Chicago Fanatics Message Board
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Cancellation updates
http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=121872
Page 47 of 51

Author:  Nardi [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

denisdman wrote:
Anyone who wants to sign up for the value of the individual over government, us libertarians are ready to embrace you. But be warned, you have to respect the preferences of others.

The half Libertarian speaks out

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Tall Midget wrote:

Identity politics is hegemonic within Western Civilization and directly contradicts your assertions.

Identity politics are bad but preferable to shoving gay people off rooftops or imprisoning a Muslim minority.

Author:  Tall Midget [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Identity politics is hegemonic within Western Civilization and directly contradicts your assertions.

Identity politics are bad but preferable to shoving gay people off rooftops or imprisoning a Muslim minority.


Identity politics central concern is the ascension of one group identity over others.

It is a zero sum game, not a teleology.

Author:  Brick [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

good dolphin wrote:
Brick wrote:
Can we at least all agree that fasting from sunrise to sunset is probably not required for a good afterlife?


self discipline is a virtue that is valuable in every life

Yeah but are you going to the bad place because you ate a sandwich during Ramadan?

Author:  pittmike [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Brick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Brick wrote:
Can we at least all agree that fasting from sunrise to sunset is probably not required for a good afterlife?


self discipline is a virtue that is valuable in every life

Yeah but are you going to the bad place because you ate a sandwich during Ramadan?


The sandwich is a slippery slope.

Author:  denisdman [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Nardi wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Anyone who wants to sign up for the value of the individual over government, us libertarians are ready to embrace you. But be warned, you have to respect the preferences of others.

The half Libertarian speaks out


If you’re saying we claim to have foot longs, then yes I am half.

Author:  The Doctor Of Style [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Nas wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nas wrote:
How about you answer the outstanding question before asking me to answer another question?

Which question? Why western civ is superior to the alternatives?

I’d go back to the value placed on the individual, which was the start of this conversation
. Whether you want to describe that to Christianity itself or it’s just a function of western civ’s Christian roots, I’m fine either way.


Is that where we started the conversation? What does this mean? How do you know Muslim countries aren't doing the same? Why is your/our way of life objectively better?

I'm a believer in the American idea. There's no place I'd rather be. I'm also a Christian. It was forced on me, but I would like to believe it is my choice now. I think Scottish whiskey is the best alcohol. I think Chicago is the best city on the planet, and I'll die being a fanatic of Chicago teams. We're all inherently tribalistic. We're going to defend our preferences in passionate ways. I don't think this is problematic MOST of the time. It can even be a fun exercise.

I don't personally know you. I don't believe I've crossed paths with you at any point in my life. If I shit on you as a man because of your faith, where you live, the country you may have migrated from, or your skin pigment, it would make me an absolutely ignorant man. That's what a lot of us do. It's not enough for us to celebrate our preferences; we must denigrate the preferences or appearances of others. Some people have never touched a Koran, been inside a Mosque, visited a predominantly Muslim country, or interacted with Muslims, but they can tell you why they're dogs or their way of life is the worst. This type of ignorance moves tribalism to a potentially dangerous place.


Well said. And still argue with you that their views aren't bigoted as well. And typically be supported by people with "likeminded" viewpoints about it.

Author:  Seacrest [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

The value and individual rights of human beings is a Christian concept.

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


The Magna Charta came close, but the Bill of Rights is the first place where a government acknowledged this in writing.

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Nas wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nas wrote:
How about you answer the outstanding question before asking me to answer another question?

Which question? Why western civ is superior to the alternatives?

I’d go back to the value placed on the individual, which was the start of this conversation
. Whether you want to describe that to Christianity itself or it’s just a function of western civ’s Christian roots, I’m fine either way.


Is that where we started the conversation?
Yes. Page 43. The tweet posted by JORR led to the last 3+ pages.

Nas wrote:
What does this mean?
What does what mean?

Nas wrote:
How do you know Muslim countries aren't doing the same?
Awareness. Reading. Interacting with people who live/lived in certain markets.

