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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:49 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
I guess it would have to be him, Aguirre, or Strickland (as you suggested). Strickland seems to be the best bet since it looks like he's really trying to move up the coaching ranks.


Yeah, I'd like to see Strickland. He's obviously been around the big time as a Calipari assistant. Corbin is really an NBA guy. Aguirre has no experience. I could see DePaul going for Kleinschmidt though. The Chicago neighborhood kid. Rebuilding this mess is gonna be a lot tougher than putting Gordon/DePaul back on the map.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:22 am 
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You can scratch Ben Howland, if you actually considered him a possibility:

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
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Hire a longtime Chicago HS coach that could recruit local product.



They've had Dildy and an Irvin there. They never recruited shit.


Dildy was an assistant under Pat Kennedy, who had one monster recruiting class (Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Lance Williams) and one or two more good to very good classes.


Yeah, Dildy was on Kennedy's staff, wasn't he? I'm not sure he was the guy behind bringing those guys in though. Kennedy had a lot going on.



Tracy Dildy was the guy behind all of their recruitment. Four of the guys he recruited (Richardson) (Simmons) (Paul McPherson) and (Andre Brown) each made it to the NBA. Depaul during those yrs had some of the best better recruiting classes in the country. Dildy was among the higher paid assistants at the time and he def. was responsible for delivering those players.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:27 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Tracy Dildy was the guy behind all of their recruitment. Four of the guys he recruited (Richardson) (Simmons) (Paul McPherson) and (Andre Brown) each made it to the NBA. Depaul during those yrs had some of the best better recruiting classes in the country. Dildy was among the higher paid assistants at the time and he def. was responsible for delivering those players.


Didn't Dildy recruit Stephen Hunter, too? He was a lottery pick.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:30 pm 
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All those guys and the teams weren't really too great.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:33 pm 
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I forgot about Hunter. Thats five NBA players. Depaul should have been better and you can't fault the recruiting. Brown and Quentin Richardson were McDonald's All Americans. Kennedy got exposed as a bad coach. They made the tournament but their team should have been better.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:36 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Tracy Dildy was the guy behind all of their recruitment. Four of the guys he recruited (Richardson) (Simmons) (Paul McPherson) and (Andre Brown) each made it to the NBA. Depaul's recruiting were amongst the best in the country. Dildy was among the highest paid assistants at the time and he def. was responsible for delivering those players.


Didn't Dildy recruit Stephen Hunter, too? He was a lottery pick.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:42 pm 
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You forgot about Lance Williams. I don't doubt that Dildy reestablished DePaul's Public League connections, but I'm sure I've heard both Simmons and Richardson say that the players pretty much came up with the idea to all attend DePaul together on their own. The fact is they underachieved and Kennedy got run out of town. If you're gonna get real greasy, you better win.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:52 pm 
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Lance Williams and even Imari Sawyer was good his freshman yr. Dildy was able to provide access for Kennedy. His public league connections were well established. That is important if you are going to recruit in Chicago. You need guys that will be able to get in the gym. You have to have guys that have established relationships. Dildy was that guy for Depaul. The yr. They came out of high school was one the best yrs. ever in terms of Illinois high school talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:59 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Lance Williams and even Imari Sawyer was good his freshman yr. Dildy was able to provide access for Kennedy. His public league connections were well established. That is important if you are going to recruit in Chicago. You need guys that will be able to get in the gym. You have to have guys that have established relationships. Dildy was that guy for Depaul. The yr. They came out of high school was one the best yrs. ever in terms of Illinois high school talent.


Yeah, but times are different now. AAU coaches have more power than the high school coaches and the shoe companies have input into where the really big guys wind up.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:09 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Lance Williams and even Imari Sawyer was good his freshman yr. Dildy was able to provide access for Kennedy. His public league connections were well established. That is important if you are going to recruit in Chicago. You need guys that will be able to get in the gym. You have to have guys that have established relationships. Dildy was that guy for Depaul. The yr. They came out of high school was one the best yrs. ever in terms of Illinois high school talent.


