so if i make a rule that says that you are not allowed to wash jerry curl hair oil down the shower drains in my homes, that makes me super inclusive because i realize that there are white people who also use jerry curl oil too i'm sure.

Well, for decades up to now white supremacist meant white hoods and burning crosses and Bricks through windows. I think that's where some people are getting confused. the definition changed but not everyone got the memo.

Well, for decades up to now white supremacist meant white hoods and burning crosses and Bricks through windows. I think that's where some people are getting confused. the definition changed but not everyone got the memo.

I think leash's argument that people claim others are racist too often is correct(I'll even concede I'm part of that problem sometime). He is absolutely incorrect to use that argument to in any way defend Donald Trump. Donald Trump isn't just incompetent. Donald Trump is a white man with a racist ideology that he's displayed with his public actions and rhetoric on numerous occasions. I don't believe my last sentence is disputable. And he is the fucking President of the United States so any talk trying to differentiate between racist and supremacist based on power is invalidated.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

But this is also a difference in perception that I argue about with MANY people. I am a big fan of Hanlon's Razor... "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance." MANY of you give way too much credit to others. A woman I work with and am good friends with is like that. She always thinks everyone is up to something or trying to pull one over on her. I always tell her, "No, they're just stupid." I feel this way about Trump. I think most of his statements are attributable to his idiocy. If that makes me some sort of Trump apologist, then our political discourse in this country has gone way off the rails.

so if i make a rule that says that you are not allowed to wash jerry curl hair oil down the shower drains in my homes, that makes me super inclusive because i realize that there are white people who also use jerry curl oil too i'm sure.

My dad came to the US in the mid-50s, was able to start a business after a few years, was a leader in hiring blacks downtown and putting them in visible service positions, gave his cooks leeway to add southern items like grits to the menu and developed a tremendous following of black customers including business and political leaders for 35 years. All for civil rights and equality of opportunity, but very harsh on crime and against wide-spread welfare for the able-bodied/minded ("hey, I had $75 when I got here and I spent that on a suit. Nobody offered me welfare.")

The head of the Greek Orthodox Church in North America was on the iconic LIFE magazine photo with Dr. King. I was taught that as a little kid, that what happened with Jim Crow was wrong.

But when I dated a black woman for about nine months last year and early this year, he absolutely and totally lost his shit.

My dad couldn't bring himself to vote for Donald Trump. Not because he thought Trump was a racist or a white supremacist. But because he thought that Trump was a disrespectful moron.

This whole thing is so layered. And reducing it to 15 second sound bites and 140 character generalizations just makes the idiots emboldened to think that they understand the nuances.

This whole thing is so layered. And reducing it to 15 second sound bites and 140 character generalizations just makes the idiots emboldened to think that they understand the nuances.

Layers and nuance don't go well over here. For lack of a better expression, things seemingly have to be black or white.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

But when I dated a black woman for about nine months last year and early this year, he absolutely and totally lost his shit.

things seemingly have to be black or white.

The second one

But this is also a difference in perception that I argue about with MANY people. I am a big fan of Hanlon's Razor... "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance." MANY of you give way too much credit to others. A woman I work with and am good friends with is like that. She always thinks everyone is up to something or trying to pull one over on her. I always tell her, "No, they're just stupid." I feel this way about Trump. I think most of his statements are attributable to his idiocy. If that makes me some sort of Trump apologist, then our political discourse in this country has gone way off the rails.

Can generally great/good people have bad opinions or do bad things? Is it okay to excuse/rationalize the bad opinions or actions of people because we love them?

My Grandfather as well, was much like Chet's dad. He was in the leadership for the steelworkers union in East Chicago and had a lot of black friends. He was also in local politics so of course he was called "the n''' lover" as an attack against him. Now I"m positive he would NOT have wanted any of his daughters dating a black guy. It's hilarious to think he was a "white supremacists".

Again, regressive left angles like RPB and FF have taken are exactly why Trump won. So many people got tired of being told they were "racist/nazi" etc, etc. It's always black/white, binary, with the regressive left. There is never any room for understanding/thoughtful discussion. It's exhausting to be honest.

My Grandfather as well, was much like Chet's dad. He was in the leadership for the steelworkers union in East Chicago and had a lot of black friends. He was also in local politics so of course he was called "the n''' lover" as an attack against him. Now I"m positive he would NOT have wanted any of his daughters dating a black guy. It's hilarious to think he was a "white supremacists".

Again, regressive left angles like RPB and FF have taken are exactly why Trump won. So many people got tired of being told they were "racist/nazi" etc, etc. It's always black/white, binary, with the regressive left. There is never any room for understanding/thoughtful discussion. It's exhausting to be honest.

My Grandfather as well, was much like Chet's dad. He was in the leadership for the steelworkers union in East Chicago and had a lot of black friends. He was also in local politics so of course he was called "the n''' lover" as an attack against him. Now I"m positive he would NOT have wanted any of his daughters dating a black guy. It's hilarious to think he was a "white supremacists".

Again, regressive left angles like RPB and FF have taken are exactly why Trump won. So many people got tired of being told they were "racist/nazi" etc, etc. It's always black/white, binary, with the regressive left. There is never any room for understanding/thoughtful discussion. It's exhausting to be honest.

Wow. This is the most crybaby, angst-filled beta post I've ever seen from you. Stop being such a fucking crybaby and man up and defend your arguments like leash does at least.

Regressive left? That's like when Baby McCown calls anyone who disagrees with him a republican. Maybe you have reading comprehension issues but not one single poster over the last 10 years has ever mistaken me for a leftist apologist. Do better.

Wow. This is the most crybaby, angst-filled beta post I've ever seen from you. Stop being such a fucking crybaby and man up and defend your arguments like leash does at least.

Regressive left? That's like when Baby McCown calls anyone who disagrees with him a republican. Maybe you have reading comprehension issues but not one single poster over the last 10 years has ever mistaken me for a leftist apologist. Do better.

I can't stand Trump. Like many "Republicans", he played to a largely white base and so they use coded language and pander to people who are prejudiced. But it is a very big leap to call someone like Trump a white supremacist. Now he may be just that, but I consider him more of a political opportunist.

Everyone who has posted in this thread agrees that your thoughts on this are laughable.

Just stop.

And to say the left is the BLACK/WHITE side is HILARIOUS.

This is some sort of Andy Kauffman deal you're doing, right?

Oh and no one needs to have a thoughtful dialogue on your grandparents. We all understand why they believed what they did. We just dont need to excuse it.

I think if we didn't we would love anyone or have any friends.

Oh, believe me, I'm not seeking any "excuse", "forgiveness" from a simpleton like you.

You are acting like leftist apologist in this thread. A hardcore one to boot.

It's always black/white, binary, with the regressive left. There is never any room for understanding/thoughtful discussion. It's exhausting to be honest.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

I can't stand Trump. Like many "Republicans", he played to a largely white base and so they use coded language and pander to people who are prejudiced. But it is a very big leap to call someone like Trump a white supremacist. Now he may be just that, but I consider him more of a political opportunist.