Nas wrote:
Why is your/our way of life objectively better?
Because the way of life in western civilization exists, in part, to guarantee the protection of individual rights not seen elsewhere.

Nas wrote:
I'm a believer in the American idea…
This long part was just a couple paragraphs of moral relativism, and what seems to be a suggestion that nothing is knowable without intimate, lived experience. If that’s the case, close up shop and stop learning.

Refusing to acknowledge something right in front of your face isn’t a virtue. Suggesting the individual should be valued - which absolutely is foundational to Christianity - is not the same as saying Christians are better or different than Muslims or Hindus or Packer fans. You’re trying to make a macro argument micro.

The tweet that kicked off the recent discussion is literally in response to a point made by an atheist. It wasn’t some Christian fundamentalist pumping up his religion.

Author:  Seacrest [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Brick wrote:
So religious people are only nice to others because they view others as a creation of God?




Mao was cool because the people he killed "were landowners"

Author:  The Doctor Of Style [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Tall Midget wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Identity politics is hegemonic within Western Civilization and directly contradicts your assertions.

Identity politics are bad but preferable to shoving gay people off rooftops or imprisoning a Muslim minority.


Identity politics central concern is the ascension of one group identity over others.

It is a zero sum game, not a teleology.

Yeah I wouldn’t argue that point, but your first sentence gets to the heart of it: the elevation of one group over a non-favored group.

That is, the negation of the individual to benefit some collective. Granted it’s a much weaker collective, but it’s still an attempt to promote group over individual.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

The Doctor Of Style wrote:
There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.


It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.

Author:  Brick [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

pittmike wrote:
Brick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Brick wrote:
Can we at least all agree that fasting from sunrise to sunset is probably not required for a good afterlife?


self discipline is a virtue that is valuable in every life

Yeah but are you going to the bad place because you ate a sandwich during Ramadan?


The sandwich is a slippery slope.

Poorly made.

Author:  The Doctor Of Style [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.


It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.


Jorr at what point does the propagating and/or brainwashing cease to exist? Never?

Author:  Nas [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nas wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nas wrote:
How about you answer the outstanding question before asking me to answer another question?

Which question? Why western civ is superior to the alternatives?

I’d go back to the value placed on the individual, which was the start of this conversation
. Whether you want to describe that to Christianity itself or it’s just a function of western civ’s Christian roots, I’m fine either way.


Is that where we started the conversation?
Yes. Page 43. The tweet posted by JORR led to the last 3+ pages.

Nas wrote:
What does this mean?
What does what mean?

Nas wrote:
How do you know Muslim countries aren't doing the same?
Awareness. Reading. Interacting with people who live/lived in certain markets.

Nas wrote:
Why is your/our way of life objectively better?
Because the way of life in western civilization exists, in part, to guarantee the protection of individual rights not seen elsewhere.

Nas wrote:
I'm a believer in the American idea…
This long part was just a couple paragraphs of moral relativism, and what seems to be a suggestion that nothing is knowable without intimate, lived experience. If that’s the case, close up shop and stop learning.

Refusing to acknowledge something right in front of your face isn’t a virtue. Suggesting the individual should be valued - which absolutely is foundational to Christianity - is not the same as saying Christians are better or different than Muslims or Hindus or Packer fans. You’re trying to make a macro argument micro.

The tweet that kicked off the recent discussion is literally in response to a point made by an atheist. It wasn’t some Christian fundamentalist pumping up his religion.



"Islam is completely incompatible with any kind of country you want to live in."

This is what moved the current discussion.

I bolded the text for you.

So no personal experience. Got it!

It's one thing to believe that's why a particular civilization exists; it's another to declare that it's objectively better, especially when you have ZERO experience with another way of life.

I think the paragraphs were central to the discussion we're having. It's okay that you found them useless. It helps me better understand your perspective. I think there's a difference between believing and knowing. You clearly don't. If it fits your worldview, you'll accept the propaganda of anyone as fact. It may make life easier, but I view it as lazy and the subsequent rhetoric that follows as ignorant. That's the disconnect.

