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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:39 am 
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
IMU wrote:
You're clueless. What Pence did is exactly attempting to derail or stifle the protest by 'officially' declaring it disrespectful and saying he (the system) won't give it the time of day.


Ah, now the goalposts are shifting. Where in "leaves the game with an attempt to thwart our efforts" is Reid decidedly not talking about the act of Pence leaving the game? Reid clearly said that Pence leaving the game is oppression of him and his message. Your attempts to pretend that isn't what he was saying are getting ever more colorful.

And no, Pence calling the protests "disrespectful" is not oppressive. It's stupid, but it isn't oppressive.

Him leaving was an attempt to thwart their efforts because all of those e people like yourself see it as the dog whistle that they are being disrespectful and start yelling again. I'm not sure why you can't see that.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:40 am 
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Reid clearly said no such thing. You are trying and failing to interpret his comment correctly.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:44 am 
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Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:50 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

Shows always get lesser ratings in later seasons.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:52 am 
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

Add another to the list who won't admit the players have a point.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:55 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
IMU wrote:
You're clueless. What Pence did is exactly attempting to derail or stifle the protest by 'officially' declaring it disrespectful and saying he (the system) won't give it the time of day.


Ah, now the goalposts are shifting. Where in "leaves the game with an attempt to thwart our efforts" is Reid decidedly not talking about the act of Pence leaving the game? Reid clearly said that Pence leaving the game is oppression of him and his message. Your attempts to pretend that isn't what he was saying are getting ever more colorful.

And no, Pence calling the protests "disrespectful" is not oppressive. It's stupid, but it isn't oppressive.


Other than proving IMU wrong (which is admittedly satisfying), what do you gain from pointing out that Pence leaving a football game isn't literally oppressive?

Football guy says wrong thing! Film at 11.


I think it is important to keep outlandish things like what Reid said in check, because letting people fly off at the handle and say whatever they want without a reality check (here it is lacking out of fear of being labeled an oppressor or worse, as IMU has shown time and again that leftists literally will call you a Nazi for not agreeing with them wholeheartedly) will result in the intended recipients of the message becoming disheartened and frustrated with All The Things That Are Wrong, and shut down instead of listening, or acting, or both.

The misconception is that people seem to think that overstating a problem will entice people to act in opposition to whatever the baseline, real, problem is. The justification is that "well, if people think the executive branch is actively oppressing Eric Reid's message, then more people will act", just like the justification for still using the 1 in 5 statistic is "well, if people think that rape is so widespread on college campuses, they will be more likely to act", the final caveat for both being "so who cares if what is said by [Reid or faulty statistics] is actually accurate".

I don't think that's necessarily true, because at some point, people will either think, because of overstatement and overreaction like Reid's, that the problem (whatever it is) is so widespread there's no chance or point in trying to fight it, or the overreactions will become so galling that even Most People will be able to see them as bullshit, and react negatively to such a brazen attempt to bullshit and control them by someone outside of their ideological comfort zone.

I just don't think it is helpful, in any respect, to be so hyperbolic about these things, and I think such hyperbole is actually detrimental to practical efforts to exact substantive change.


Last edited by Juice's Lecture Notes on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:59 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
IMU wrote:
You're clueless. What Pence did is exactly attempting to derail or stifle the protest by 'officially' declaring it disrespectful and saying he (the system) won't give it the time of day.


Ah, now the goalposts are shifting. Where in "leaves the game with an attempt to thwart our efforts" is Reid decidedly not talking about the act of Pence leaving the game? Reid clearly said that Pence leaving the game is oppression of him and his message. Your attempts to pretend that isn't what he was saying are getting ever more colorful.

And no, Pence calling the protests "disrespectful" is not oppressive. It's stupid, but it isn't oppressive.

Him leaving was an attempt to thwart their efforts because all of those e people like yourself see it as the dog whistle that they are being disrespectful and start yelling again. I'm not sure why you can't see that.


Except I don't see the players kneeling as disrespectful. I mean, insofar as a protest by its very nature is, I don't know, a type of disrespect, I guess? But no, they owe no respect to the flag, the troops, or the song.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:59 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

A lot of stupid things will play with stupid people.

Why does that matter? I mean, did Rick say something about it not playing to the base?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:02 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

I just don't think it is helpful, in any respect, to be so hyperbolic about these things, and I think such hyperbole is actually detrimental to practical efforts to exact substantive change.


hyperbole is the only way people seem to like to speak these days.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:02 am 
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
IMU wrote:
You're clueless. What Pence did is exactly attempting to derail or stifle the protest by 'officially' declaring it disrespectful and saying he (the system) won't give it the time of day.


