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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:10 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.

It's fine for the left to fear a tyrannical Trump, and yes he does show authoritarian tendencies. It's just that you shouldn't follow such logic with also asking to disarm the populace.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:12 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.


Because no organ of the US government or its member states has committed senseless violence against citizens. Chuckles indeed.



Thanks for debunking Ogie's mythological belief that people just have to have guns because without them Govt would run roughshot over them.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:12 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We do have gun control in this country. It's called background checks.
What kind of background checks happen at gun shows?

How many weapons used in a mass shooting have been purchased in this manner?

https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/cor ... -loophole/

Seriously, this argument is made after each and every mass shooting yet none of them were purchased via this manner.
This reply has nothing to do with my post.

Answer the question.

The gun control loophole has been shown not to be a problem. Demonstrate there's a problem and I'd consider closing it.
Cool story, bro.

I'll ask one more time, What kind of background checks are being done right now at gun shows?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:14 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm open to any suggestions on gun control. Maybe we ban something. Ogie just keeps undercutting all of the sensible gun owners with the idea that fully automatic weapons suck anyways.

Darkside provided his input as a gun enthusiast. Agree or disagree his ideas seems more productive to spurring a discussion than Ogie. Ogie seems to be terrified any suggestion for change means he may no longer be able to raise a militia and and shoot the Government™.


Have you or anyone else addressed the fact that we have lots of laws on the books but they aren't enforced properly (or if they are, they don't stop mass murders)? What good would it do to make more laws?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:14 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.

It's fine for the left to fear a tyrannical Trump, and yes he does show authoritarian tendencies. It's just that you shouldn't follow such logic with also asking to disarm the populace.



You are arguing that people have no right to fear Trump yet have a right to fear Govt. If not Trump then who? If not now when?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:15 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.


Because no organ of the US government or its member states has committed senseless violence against citizens. Chuckles indeed.



Thanks for debunking Ogie's mythological belief that people just have to have guns because without them Govt would run roughshot over them.


...uhhhh k.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:16 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We do have gun control in this country. It's called background checks.
What kind of background checks happen at gun shows?

How many weapons used in a mass shooting have been purchased in this manner?

https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/cor ... -loophole/

Seriously, this argument is made after each and every mass shooting yet none of them were purchased via this manner.
This reply has nothing to do with my post.

Answer the question.

The gun control loophole has been shown not to be a problem. Demonstrate there's a problem and I'd consider closing it.
Cool story, bro.

I'll ask one more time, What kind of background checks are being done right now at gun shows?


Depends on state. Illinois, you run one.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:16 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.

It's fine for the left to fear a tyrannical Trump, and yes he does show authoritarian tendencies. It's just that you shouldn't follow such logic with also asking to disarm the populace.



I take issue with that. Sure, Trump spouts off like a dictator at times, but from a practical standpoint his policies thus far have actually removed/eliminated government interference/regulation. It's hard to see how that is tyrannical. In any case, if and when the U.S. government turns to dictatorship it won't be in the face of a built in #Resistance to the potential dictator. It will be a person who has widespread support and huge popularity.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:16 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.

It's fine for the left to fear a tyrannical Trump, and yes he does show authoritarian tendencies. It's just that you shouldn't follow such logic with also asking to disarm the populace.



You are arguing that people have no right to fear Trump yet have a right to fear Govt. If not Trump then who? If not now when?

Did you not read literally the first line of the post you quoted?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:18 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.

It's fine for the left to fear a tyrannical Trump, and yes he does show authoritarian tendencies. It's just that you shouldn't follow such logic with also asking to disarm the populace.



You are arguing that people have no right to fear Trump yet have a right to fear Govt. If not Trump then who? If not now when?

Did you not read literally the first line of the post you quoted?



I know you didn't. Either that or you had problems with the comprehension portion.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:18 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.

It's fine for the left to fear a tyrannical Trump, and yes he does show authoritarian tendencies. It's just that you shouldn't follow such logic with also asking to disarm the populace.



You are arguing that people have no right to fear Trump yet have a right to fear Govt. If not Trump then who? If not now when?


You're misunderstanding his point. It isn't to say that Trump may not be worthy of fear. Its the fact that if you truly fear your government is slipping to facism...why would you also be in favor of giving away your guns??

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:20 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
In any case, if and when the U.S. government turns to dictatorship it won't be in the face of a built in #Resistance to the potential dictator. It will be a person who has widespread support and huge popularity.


Hitler didn't have widespread support.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:22 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.