Author:  Nardi [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

denisdman wrote:
Nardi wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Anyone who wants to sign up for the value of the individual over government, us libertarians are ready to embrace you. But be warned, you have to respect the preferences of others.

The half Libertarian speaks out


If you’re saying we claim to have foot longs, then yes I am half.

I'm saying you pick and choose the Libertarian doctrine. You're the Rachel Dolezal of Libertarians. There's no "we".

It's ok man. I used to think I was a Libertarian too.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Because it is incompatible. Islam is NOT simply about praying to Allah and minding one's own business otherwise. It's a complete system for living and there isn't room for the U.S. Constitution within that system.

I'm not sure if you don't know that or if you're just pretending not to know it.

Author:  Nas [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.


It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.


I'm sorry it offends you that I won't share your ignorance. I don't need to make billions of people less than to appreciate America or anything else. You're incapable of making any argument without some false choice of good vs evil.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.


It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.


I'm sorry it offends you that I won't share your ignorance. I don't need to make billions of people less than to appreciate America or anything else. You're incapable of making any argument without some false choice of good vs evil.



More ad hominnem. It's so weak.

Author:  Tall Midget [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Identity politics is hegemonic within Western Civilization and directly contradicts your assertions.

Identity politics are bad but preferable to shoving gay people off rooftops or imprisoning a Muslim minority.


Identity politics central concern is the ascension of one group identity over others.

It is a zero sum game, not a teleology.

Yeah I wouldn’t argue that point, but your first sentence gets to the heart of it: the elevation of one group over a non-favored group.

That is, the negation of the individual to benefit some collective. Granted it’s a much weaker collective, but it’s still an attempt to promote group over individual.


But it lies at the heart of neoliberal legitimacy. Neoliberalism lies at the heart of late-stage capitalism. Capitalism lies at the heart of the political and economic organization of Western Civilization.

Author:  Nas [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.


It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.


I'm sorry it offends you that I won't share your ignorance. I don't need to make billions of people less than to appreciate America or anything else. You're incapable of making any argument without some false choice of good vs evil.



More ad hominnem. It's so weak.


I've addressed the hate you've peddled. You didn't counter anything I posted. You just positioned more ignorance. Now I'm responding to your personal attack, and you're crying victim. Pick a lane. Be an ignorant asshole or a victim, but you can't be both.

Author:  The Doctor Of Style [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Because it is incompatible. Islam is NOT simply about praying to Allah and minding one's own business otherwise. It's a complete system for living and there isn't room for the U.S. Constitution within that system.

I'm not sure if you don't know that or if you're just pretending not to know it.


It's a different way of life. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a decidedly worse way of life. Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism. Muslims do not have a monopoly on zealots and fanaticism. Though "we" sure as hell just love to pretend and propagate as if "WE" do.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.


It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.


I'm sorry it offends you that I won't share your ignorance. I don't need to make billions of people less than to appreciate America or anything else. You're incapable of making any argument without some false choice of good vs evil.



More ad hominnem. It's so weak.


I've addressed the hate you've peddled. You didn't counter anything I posted. You just positioned more ignorance. Now I'm responding to your personal attack, and you're crying victim. Pick a lane. Be an ignorant asshole or a victim, but you can't be both.



Declaring argument you can't refute "hate" isn't going to work.

In fact, the only hate in this thread today is the insults you somehow cannot refrain from tossing around.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Because it is incompatible. Islam is NOT simply about praying to Allah and minding one's own business otherwise. It's a complete system for living and there isn't room for the U.S. Constitution within that system.

I'm not sure if you don't know that or if you're just pretending not to know it.


It's a different way of life. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a decidedly worse way of life. Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism. Muslims do not have a monopoly on zealots and fanaticism. Though "we" sure as hell just love to pretend and propagate as if "WE" do.


Is Nazism a different way of life you are unwilling to judge?

You're just espousing moral relativism here.