Ah, now the goalposts are shifting. Where in "leaves the game with an attempt to thwart our efforts" is Reid decidedly not talking about the act of Pence leaving the game? Reid clearly said that Pence leaving the game is oppression of him and his message. Your attempts to pretend that isn't what he was saying are getting ever more colorful.

And no, Pence calling the protests "disrespectful" is not oppressive. It's stupid, but it isn't oppressive.

Him leaving was an attempt to thwart their efforts because all of those e people like yourself see it as the dog whistle that they are being disrespectful and start yelling again. I'm not sure why you can't see that.


Except I don't see the players kneeling as disrespectful. I mean, insofar as a protest by its very nature is, I don't know, a type of disrespect, I guess? But no, they owe no respect to the flag, the troops, or the song.

I don't believe for one second that you don't find it disrespectful, and for you to somehow thing things wasn't just another round of triggering the "Murcia!" crowd is just plain ignorant.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:05 am 
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
IMU wrote:
You're clueless. What Pence did is exactly attempting to derail or stifle the protest by 'officially' declaring it disrespectful and saying he (the system) won't give it the time of day.


Ah, now the goalposts are shifting. Where in "leaves the game with an attempt to thwart our efforts" is Reid decidedly not talking about the act of Pence leaving the game? Reid clearly said that Pence leaving the game is oppression of him and his message. Your attempts to pretend that isn't what he was saying are getting ever more colorful.

And no, Pence calling the protests "disrespectful" is not oppressive. It's stupid, but it isn't oppressive.


Other than proving IMU wrong (which is admittedly satisfying), what do you gain from pointing out that Pence leaving a football game isn't literally oppressive?

Football guy says wrong thing! Film at 11.


I think it is important to keep outlandish things like what Reid said in check, because letting people fly off at the handle and say whatever they want without a reality check (here it is lacking out of fear of being labeled an oppressor or worse, as IMU has shown time and again that leftists literally will call you a Nazi for not agreeing with them wholeheartedly) will result in the intended recipients of the message becoming disheartened and frustrated with All The Things That Are Wrong, and shut down instead of listening, or acting, or both.

The misconception is that people seem to think that overstating a problem will entice people to act in opposition to whatever the baseline, real, problem is. The justification is that "well, if people think the executive branch is actively oppressing Eric Reid's message, then more people will act", just like the justification for still using the 1 in 5 statistic is "well, if people think that rape is so widespread on college campuses, they will be more likely to act", the final caveat for both being "so who cares if what is said by [Reid or faulty statistics] is actually accurate".

I don't think that's necessarily true, because at some point, people will either think, because of overstatement and overreaction like Reid's, that the problem (whatever it is) is so widespread there's no chance or point in trying to fight it, or the overreactions will become so galling that even Most People will be able to see them as bullshit, and react negatively to such a brazen attempt to bullshit and control them by someone outside of their ideological comfort zone.

I just don't think it is helpful, in any respect, to be so hyperbolic about these things, and I think such hyperbole is actually detrimental to practical efforts to exact substantive change.

Reid is being hyperbolic, but the alt right yahoos are just saying what they mean and not being PC.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:06 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Other than proving IMU wrong (which is admittedly satisfying)


How would anyone know how satisfying it is until it happens?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:07 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
[
I don't believe for one second that you don't find it disrespectful, .


He wouldn't personally care if they shit on the flag and slung it into the stands. The thought of arguing about it on the internet with some liberal dopes would get him fired up though.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:07 am 
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W_Z wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

I just don't think it is helpful, in any respect, to be so hyperbolic about these things, and I think such hyperbole is actually detrimental to practical efforts to exact substantive change.


hyperbole is the only way people seem to like to speak these days.

It's a TOP THAT kind of society we live in


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:10 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
IMU wrote:
You're clueless. What Pence did is exactly attempting to derail or stifle the protest by 'officially' declaring it disrespectful and saying he (the system) won't give it the time of day.


Ah, now the goalposts are shifting. Where in "leaves the game with an attempt to thwart our efforts" is Reid decidedly not talking about the act of Pence leaving the game? Reid clearly said that Pence leaving the game is oppression of him and his message. Your attempts to pretend that isn't what he was saying are getting ever more colorful.