It's fine for the left to fear a tyrannical Trump, and yes he does show authoritarian tendencies. It's just that you shouldn't follow such logic with also asking to disarm the populace.



I take issue with that. Sure, Trump spouts off like a dictator at times, but from a practical standpoint his policies thus far have actually removed/eliminated government interference/regulation. It's hard to see how that is tyrannical. In any case, if and when the U.S. government turns to dictatorship it won't be in the face of a built in #Resistance to the potential dictator. It will be a person who has widespread support and huge popularity.



I'm not arguing that Trump is tyrannical. I will save that for another day. I'm just finding it difficult to ascertain how he can criticize "the left" for fearing the Tyrannical impulses of Trump while simultaneously lauding gun owners for resisting the tyranny of govt. Trump last I checked is the head of govt. Why can't it be that the "left" is simply providing a check on govt power in the same way that he proposes that gun owners do?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:22 am 
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Wow. Rough thread for Frank. First he got shown that the guns weren't purchased at gun shows. Then when he was being obtuse and dug his heels in...Squirrel comes along and knocks him the fuck out.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:23 am 
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storkinastorm wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm open to any suggestions on gun control. Maybe we ban something. Ogie just keeps undercutting all of the sensible gun owners with the idea that fully automatic weapons suck anyways.

Darkside provided his input as a gun enthusiast. Agree or disagree his ideas seems more productive to spurring a discussion than Ogie. Ogie seems to be terrified any suggestion for change means he may no longer be able to raise a militia and and shoot the Government™.


Have you or anyone else addressed the fact that we have lots of laws on the books but they aren't enforced properly (or if they are, they don't stop mass murders)? What good would it do to make more laws?

What laws aren't enforced properly? Could you explain as I'm not familiar which aren't?

From my understanding of the past 3 mass murders, the Florida school shooter and Las Vegas shooter both acquired guns legally. Each of them did nothing illegal until they decided to kill people. The Texas church shooter should've been flagged. Improving our background check system to provide better information on fitness of ownership seems like a good idea!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:24 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
In any case, if and when the U.S. government turns to dictatorship it won't be in the face of a built in #Resistance to the potential dictator. It will be a person who has widespread support and huge popularity.


Hitler didn't have widespread support.



I'm pretty sure he did.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We do have gun control in this country. It's called background checks. Don't blame gun owners when the government is too incompetent to properly perform them.

Heck, if that asshole sheriff in Broward County did his job on any of his 25-30 calls to the residence his dept received, they could have charged Cruz thus ensuring he would have been prevented from purchasing a firearm. By not doing jack shit about him, they ensured he would pass any background check as he had no record.

Charged with what? Would any of the alleged charges prevented him from obtaining a gun in Florida?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We do have gun control in this country. It's called background checks. Don't blame gun owners when the government is too incompetent to properly perform them.

Heck, if that asshole sheriff in Broward County did his job on any of his 25-30 calls to the residence his dept received, they could have charged Cruz thus ensuring he would have been prevented from purchasing a firearm. By not doing jack shit about him, they ensured he would pass any background check as he had no record.

Charged with what? Would any of the alleged charges prevented him from obtaining a gun in Florida?


Being creepy on the internet.

Watch out, Beardown!

You're next!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:27 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
In any case, if and when the U.S. government turns to dictatorship it won't be in the face of a built in #Resistance to the potential dictator. It will be a person who has widespread support and huge popularity.


Hitler didn't have widespread support.



I'm pretty sure he did.

Yeah, that's an awfully bad take by Hank.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:27 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Today's left:

Quote:
Trump is literally Hitler and our government is becoming fascist.




Got to chuckle at the inherent contradiction found in this statement. It is simultaneously wrong for the left to fear the possibility of a tyrannical Trump presidency yet right for gun owners to fear the possibility of tyrannical govt.

It's fine for the left to fear a tyrannical Trump, and yes he does show authoritarian tendencies. It's just that you shouldn't follow such logic with also asking to disarm the populace.



You are arguing that people have no right to fear Trump yet have a right to fear Govt. If not Trump then who? If not now when?


You're misunderstanding his point. It isn't to say that Trump may not be worthy of fear. Its the fact that if you truly fear your government is slipping to facism...why would you also be in favor of giving away your guns??



I don't believe that most people own guns because of a fear of govt tyranny. Secondly if the govt ever decided to act in a tyrannical fashion there would be nothing that the avg gun owner or militia could do to stop them. They'd run through them like a hot knife through butter.

We have yet to see actual tyranny in this country and I hope that we never will. Unless you count the period before we were even a country.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:28 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
In any case, if and when the U.S. government turns to dictatorship it won't be in the face of a built in #Resistance to the potential dictator. It will be a person who has widespread support and huge popularity.