Author:  Nas [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
There are over 2 Billion Muslims living the world today.If it were a religion comprised solely of nutjobs and fanatics, then you'd know it by now. Like any religion, Christianity included, it has it share of fanatics. But the group of fanatics are not the norm. Just as Christian fanatics and zealots are not the norm either.
As far as the U.S. being the "greatest nation on earth" that's mostly subjective. For some it's great, and for most it Probably isn't. There are a number of things which are utterly detestable about how this country operates. And there are a number of things that are very good to great about how this country operates. Whether or not the supremacy of either equates to "great" or "terrible" overall, who really knows for sure actually.


It's funny that you and Nas will defend almost any group regardless of how vile their ideas and philosophies, but Trump voters is where you draw the line.


I'm sorry it offends you that I won't share your ignorance. I don't need to make billions of people less than to appreciate America or anything else. You're incapable of making any argument without some false choice of good vs evil.



More ad hominnem. It's so weak.


I've addressed the hate you've peddled. You didn't counter anything I posted. You just positioned more ignorance. Now I'm responding to your personal attack, and you're crying victim. Pick a lane. Be an ignorant asshole or a victim, but you can't be both.



Declaring argument you can't refute "hate" isn't going to work.

In fact, the only hate in this thread today is the insults you somehow cannot refrain from tossing around.


Your ancient arguments have been refuted.

I'm not surprised you see my response to your ignorance as hate. If you said anything less I would have been shocked. The word ignorance triggers you, but your denigrating billions of people and countries you know nothing about is love. Enjoy that increasingly small bubble.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Nas wrote:

Your ancient arguments have been refuted.


My arguments are contemporary and they haven't been refuted. Certainly not by you. Unless you think repeatedly calling me "ignorant" is a refutation.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism.


This is a terrible "both sides" argument that is simply false.

If you became as fundamental as possible regarding the teachings of Jesus there wouldn't be one dead body.

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Nas wrote:
"Islam is completely incompatible with any kind of country you want to live in."

This is what moved the current discussion.

I bolded the text for you.
Where did you bold that?

Nas wrote:
So no personal experience. Got it!
Personal experience with what? I’ve spent time in Muslim countries if that’s what you’re saying. I also work pretty regularly with colleagues in Muslim majority countries (and Muslims in western countries). I don’t consider a week on a work trip here & there as some sort of argument-ending expertise.

Drawing conclusions from a vacation is an inexplicably worse version of the guy who spends a semester abroad and comes back saying “cheers” and “mate.”


Nas wrote:
It's one thing to believe that's why a particular civilization exists; it's another to declare that it's objectively better, especially when you have ZERO experience with another way of life.

I think the paragraphs were central to the discussion we're having. It's okay that you found them useless. It helps me better understand your perspective. I think there's a difference between believing and knowing. You clearly don't. If it fits your worldview, you'll accept the propaganda of anyone as fact. It may make life easier, but I view it as lazy and the subsequent rhetoric that follows as ignorant. That's the disconnect.
The paragraphs were you stating what you don’t know and then attacking on that basis.

If you’re either afraid or unable to analyze disparate things and draw conclusions, that tells me quite a bit also. I’d view that as more cowardice than laziness but I’ll avoid drawing conclusions about your worldview based on some message board posts.

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cancellation updates

Tall Midget wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Identity politics is hegemonic within Western Civilization and directly contradicts your assertions.

Identity politics are bad but preferable to shoving gay people off rooftops or imprisoning a Muslim minority.


Identity politics central concern is the ascension of one group identity over others.

It is a zero sum game, not a teleology.

Yeah I wouldn’t argue that point, but your first sentence gets to the heart of it: the elevation of one group over a non-favored group.

That is, the negation of the individual to benefit some collective. Granted it’s a much weaker collective, but it’s still an attempt to promote group over individual.


But it lies at the heart of neoliberal legitimacy. Neoliberalism lies at the heart of late-stage capitalism. Capitalism lies at the heart of the political and economic organization of Western Civilization.

I disagree. It’s the result of a system moving away from individualism. Identity politics almost literally tell people that they are/are not something based on some immutable characteristic.

I don’t know how neoliberalism fits in that, but I’m confident it has nothing to do with capitalism.

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