Yeah, but times are different now. AAU coaches have more power than the high school coaches and the shoe companies have input into where the really big guys wind up.
The families of these kids often wield the real power. The NBA caliber kids have known from an early age that they were good. You look at kids like Parker Okafor Rose Davis it was their family that ran the show. No AAU team was going to control those situations. They played AAU but the recruiting aspect was controlled by the parents. Even Alexander's recruitment was controlled by his parents.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:25 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Lance Williams and even Imari Sawyer was good his freshman yr. Dildy was able to provide access for Kennedy. His public league connections were well established. That is important if you are going to recruit in Chicago. You need guys that will be able to get in the gym. You have to have guys that have established relationships. Dildy was that guy for Depaul. The yr. They came out of high school was one the best yrs. ever in terms of Illinois high school talent.


Yeah, but times are different now. AAU coaches have more power than the high school coaches and the shoe companies have input into where the really big guys wind up.


This is where the lining of the pockets etc happens now. Nike and AAU grease have made the kissing of the Landon Cox's of the world obsolete.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:07 pm 
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The money goes to the parents or the family members. AAU coaches get theirs no doubt about it but the parents of the kids are being taken of also. The parents of today are a lot more involved than they used to be. Cox used to act as a father figure for a lot of his players. There were no fathers in the home and he was able to take advantage of largely ignorant women. Reggie Rose and Sonny Parker in particular were knowledgeable about the process and they were not going to let people get a handle on their kid/sibling. Okafor also. His dad is an educated guy and Emeka Okafor is a cousin of his and I'm sure he has schooled him on the process. That is one of the biggest differences that I see. The parents are being taken care of financially also. Much more so than in the past.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:11 pm 
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The more educated the parents the better they are at taking advantage of the situation and I see no problem with it, good for them. The only rule they are breaking is that of the NCAA...which is clueless or just wishes to look the other way....Duke?

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:18 pm 
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They are definitely looking the other way. I love when college analysts say this guy or that guy is "doing it the right way". They all cheat. You're not going to consistently get #1 or top 5 type players without cheating. The same 3 teams always appear on the top guys list. That isn't by accident.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:20 pm 
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They just have proxies now. Coach K or anyone never speaks/emails/texts the guy that pays the AAU coach and parent.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:30 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
They just have proxies now. Coach K or anyone never speaks/emails/texts the guy that pays the AAU coach and parent.



The Boosters at the big time schools are usually ready to roll. The shoe companies are on board always and it simply comes down to the coach and whether he is ready to pull the trigger. You here things depending on who you talk to but one of the reasons that lesser programs remain lesser is because some of the coaches are unwilling to pull the trigger. Coaches from lesser programs do not believe that they will be protected like Coach K or Calipari. Thus they are reluctant.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:35 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
They are definitely looking the other way. I love when college analysts say this guy or that guy is "doing it the right way". They all cheat. You're not going to consistently get #1 or top 5 type players without cheating. The same 3 teams always appear on the top guys list. That isn't by accident.


Yep. That goes all the way back to St. John Wooden who didn't want to know about all the grease Sam Gilbert was rolling around in with his players.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:47 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
They are definitely looking the other way. I love when college analysts say this guy or that guy is "doing it the right way". They all cheat. You're not going to consistently get #1 or top 5 type players without cheating. The same 3 teams always appear on the top guys list. That isn't by accident.


Yep. That goes all the way back to St. John Wooden who didn't want to know about all the grease Sam Gilbert was rolling around in with his players.


That was quite a migration for Alcindor.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:26 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Coaches from lesser programs do not believe that they will be protected like Coach K or Calipari. Thus they are reluctant.
This is one of the major reasons that DePaul has no shot to be good by recruiting Chicago. Even if it works, they'll get slapped down so fast the players likely wouldn't be there by the tournament.

If I'm DePaul, I concentrate on the areas from Chicago to Indianapolis to St. Louis. There are plenty of kids from those areas that would love to go to Chicago and they don't have the same systems you have to control. I'll simply bring up Purdue because it is what I know but they pretty much avoid Chicago unless there is a major connection to the school like Kendall Stephens. They seem more interested in Ohio than Chicago even though it's only a 2 hour drive away. If a close Big Ten school thought they could build a winner with Chicago kids they'd be doing it.

