Anyone who wants to sign up for the value of the individual over government, us libertarians are ready to embrace you. But be warned, you have to respect the preferences of others.

Identity politics is hegemonic within Western Civilization and directly contradicts your assertions.

Identity politics are bad but preferable to shoving gay people off rooftops or imprisoning a Muslim minority.

self discipline is a virtue that is valuable in every life

Yeah but are you going to the bad place because you ate a sandwich during Ramadan?

The half Libertarian speaks out

Is that where we started the conversation? What does this mean? How do you know Muslim countries aren't doing the same? Why is your/our way of life objectively better?

I'm a believer in the American idea. There's no place I'd rather be. I'm also a Christian. It was forced on me, but I would like to believe it is my choice now. I think Scottish whiskey is the best alcohol. I think Chicago is the best city on the planet, and I'll die being a fanatic of Chicago teams. We're all inherently tribalistic. We're going to defend our preferences in passionate ways. I don't think this is problematic MOST of the time. It can even be a fun exercise.

I don't personally know you. I don't believe I've crossed paths with you at any point in my life. If I shit on you as a man because of your faith, where you live, the country you may have migrated from, or your skin pigment, it would make me an absolutely ignorant man. That's what a lot of us do. It's not enough for us to celebrate our preferences; we must denigrate the preferences or appearances of others. Some people have never touched a Koran, been inside a Mosque, visited a predominantly Muslim country, or interacted with Muslims, but they can tell you why they're dogs or their way of life is the worst. This type of ignorance moves tribalism to a potentially dangerous place.

The value and individual rights of human beings is a Christian concept.

Is that where we started the conversation?

What does this mean?

How do you know Muslim countries aren't doing the same?

Why is your/our way of life objectively better?

I'm a believer in the American idea…

Identity politics central concern is the ascension of one group identity over others.

It is a zero sum game, not a teleology.

There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.

The sandwich is a slippery slope.

It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.

Yes. Page 43. The tweet posted by JORR led to the last 3+ pages.

What does what mean?

Awareness. Reading. Interacting with people who live/lived in certain markets.

Because the way of life in western civilization exists, in part, to guarantee the protection of individual rights not seen elsewhere.

This long part was just a couple paragraphs of moral relativism, and what seems to be a suggestion that nothing is knowable without intimate, lived experience. If that’s the case, close up shop and stop learning.

Refusing to acknowledge something right in front of your face isn’t a virtue. Suggesting the individual should be valued - which absolutely is foundational to Christianity - is not the same as saying Christians are better or different than Muslims or Hindus or Packer fans. You’re trying to make a macro argument micro.

The tweet that kicked off the recent discussion is literally in response to a point made by an atheist. It wasn’t some Christian fundamentalist pumping up his religion.

If you’re saying we claim to have foot longs, then yes I am half.

It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.

I'm sorry it offends you that I won't share your ignorance. I don't need to make billions of people less than to appreciate America or anything else. You're incapable of making any argument without some false choice of good vs evil.

Yeah I wouldn’t argue that point, but your first sentence gets to the heart of it: the elevation of one group over a non-favored group.

That is, the negation of the individual to benefit some collective. Granted it’s a much weaker collective, but it’s still an attempt to promote group over individual.

More ad hominnem. It's so weak.

Because it is incompatible. Islam is NOT simply about praying to Allah and minding one's own business otherwise. It's a complete system for living and there isn't room for the U.S. Constitution within that system.

I'm not sure if you don't know that or if you're just pretending not to know it.

I've addressed the hate you've peddled. You didn't counter anything I posted. You just positioned more ignorance. Now I'm responding to your personal attack, and you're crying victim. Pick a lane. Be an ignorant asshole or a victim, but you can't be both.

It's a different way of life. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a decidedly worse way of life. Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism. Muslims do not have a monopoly on zealots and fanaticism. Though "we" sure as hell just love to pretend and propagate as if "WE" do.

Declaring argument you can't refute "hate" isn't going to work.

In fact, the only hate in this thread today is the insults you somehow cannot refrain from tossing around.

Your ancient arguments have been refuted.

Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism.

"Islam is completely incompatible with any kind of country you want to live in."

This is what moved the current discussion.

I bolded the text for you.

So no personal experience. Got it!

It's one thing to believe that's why a particular civilization exists; it's another to declare that it's objectively better, especially when you have ZERO experience with another way of life.

I think the paragraphs were central to the discussion we're having. It's okay that you found them useless. It helps me better understand your perspective. I think there's a difference between believing and knowing. You clearly don't. If it fits your worldview, you'll accept the propaganda of anyone as fact. It may make life easier, but I view it as lazy and the subsequent rhetoric that follows as ignorant. That's the disconnect.

But it lies at the heart of neoliberal legitimacy. Neoliberalism lies at the heart of late-stage capitalism. Capitalism lies at the heart of the political and economic organization of Western Civilization.