams out of St. Louis just so there are no more NFL games staged at this dumpy convention center.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:46 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
close to 250,000 SF now being privately developed within walking distance to this terrible facility for various uses by PRIVATE money for Businesses to move into and create a tax base. 70,000 Sf building closes last week, being converted.

This is the CORRECT usage of Government funds to SPURN development and Businesses. Is there kickbacks in there, I am sure there is...it's just the evil cost of doing business in this city, but in 20 years that will be a thriving area of the cities expansion.

Imagine if a certain team just paid a LITTLE money and moved there.

So what was the point of the arena if there was all this private money that couldn't wait to be invested? I don't see how the arena was the "game changer".


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