It's just like Illinois. They worry way too much about Chicago. They should dominate from south of I-80 to St. Louis. Instead, they chase the next Cliff Alexander because the fans want every coach to act like Chicago is the golden goose. Target kids with an Illinois connection in Chicago but get the best non-Chicago players in the state and I think you'll do pretty well.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:42 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Coaches from lesser programs do not believe that they will be protected like Coach K or Calipari. Thus they are reluctant.
This is one of the major reasons that DePaul has no shot to be good by recruiting Chicago. Even if it works, they'll get slapped down so fast the players likely wouldn't be there by the tournament.

If I'm DePaul, I concentrate on the areas from Chicago to Indianapolis to St. Louis. There are plenty of kids from those areas that would love to go to Chicago and they don't have the same systems you have to control. I'll simply bring up Purdue because it is what I know but they pretty much avoid Chicago unless there is a major connection to the school like Kendall Stephens. They seem more interested in Ohio than Chicago even though it's only a 2 hour drive away. If a close Big Ten school thought they could build a winner with Chicago kids they'd be doing it.

It's just like Illinois. They worry way too much about Chicago. They should dominate from south of I-80 to St. Louis. Instead, they chase the next Cliff Alexander because the fans want every coach to act like Chicago is the golden goose. Target kids with an Illinois connection in Chicago but get the best non-Chicago players in the state and I think you'll do pretty well.


I was just having this conversation Sunday night. DePaul does everything ass backward. They built the program on Chicago kids in the 70s and then somewhat abandoned Chicago to "go national", alienating Cox and Hambric. And now when they should abandon Chicago they chase pipedreams like Jabari Parker.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:40 am 
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I would love to know how much money is funneled to kids who do not leave early when its obvious they are a top ten pick. Then again maybe some like being in college and taking online classes like Johnny Football did.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:13 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Coaches from lesser programs do not believe that they will be protected like Coach K or Calipari. Thus they are reluctant.
This is one of the major reasons that DePaul has no shot to be good by recruiting Chicago. Even if it works, they'll get slapped down so fast the players likely wouldn't be there by the tournament.

If I'm DePaul, I concentrate on the areas from Chicago to Indianapolis to St. Louis. There are plenty of kids from those areas that would love to go to Chicago and they don't have the same systems you have to control. I'll simply bring up Purdue because it is what I know but they pretty much avoid Chicago unless there is a major connection to the school like Kendall Stephens. They seem more interested in Ohio than Chicago even though it's only a 2 hour drive away. If a close Big Ten school thought they could build a winner with Chicago kids they'd be doing it.

It's just like Illinois. They worry way too much about Chicago. They should dominate from south of I-80 to St. Louis. Instead, they chase the next Cliff Alexander because the fans want every coach to act like Chicago is the golden goose. Target kids with an Illinois connection in Chicago but get the best non-Chicago players in the state and I think you'll do pretty well.


I was just having this conversation Sunday night. DePaul does everything ass backward. They built the program on Chicago kids in the 70s and then somewhat abandoned Chicago to "go national", alienating Cox and Hambric. And now when they should abandon Chicago they chase pipedreams like Jabari Parker.


That's not what happened.

CPS coaches were very unhappy about how Teddy Grubbs was handled.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997 ... bbs-depaul


According to former DePaul assistant coach Robert Collins, a onetime Public League coach, the school was unfairly blamed for Grubbs' problems.

"DePaul has always been very protective of its young men," said Collins, currently Northern Illinois' associate athletic director. "The school was actually the first one to understand Grubbs' problems and to try to help him. Teddy Grubbs' problems did not begin when he went to DePaul."

But the perception remained, along with a change in the mind-set of the high school stars. More and more started going away to school.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:40 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Coaches from lesser programs do not believe that they will be protected like Coach K or Calipari. Thus they are reluctant.
This is one of the major reasons that DePaul has no shot to be good by recruiting Chicago. Even if it works, they'll get slapped down so fast the players likely wouldn't be there by the tournament.

If I'm DePaul, I concentrate on the areas from Chicago to Indianapolis to St. Louis. There are plenty of kids from those areas that would love to go to Chicago and they don't have the same systems you have to control. I'll simply bring up Purdue because it is what I know but they pretty much avoid Chicago unless there is a major connection to the school like Kendall Stephens. They seem more interested in Ohio than Chicago even though it's only a 2 hour drive away. If a close Big Ten school thought they could build a winner with Chicago kids they'd be doing it.

