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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

Seacrest wrote:

leashyourkids wrote:

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

We would just have to end all religion. There is a path to doing it, and we are on it here in the West.

Moreso in Western Europe.

Because it worked out so well last century when the Communists did it.

Communism did not end religion. It just put the head of state in the place of god.

yeah tell that to the Jews and other religious types they persecuted...

You are not drawing very good conclusions here. You don't think Stalin wasn't worshipped? Or how about Mao or the head of state in North Korea? Cult of personality became the dominant religion, and others were stomped down on. This is pretty common for religions. Islam is doing the same in the Caliphate.

[
What are you even talking about? Maybe is Christian nations did not decide to slaughter each other en mass from 1914-1918 there would not have been an opportunity for those atrocities. And how many millions were killed in the religious wars before that? It's hilarious when the religious try to point out the atrocities of others. There are a long list of wars fought in god's name, and that does not even take into account everyone who died because science was suppressed by the word of god.

Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

leashyourkids wrote:

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

We would just have to end all religion. There is a path to doing it, and we are on it here in the West.

Moreso in Western Europe.

Europe is becoming more secular and radical Islam is a larger problem there. Notice a correlation? It seems to be radicalization is lower in populations where people are allowed to practice their religions. Pew polls on religion (which are conducted every few years) indicate Muslims in the US are more open to traditionally liberal ideas than their counterparts in Western Europe. For example more Muslims that evangelicals in the US support same sex marriage per the Pew poll.

One of my former students' fathers, a doctor who moved here from Syria when he was 21, said this to me:

"There are different kinds of Muslims in the US: the academic one like me who really are about safe neighborhoods and good futures for their kids. We don't hate gays and blacks, but lower our taxes already. And then the ones who believe in the Giant Spaghetti Monster. You watch--my kids will marry white girls."

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

All you are supporting is that humans kill each other no matter their religion or if they have one at all.

Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

Seacrest wrote:

leashyourkids wrote:

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

We would just have to end all religion. There is a path to doing it, and we are on it here in the West.

Moreso in Western Europe.

Because it worked out so well last century when the Communists did it.

Communism did not end religion. It just put the head of state in the place of god.

yeah tell that to the Jews and other religious types they persecuted...

Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

but hey, keep being a revisionist liar and deny basic historical facts such as the fact Communists tried to eradicate religion via force.

When you eradicate religion, something else will take its place. I think South Park (which is very critical of religion) demonstrated this quite well.

but hey, keep being a revisionist liar and deny basic historical facts such as the fact Communists tried to eradicate religion via force.

The denial of demonstrable historical facts is becoming an epidemic in this country.

Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

You are the one being dishonest. Communism tried to replace one religion with another. And South Park is your statement on the path of humanity?

Your religion is just as made up as Islam. You can cling to it if you want, but it's human made ignorance. When you can get past that you can start to see a path out. You do not need imaginary sky gods to live a moral life or to feel a part of something larger. And if we trust science it will have answers for some of the questions that religion created stories to answer.

And if we trust science it will have answers for some of the questions that religion created stories to answer.

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy.

Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy.

States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate.

That's the entire point, when you eliminate religion, the role it filled will invariably be filled by something else. Please tell me this is an act, you can't possibly be this dense.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy.

States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy.

States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate.

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. Religions are illogical and irrational ways to run a country. Christians learned this already. Others need to catch up.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. Religions are illogical and irrational ways to run a country. Christians learned this already. Others need to catch up.

But Christianity doesn't make and never did make a demand upon its followers to execute God's plan for conquest during their time on earth.

I have a big issue with this statement that Neil Steinberg made in today's column:

"A Muslim blowing himself up does not prove the blood-thirstiness of Islam, nor does a deranged Bernie Sanders supporter undercut Democrats, nor do Republican extremists who go on rampages tar the GOP."

There is no plank in the Democratic or Republican parties' charters about the conversion or destruction of non-believers. The assumption that a person is "deranged" for actually believing the contents of a "holy book" demands a much deeper examination than simply writing off them off as such due to their very logical adherence to the specific demands of a religion that millions of others purport to follow.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. Religions are illogical and irrational ways to run a country. Christians learned this already. Others need to catch up.

Hatchetman wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy.

States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate.

Sounds like you missed his point.

What were the directives that you are referring to brick?

Just please stop trying to compare radical Christianity in 2017 to radical Islam. The nut job Bible thumpers today are refusing to bake cakes for your gay wedding. Not threatening death.

What were the directives that you are referring to brick?

FavreFan wrote:

Hatchetman wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy.

States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate.

Sounds like you missed his point.

It's becoming damn near impossible to have a rational discussion with religious people. They don't even address the points you make.

As far as I'm aware, no one in this thread has called for the state eradication of religion (that would be completely un-American), yet two of these guys are rambling on about communist Russia. And they're blaming a religion (Islam) expanding because of a lack of religion in the area.

