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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Do you think this protest is making America better?


Do they make the majority of white America happy? No. Are these conversations healthy? Yes.



I don't think using terms like "white America" or "black America" is particularly helpful though. It assumes that all voices are the same based on skin color. And of course skin color plays a part in our experiences, but countless other things do too.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant when I said I can understand a black American feeling different about the flag than a white person. I've had this conversation with a white guy who I consider a racist and one of his go-to lines is that "Michelle Obama doesn't love America like I do". My answer is always that her experiences are different than his. You have to be able to at least imagine what it's like to walk in the other guy's shoes.

That's my problem with the latest Coates article. I don't begrudge him his feelings. He just doesn't supply any answers. And beyond that, he's personally doing very well. Much better than most white people I know. I don't think it's right to say that Coates or Marc Lamont Hill are "blacker" than Thomas Sowell or Larry Elder. They all have different viewpoints and happen to be black.



One of my instructors once had us provide a critique of one of Thomas Sowell's books, "Vision of the Anointed". I considered playing the race card as part of the critique because I felt that he was overly critical of blacks. I'd never heard of Sowell prior to reading the book. I didn't bring up race in my assessment but I was tempted. I just remember that the instructor wrote "You'd be surprised to know that he was black wouldn't you" in the comment section.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Hitler was elected and then immediately took absolute power away from parliament. What would the proper term for that be called?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Do you think this protest is making America better?


Do they make the majority of white America happy? No. Are these conversations healthy? Yes.



I don't think using terms like "white America" or "black America" is particularly helpful though. It assumes that all voices are the same based on skin color. And of course skin color plays a part in our experiences, but countless other things do too.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant when I said I can understand a black American feeling different about the flag than a white person. I've had this conversation with a white guy who I consider a racist and one of his go-to lines is that "Michelle Obama doesn't love America like I do". My answer is always that her experiences are different than his. You have to be able to at least imagine what it's like to walk in the other guy's shoes.

That's my problem with the latest Coates article. I don't begrudge him his feelings. He just doesn't supply any answers. And beyond that, he's personally doing very well. Much better than most white people I know. I don't think it's right to say that Coates or Marc Lamont Hill are "blacker" than Thomas Sowell or Larry Elder. They all have different viewpoints and happen to be black.


I use the term white America because that is where the overwhelming majority of of the complaints about this protest and MANY others come from. There is no need to pretend this hasn't historically been true whenever there is talk about oppression and equality.

No I don't understand what you mean when you say blacks may feel differently about the flag and America than a white person. I also completely disagree with your friend and MANY others that feel white America loves this country more than blacks ever can or will. I would argue that blacks love this country and what the flag represents more than white America. Despite being abused and oppressed we have fought and died for America. Fought and died for freedoms and opportunities that didn't apply to us. Every step of the way we have pushed her to become an even greater nation than she was. We stand with our hands over our hearts with pride because we love this country even though she doesn't always love us back.

Whenever blacks push America to make progress the majority of white America stands up and resist. Why? The majority of white America cares more about comfort than they care about equality and freedom. That's why a guy who has done as well as you have asks if blacks kneeling and protesting for equality want to kill you or completely destroy our country. This movement for progress makes you and the majority of white America uncomfortable.

Why dismiss what he says because of his bank account? His success is what has given him the platform to say these things. Coates writing started a dialogue. Same is true for Kaepernick's kneeling. It's a healthy and uncomfortable dialogue that hopefully will push America to even greater heights.


Pointing out racists is both easy and comfortable for many.

Having a conversation moves past pointing fingers to "how can this be changed!" That is the tough part.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:07 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Do you think this protest is making America better?


Do they make the majority of white America happy? No. Are these conversations healthy? Yes.



I don't think using terms like "white America" or "black America" is particularly helpful though. It assumes that all voices are the same based on skin color. And of course skin color plays a part in our experiences, but countless other things do too.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant when I said I can understand a black American feeling different about the flag than a white person. I've had this conversation with a white guy who I consider a racist and one of his go-to lines is that "Michelle Obama doesn't love America like I do". My answer is always that her experiences are different than his. You have to be able to at least imagine what it's like to walk in the other guy's shoes.

That's my problem with the latest Coates article. I don't begrudge him his feelings. He just doesn't supply any answers. And beyond that, he's personally doing very well. Much better than most white people I know. I don't think it's right to say that Coates or Marc Lamont Hill are "blacker" than Thomas Sowell or Larry Elder. They all have different viewpoints and happen to be black.


I use the term white America because that is where the overwhelming majority of of the complaints about this protest and MANY others come from. There is no need to pretend this hasn't historically been true whenever there is talk about oppression and equality.