It's just like Illinois. They worry way too much about Chicago. They should dominate from south of I-80 to St. Louis. Instead, they chase the next Cliff Alexander because the fans want every coach to act like Chicago is the golden goose. Target kids with an Illinois connection in Chicago but get the best non-Chicago players in the state and I think you'll do pretty well.


I was just having this conversation Sunday night. DePaul does everything ass backward. They built the program on Chicago kids in the 70s and then somewhat abandoned Chicago to "go national", alienating Cox and Hambric. And now when they should abandon Chicago they chase pipedreams like Jabari Parker.


That's not what happened.

CPS coaches were very unhappy about how Teddy Grubbs was handled.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997 ... bbs-depaul


According to former DePaul assistant coach Robert Collins, a onetime Public League coach, the school was unfairly blamed for Grubbs' problems.

"DePaul has always been very protective of its young men," said Collins, currently Northern Illinois' associate athletic director. "The school was actually the first one to understand Grubbs' problems and to try to help him. Teddy Grubbs' problems did not begin when he went to DePaul."

But the perception remained, along with a change in the mind-set of the high school stars. More and more started going away to school.



That was part of it, but those coaches were already honked off that DePaul began expanding their recruiting out to California and New York City. They figured DePaul should be staying local. Crazy Teddy Grubbs was just icing on the cake. By the way, Grubbs was in prison with my partner, maybe in Dixon. I think he's out now. Best ball player in the joint.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Not surprised.

Teddy Grubbs could play some ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:37 pm 
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The Dallas Comgeys signing out of Philly was the first one that really pissed off the CPS coaches.

Was shocked to see that Comgeys is now 50 years old .... a long standing issue, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:23 pm 
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Wow Dallas Comegys. I am so old. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:21 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Coaches from lesser programs do not believe that they will be protected like Coach K or Calipari. Thus they are reluctant.
This is one of the major reasons that DePaul has no shot to be good by recruiting Chicago. Even if it works, they'll get slapped down so fast the players likely wouldn't be there by the tournament.

If I'm DePaul, I concentrate on the areas from Chicago to Indianapolis to St. Louis. There are plenty of kids from those areas that would love to go to Chicago and they don't have the same systems you have to control. I'll simply bring up Purdue because it is what I know but they pretty much avoid Chicago unless there is a major connection to the school like Kendall Stephens. They seem more interested in Ohio than Chicago even though it's only a 2 hour drive away. If a close Big Ten school thought they could build a winner with Chicago kids they'd be doing it.

It's just like Illinois. They worry way too much about Chicago. They should dominate from south of I-80 to St. Louis. Instead, they chase the next Cliff Alexander because the fans want every coach to act like Chicago is the golden goose. Target kids with an Illinois connection in Chicago but get the best non-Chicago players in the state and I think you'll do pretty well.


What evidence do you have to support this statement? Why would a kid want to come to DePaul when the facilities are bad, the student body is largely comprised of commuters, and the program lacks visibility? Changing recruitment strategies won't make much of an impact DePaul makes some significant changes within and beyond the Athletic Department--or goes dirty a la Pat Kennedy.


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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
What evidence do you have to support this statement? Why would a kid want to come to DePaul when the facilities are bad, the student body is largely comprised of commuters, and the program lacks visibility? Changing recruitment strategies won't make much of an impact DePaul makes some significant changes within and beyond the Athletic Department--or goes dirty a la Pat Kennedy.
I said Chicago, not necessarily DePaul. I had friend who went to DePaul simply because they wanted to live in the city, and I was just a suburban kid. My guess is a kid who can shoot from Peoria is ready for big city living.

Your criticisms are fair. I'm not saying those are the same for all kids. I think you'd find it easier and less of a hassle to get a kid from Bloomington-Normal.

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 Post subject: Re: Oliver Purnell done
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:58 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
My guess is a kid who can shoot from Peoria is ready for big city living.

Your criticisms are fair. I'm not saying those are the same for all kids. I think you'd find it easier and less of a hassle to get a kid from Bloomington-Normal.



Illinois has pretty much owned the state outside of Chicago. They've missed on some high profile guys over the years- Joey Range, Michael Payne, Uwe Blab, LaPhonso Ellis, Jay Shidler, Chuck Verderber, etc., but for the most part they've done well to keep those downstate players at the state school.

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