Caller Bob wrote:

Just please stop trying to compare radical Christianity in 2017 to radical Islam. The nut job Bible thumpers today are refusing to bake cakes for your gay wedding. Not threatening death.

To my knowledge, no one is arguing to the contrary.

Seacrest wrote:

What were the directives that you are referring to brick?

The ones that you "aren't supposed to take literally". I'm sure you know them.

Author:	Ogie Oglethorpe [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: Seacrest wrote: leashyourkids wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: We would just have to end all religion. There is a path to doing it, and we are on it here in the West. Moreso in Western Europe. Because it worked out so well last century when the Communists did it. Communism did not end religion. It just put the head of state in the place of god. yeah tell that to the Jews and other religious types they persecuted... You are not drawing very good conclusions here. You don't think Stalin wasn't worshipped? Or how about Mao or the head of state in North Korea? Cult of personality became the dominant religion, and others were stomped down on. This is pretty common for religions. Islam is doing the same in the Caliphate. When you eradicate religion, something else will take its place. I think South Park (which is very critical of religion) demonstrated this quite well. but hey, keep being a revisionist liar and deny basic historical facts such as the fact Communists tried to eradicate religion via force.

Author:	Hatchetman [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: [ What are you even talking about? Maybe is Christian nations did not decide to slaughter each other en mass from 1914-1918 there would not have been an opportunity for those atrocities. And how many millions were killed in the religious wars before that? It's hilarious when the religious try to point out the atrocities of others. There are a long list of wars fought in god's name, and that does not even take into account everyone who died because science was suppressed by the word of god. All you are supporting is that humans kill each other no matter their religion or if they have one at all.

Author:	Ogie Oglethorpe [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
formerlyknownas wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: leashyourkids wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: We would just have to end all religion. There is a path to doing it, and we are on it here in the West. Moreso in Western Europe. Europe is becoming more secular and radical Islam is a larger problem there. Notice a correlation? It seems to be radicalization is lower in populations where people are allowed to practice their religions. Pew polls on religion (which are conducted every few years) indicate Muslims in the US are more open to traditionally liberal ideas than their counterparts in Western Europe. For example more Muslims that evangelicals in the US support same sex marriage per the Pew poll. One of my former students' fathers, a doctor who moved here from Syria when he was 21, said this to me: "There are different kinds of Muslims in the US: the academic one like me who really are about safe neighborhoods and good futures for their kids. We don't hate gays and blacks, but lower our taxes already. And then the ones who believe in the Giant Spaghetti Monster. You watch--my kids will marry white girls." exactly, give a religious minority group in the West the freedom and ability to practice their religion and they will naturally drift away from it and assimilate into the culture around them. Persecute them and they will drive more inward and become radicalized.

Author:	Ogie Oglethorpe [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Hatchetman wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: [ What are you even talking about? Maybe is Christian nations did not decide to slaughter each other en mass from 1914-1918 there would not have been an opportunity for those atrocities. And how many millions were killed in the religious wars before that? It's hilarious when the religious try to point out the atrocities of others. There are a long list of wars fought in god's name, and that does not even take into account everyone who died because science was suppressed by the word of god. All you are supporting is that humans kill each other no matter their religion or if they have one at all. I'd also love to know the religious aspects behind WWI as I'm pretty sure the history on that (Massie's Dreadnought really goes into this) is that it was geopolitics that drove that war, not religion. Wilhem II's ineptitude after dumping Bismarck caused that. He tried to run the Bismarckian system without Bismark and it drove former rivals Russia, UK, and France into each other's arms through a series of blunders.

Author:	Seacrest [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: Seacrest wrote: leashyourkids wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: We would just have to end all religion. There is a path to doing it, and we are on it here in the West. Moreso in Western Europe. Because it worked out so well last century when the Communists did it. Communism did not end religion. It just put the head of state in the place of god. yeah tell that to the Jews and other religious types they persecuted... Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: but hey, keep being a revisionist liar and deny basic historical facts such as the fact Communists tried to eradicate religion via force. The denial of demonstrable historical facts is becoming an epidemic in this country.

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Mosque Attack http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=107059	Page 4 of 10

Author:	WaitingforRuffcorn [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: When you eradicate religion, something else will take its place. I think South Park (which is very critical of religion) demonstrated this quite well. but hey, keep being a revisionist liar and deny basic historical facts such as the fact Communists tried to eradicate religion via force. You are the one being dishonest. Communism tried to replace one religion with another. And South Park is your statement on the path of humanity? Your religion is just as made up as Islam. You can cling to it if you want, but it's human made ignorance. When you can get past that you can start to see a path out. You do not need imaginary sky gods to live a moral life or to feel a part of something larger. And if we trust science it will have answers for some of the questions that religion created stories to answer.

Author:	Hatchetman [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: And if we trust science it will have answers for some of the questions that religion created stories to answer. Some but never all which is why religion will never disappear until the last human does.

Author:	Brick [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. Religions are illogical and irrational ways to run a country. Christians learned this already. Others need to catch up.