No I don't understand what you mean when you say blacks may feel differently about the flag and America than a white person. I also completely disagree with your friend and MANY others that feel white America loves this country more than blacks ever can or will. I would argue that blacks love this country and what the flag represents more than white America. Despite being abused and oppressed we have fought and died for America. Fought and died for freedoms and opportunities that didn't apply to us. Every step of the way we have pushed her to become an even greater nation than she was. We stand with our hands over our hearts with pride because we love this country even though she doesn't always love us back.

Whenever blacks push America to make progress the majority of white America stands up and resist. Why? The majority of white America cares more about comfort than they care about equality and freedom. That's why a guy who has done as well as you have asks if blacks kneeling and protesting for equality want to kill you or completely destroy our country. This movement for progress makes you and the majority of white America uncomfortable.

Why dismiss what he says because of his bank account? His success is what has given him the platform to say these things. Coates writing started a dialogue. Same is true for Kaepernick's kneeling. It's a healthy and uncomfortable dialogue that hopefully will push America to even greater heights.


Pointing out racists is both easy and comfortable for many.

Having a conversation moves past pointing fingers to "how can this be changed!" That is the tough part.

Yeah, like pointing out people who watched The Wire!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:59 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Hitler was elected and then immediately took absolute power away from parliament. What would the proper term for that be called?

Shrewdness. (Giving himself temporary duties and powers.)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Do you think this protest is making America better?


Do they make the majority of white America happy? No. Are these conversations healthy? Yes.



I don't think using terms like "white America" or "black America" is particularly helpful though. It assumes that all voices are the same based on skin color. And of course skin color plays a part in our experiences, but countless other things do too.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant when I said I can understand a black American feeling different about the flag than a white person. I've had this conversation with a white guy who I consider a racist and one of his go-to lines is that "Michelle Obama doesn't love America like I do". My answer is always that her experiences are different than his. You have to be able to at least imagine what it's like to walk in the other guy's shoes.

That's my problem with the latest Coates article. I don't begrudge him his feelings. He just doesn't supply any answers. And beyond that, he's personally doing very well. Much better than most white people I know. I don't think it's right to say that Coates or Marc Lamont Hill are "blacker" than Thomas Sowell or Larry Elder. They all have different viewpoints and happen to be black.


I use the term white America because that is where the overwhelming majority of of the complaints about this protest and MANY others come from. There is no need to pretend this hasn't historically been true whenever there is talk about oppression and equality.

No I don't understand what you mean when you say blacks may feel differently about the flag and America than a white person. I also completely disagree with your friend and MANY others that feel white America loves this country more than blacks ever can or will. I would argue that blacks love this country and what the flag represents more than white America. Despite being abused and oppressed we have fought and died for America. Fought and died for freedoms and opportunities that didn't apply to us. Every step of the way we have pushed her to become an even greater nation than she was. We stand with our hands over our hearts with pride because we love this country even though she doesn't always love us back.

Whenever blacks push America to make progress the majority of white America stands up and resist. Why? The majority of white America cares more about comfort than they care about equality and freedom. That's why a guy who has done as well as you have asks if blacks kneeling and protesting for equality want to kill you or completely destroy our country. This movement for progress makes you and the majority of white America uncomfortable.

Why dismiss what he says because of his bank account? His success is what has given him the platform to say these things. Coates writing started a dialogue. Same is true for Kaepernick's kneeling. It's a healthy and uncomfortable dialogue that hopefully will push America to even greater heights.


Pointing out racists is both easy and comfortable for many.

Having a conversation moves past pointing fingers to "how can this be changed!" That is the tough part.


It's all part of progress. Everyone is going to hear something that makes them uncomfortable.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Do you think this protest is making America better?


Do they make the majority of white America happy? No. Are these conversations healthy? Yes.



I don't think using terms like "white America" or "black America" is particularly helpful though. It assumes that all voices are the same based on skin color. And of course skin color plays a part in our experiences, but countless other things do too.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant when I said I can understand a black American feeling different about the flag than a white person. I've had this conversation with a white guy who I consider a racist and one of his go-to lines is that "Michelle Obama doesn't love America like I do". My answer is always that her experiences are different than his. You have to be able to at least imagine what it's like to walk in the other guy's shoes.

That's my problem with the latest Coates article. I don't begrudge him his feelings. He just doesn't supply any answers. And beyond that, he's personally doing very well. Much better than most white people I know. I don't think it's right to say that Coates or Marc Lamont Hill are "blacker" than Thomas Sowell or Larry Elder. They all have different viewpoints and happen to be black.


I use the term white America because that is where the overwhelming majority of of the complaints about this protest and MANY others come from. There is no need to pretend this hasn't historically been true whenever there is talk about oppression and equality.