Hitler didn't have widespread support.



I'm pretty sure he did.


Let's say he didn't.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:30 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Let's say he didn't.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:31 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
In any case, if and when the U.S. government turns to dictatorship it won't be in the face of a built in #Resistance to the potential dictator. It will be a person who has widespread support and huge popularity.


Hitler didn't have widespread support.



I'm pretty sure he did.


Let's say he didn't.


He never had majorities in his elections until he started killing everyone.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:35 am 
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storkinastorm wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm open to any suggestions on gun control. Maybe we ban something. Ogie just keeps undercutting all of the sensible gun owners with the idea that fully automatic weapons suck anyways.

Darkside provided his input as a gun enthusiast. Agree or disagree his ideas seems more productive to spurring a discussion than Ogie. Ogie seems to be terrified any suggestion for change means he may no longer be able to raise a militia and and shoot the Government™.


Have you or anyone else addressed the fact that we have lots of laws on the books but they aren't enforced properly (or if they are, they don't stop mass murders)? What good would it do to make more laws?

The current laws are ineffectual. Give some solutions that would be. As Ogie has pointed out automatic weapons aren't good at mass killings so let's have some more effective solutions.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:37 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm open to any suggestions on gun control. Maybe we ban something. Ogie just keeps undercutting all of the sensible gun owners with the idea that fully automatic weapons suck anyways.

Darkside provided his input as a gun enthusiast. Agree or disagree his ideas seems more productive to spurring a discussion than Ogie. Ogie seems to be terrified any suggestion for change means he may no longer be able to raise a militia and and shoot the Government™.


Have you or anyone else addressed the fact that we have lots of laws on the books but they aren't enforced properly (or if they are, they don't stop mass murders)? What good would it do to make more laws?

The current laws are ineffectual. Give some solutions that would be. As Ogie has pointed out automatic weapons aren't good at mass killings so let's have some more effective solutions.


I don't believe there are any solutions.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:40 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
In any case, if and when the U.S. government turns to dictatorship it won't be in the face of a built in #Resistance to the potential dictator. It will be a person who has widespread support and huge popularity.


Hitler didn't have widespread support.



I'm pretty sure he did.

Yeah, that's an awfully bad take by Hank.


Look at the numbers. They were losing seats until the SS started killing people.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:41 am 
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storkinastorm wrote:
I don't believe there are any solutions.
You believe there is nothing that can be done to help possibly prevent people from walking into a school and slaughtering MANY children?

Terrible thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:42 am 
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storkinastorm wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm open to any suggestions on gun control. Maybe we ban something. Ogie just keeps undercutting all of the sensible gun owners with the idea that fully automatic weapons suck anyways.

Darkside provided his input as a gun enthusiast. Agree or disagree his ideas seems more productive to spurring a discussion than Ogie. Ogie seems to be terrified any suggestion for change means he may no longer be able to raise a militia and and shoot the Government™.


Have you or anyone else addressed the fact that we have lots of laws on the books but they aren't enforced properly (or if they are, they don't stop mass murders)? What good would it do to make more laws?

The current laws are ineffectual. Give some solutions that would be. As Ogie has pointed out automatic weapons aren't good at mass killings so let's have some more effective solutions.


I don't believe there are any solutions.

:lol:

Well ok then.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:45 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
I don't believe there are any solutions.
You believe there is nothing that can be done to help possibly prevent people from walking into a school and slaughtering MANY children?

Terrible thought.


You describing the horrific nature of the crime doesn't make it any more preventable. Earthquakes are horrific, too, but we can't prevent them.

It's clear you also don't believe it yourself since you have to preface by saying it might "help possibly." That doesn't sound convincing.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:46 am 
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storkinastorm wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm open to any suggestions on gun control. Maybe we ban something. Ogie just keeps undercutting all of the sensible gun owners with the idea that fully automatic weapons suck anyways.

Darkside provided his input as a gun enthusiast. Agree or disagree his ideas seems more productive to spurring a discussion than Ogie. Ogie seems to be terrified any suggestion for change means he may no longer be able to raise a militia and and shoot the Government™.


Have you or anyone else addressed the fact that we have lots of laws on the books but they aren't enforced properly (or if they are, they don't stop mass murders)? What good would it do to make more laws?

The current laws are ineffectual. Give some solutions that would be. As Ogie has pointed out automatic weapons aren't good at mass killings so let's have some more effective solutions.


I don't believe there are any solutions.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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