Author:	Hatchetman [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate.

Author:	formerlyknownas [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: When you eradicate religion, something else will take its place. I think South Park (which is very critical of religion) demonstrated this quite well. but hey, keep being a revisionist liar and deny basic historical facts such as the fact Communists tried to eradicate religion via force. You are the one being dishonest. Communism tried to replace one religion with another. And South Park is your statement on the path of humanity? Your religion is just as made up as Islam. You can cling to it if you want, but it's human made ignorance. When you can get past that you can start to see a path out. You do not need imaginary sky gods to live a moral life or to feel a part of something larger. And if we trust science it will have answers for some of the questions that religion created stories to answer. I hear you, but science is driven by business as much as truth. I guess everything is...but I don't have too much faith in the goodness of science...

Author:	Brick [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Hatchetman wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate. The money and power comes from Islamic states.

Author:	FavreFan [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Hatchetman wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate. Sounds like you missed his point.

Author:	Joe Orr Road Rod [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. Religions are illogical and irrational ways to run a country. Christians learned this already. Others need to catch up. But Christianity doesn't make and never did make a demand upon its followers to execute God's plan for conquest during their time on earth. I have a big issue with this statement that Neil Steinberg made in today's column: "A Muslim blowing himself up does not prove the blood-thirstiness of Islam, nor does a deranged Bernie Sanders supporter undercut Democrats, nor do Republican extremists who go on rampages tar the GOP." There is no plank in the Democratic or Republican parties' charters about the conversion or destruction of non-believers. The assumption that a person is "deranged" for actually believing the contents of a "holy book" demands a much deeper examination than simply writing off them off as such due to their very logical adherence to the specific demands of a religion that millions of others purport to follow.

Author:	Brick [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. Religions are illogical and irrational ways to run a country. Christians learned this already. Others need to catch up. But Christianity doesn't make and never did make a demand upon its followers to execute God's plan for conquest during their time on earth. I have a big issue with this statement that Neil Steinberg made in today's column: "A Muslim blowing himself up does not prove the blood-thirstiness of Islam, nor does a deranged Bernie Sanders supporter undercut Democrats, nor do Republican extremists who go on rampages tar the GOP." There is no plank in the Democratic or Republican parties' charters about the conversion or destruction of non-believers. The assumption that a person is "deranged" for actually believing the contents of a "holy book" demands a much deeper examination than simply writing off them off as such due to their very logical adherence to the specific demands of a religion that millions of others purport to follow. It's kind of a chicken or the egg type of situation though. Christianity had some messed up directives too. They may not have reached that level but it wasn't until the power of religion was lessened to the point where they weren't in charge of the land that people started to be able to change things.

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Author:	Seacrest [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
What were the directives that you are referring to brick?

Author:	leashyourkids [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
FavreFan wrote: Hatchetman wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate. Sounds like you missed his point. It's becoming damn near impossible to have a rational discussion with religious people. They don't even address the points you make. As far as I'm aware, no one in this thread has called for the state eradication of religion (that would be completely un-American), yet two of these guys are rambling on about communist Russia. And they're blaming a religion (Islam) expanding because of a lack of religion in the area.

Author:	Caller Bob [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Just please stop trying to compare radical Christianity in 2017 to radical Islam. The nut job Bible thumpers today are refusing to bake cakes for your gay wedding. Not threatening death.

Author:	Brick [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Seacrest wrote: What were the directives that you are referring to brick? The ones that you "aren't supposed to take literally". I'm sure you know them.

Author:	Caller Bob [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Radical Islam is enabled by the Regressive Left in the United States. They see calling out the atrocities fostered by Islamic teaching as "proxy" support for the far right wing party. When in reality they should be consistent in calling out the bullshit of both Christianity AND Islam.

Author:	Seacrest [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
leashyourkids wrote: FavreFan wrote: Hatchetman wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy. States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate. Sounds like you missed his point. It's becoming damn near impossible to have a rational discussion with religious people. They don't even address the points you make. As far as I'm aware, no one in this thread has called for the state eradication of religion (that would be completely un-American), yet two of these guys are rambling on about communist Russia. And they're blaming a religion (Islam) expanding because of a lack of religion in the area. What a great response. It's hard to have a conversation with people that acknowledge history that I choose to deny because I'm too lazy to investigate said history, or I simply choose to deny its existence.

Author:	Caller Bob [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
leashyourkids wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Just please stop trying to compare radical Christianity in 2017 to radical Islam. The nut job Bible thumpers today are refusing to bake cakes for your gay wedding. Not threatening death. To my knowledge, no one is arguing to the contrary. Rufficorn was starting to go there..and Long Time Guy is always guilty of this. wait till he arrives in this thread...

Author:	Seacrest [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mosque Attack
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Seacrest wrote: What were the directives that you are referring to brick? The ones that you "aren't supposed to take literally". I'm sure you know them. I don't. Speak up.