And no, Pence calling the protests "disrespectful" is not oppressive. It's stupid, but it isn't oppressive.

Him leaving was an attempt to thwart their efforts because all of those e people like yourself see it as the dog whistle that they are being disrespectful and start yelling again. I'm not sure why you can't see that.


Except I don't see the players kneeling as disrespectful. I mean, insofar as a protest by its very nature is, I don't know, a type of disrespect, I guess? But no, they owe no respect to the flag, the troops, or the song.

I don't believe for one second that you don't find it disrespectful, and for you to somehow thing things wasn't just another round of triggering the "Murcia!" crowd is just plain ignorant.


You would be wrong, then. Again, there's a touch of, for lack of a better term, "disrespect" to any protest like that, and that's the point, otherwise nobody would know that you are protesting—and I do get annoyed when the players or other protesters pretend that such an element doesn't exist. But aside from that, no I do not at all find their protest disrespectful or ungracious or anything like that.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:14 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
[
I don't believe for one second that you don't find it disrespectful, .


He wouldn't personally care if they shit on the flag and slung it into the stands. The thought of arguing about it on the internet with some liberal dopes would get him fired up though.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:19 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

Add another to the list who won't admit the players have a point.



I'm starting to sincerely believe you don't know how to read.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:21 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

Add another to the list who won't admit the players have a point.



I'm starting to sincerely believe you don't know how to read.


Can Seacrest chime in to point out how this shouldn't be viewed as a personal insult?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:28 am 
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

Add another to the list who won't admit the players have a point.



I'm starting to sincerely believe you don't know how to read.

I already sincerely believe that you're just an asshole.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:32 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

Add another to the list who won't admit the players have a point.



I'm starting to sincerely believe you don't know how to read.

I already sincerely believe that you're just an asshole.


Opinions vary.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:35 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

Add another to the list who won't admit the players have a point.



I'm starting to sincerely believe you don't know how to read.


Can Seacrest chime in to point out how this shouldn't be viewed as a personal insult?


I honestly don't mean it as an insult. I simply can't see how anyone with the slightest bit of reading comprehension could infer what he did based on anything I posted. And so it's either that he cannot read or he is waging a campaign- similar to the one waged by Danny B- to mischaracterize what I have actually said.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:36 am 
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Once again, this was the Vice President of the United States doing a publicity stunt attempting to fight back against the protest which is literally about systematic oppression in our country after our idiot President said that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem should be fired by their bosses.

Why can't JLN just accept that sometimes it's ok to say the "other side" has a good point.



Yeah, it was a stunt, but I think you're ignoring how well it plays across America. Look at the approval polls for the NFL before and after the kneeling began.

Add another to the list who won't admit the players have a point.



I'm starting to sincerely believe you don't know how to read.


Can Seacrest chime in to point out how this shouldn't be viewed as a personal insult?


I honestly don't mean it as an insult. I simply can't see how anyone with the slightest bit of reading comprehension could infer what he did based on anything I posted. And so it's either that he cannot read or he is waging a campaign- similar to the one waged by Danny B- to mischaracterize what I have actually said.

Every statement you make when you get called on it you say someone is mischaracterizing what you said. You had out more victim cards than Jesse.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:42 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Opinions vary.

I thought you'd be bigger.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:47 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Every statement you make when you get called on it you say someone is mischaracterizing what you said.


Because you obviously can't read.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:50 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Opinions vary.

I thought you'd be bigger.


Image

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:59 am 
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Every statement you make when you get called on it you say someone is mischaracterizing what you said.


Because you obviously can't read.

READ JUST FINE


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:01 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Every statement you make when you get called on it you say someone is mischaracterizing what you said.


Because you obviously can't read.

READ JUST FINE


I'll give it up for that one. :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:03 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
He is saying that Pence, the Vice President of the entire United States, thinks so little of discrimination and oppression that he walks out because he believes protesting discrimination and oppression is disrespectful to America.


I don't know what Pence's motivations are and I don't care. This is the same goof who wants to "reeducate" homosexuals.

But I will say that there are millions of Americans who have no problem with someone protesting discrimination and oppression and who might even join such protest but who also have an issue with the specific form this particular protest has taken.

Image
Image

And before anyone swoops in to remind everyone that NFL players are not the equivalent of civil rights protesters (plus they're paid millions!), the point is that the people who most often insist that this just isn't the right time or place for any kind of demonstration often believe there's never a right time or place for them.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:07 am 
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Nail on the head.

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