No I don't understand what you mean when you say blacks may feel differently about the flag and America than a white person. I also completely disagree with your friend and MANY others that feel white America loves this country more than blacks ever can or will. I would argue that blacks love this country and what the flag represents more than white America. Despite being abused and oppressed we have fought and died for America. Fought and died for freedoms and opportunities that didn't apply to us. Every step of the way we have pushed her to become an even greater nation than she was. We stand with our hands over our hearts with pride because we love this country even though she doesn't always love us back.

Whenever blacks push America to make progress the majority of white America stands up and resist. Why? The majority of white America cares more about comfort than they care about equality and freedom. That's why a guy who has done as well as you have asks if blacks kneeling and protesting for equality want to kill you or completely destroy our country. This movement for progress makes you and the majority of white America uncomfortable.

Why dismiss what he says because of his bank account? His success is what has given him the platform to say these things. Coates writing started a dialogue. Same is true for Kaepernick's kneeling. It's a healthy and uncomfortable dialogue that hopefully will push America to even greater heights.


Pointing out racists is both easy and comfortable for many.

Having a conversation moves past pointing fingers to "how can this be changed!" That is the tough part.


It's all part of progress. Everyone is going to hear something that makes them uncomfortable.


It's time to move to the next step here.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:26 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Do you think this protest is making America better?


Do they make the majority of white America happy? No. Are these conversations healthy? Yes.



I don't think using terms like "white America" or "black America" is particularly helpful though. It assumes that all voices are the same based on skin color. And of course skin color plays a part in our experiences, but countless other things do too.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant when I said I can understand a black American feeling different about the flag than a white person. I've had this conversation with a white guy who I consider a racist and one of his go-to lines is that "Michelle Obama doesn't love America like I do". My answer is always that her experiences are different than his. You have to be able to at least imagine what it's like to walk in the other guy's shoes.

That's my problem with the latest Coates article. I don't begrudge him his feelings. He just doesn't supply any answers. And beyond that, he's personally doing very well. Much better than most white people I know. I don't think it's right to say that Coates or Marc Lamont Hill are "blacker" than Thomas Sowell or Larry Elder. They all have different viewpoints and happen to be black.


I use the term white America because that is where the overwhelming majority of of the complaints about this protest and MANY others come from. There is no need to pretend this hasn't historically been true whenever there is talk about oppression and equality.

No I don't understand what you mean when you say blacks may feel differently about the flag and America than a white person. I also completely disagree with your friend and MANY others that feel white America loves this country more than blacks ever can or will. I would argue that blacks love this country and what the flag represents more than white America. Despite being abused and oppressed we have fought and died for America. Fought and died for freedoms and opportunities that didn't apply to us. Every step of the way we have pushed her to become an even greater nation than she was. We stand with our hands over our hearts with pride because we love this country even though she doesn't always love us back.

Whenever blacks push America to make progress the majority of white America stands up and resist. Why? The majority of white America cares more about comfort than they care about equality and freedom. That's why a guy who has done as well as you have asks if blacks kneeling and protesting for equality want to kill you or completely destroy our country. This movement for progress makes you and the majority of white America uncomfortable.

Why dismiss what he says because of his bank account? His success is what has given him the platform to say these things. Coates writing started a dialogue. Same is true for Kaepernick's kneeling. It's a healthy and uncomfortable dialogue that hopefully will push America to even greater heights.


I don't speak for all white people and you don't speak for all black people. Viewpoints aren't based on skin color.

I'm not the white guy who got angry when Reverend Wright said, "Goddamn America." I understood his viewpoint. There are obviously some black people who feel the U.S. is irredeemable. There are also some white people who feel that way. To deny such a thing is to be dishonest.

Modern Leftism in America is based on blaming the white European Christian male for all the ills in the world. To the point that praising the great symphonies is now seen as racist. It's a very simplistic ideology. And here's why Coates's financial success matters. Because it's disingenuous to constantly rail against Western culture while living in luxury derived from that culture.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:38 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Because it's disingenuous to constantly rail against Western culture while living in luxury derived from that culture.


I just re-read this sentence that I wrote and started laughing thinking about Seacrest busting my balls for driving a Benz. But I will say that trying to figure out a better way isn't the same as shitting on the way we've got. I can see a world without property rights, but I don't know how to implement it. That's why I'm not a politician. Or a revolutionary.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:44 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Because it's disingenuous to constantly rail against Western culture while living in luxury derived from that culture.


I just re-read this sentence that I wrote and started laughing thinking about Seacrest busting my balls for driving a Benz. But I will say that trying to figure out a better way isn't the same as shitting on the way we've got. I can see a world without property rights, but I don't know how to implement it. That's why I'm not a politician. Or a revolutionary.



You are an activist that complains about the suffering of the poor while driving around in a Mercedez Benz.

That makes you more like a politician though.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:38 am 
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I have had a decent number of these uncomfortable conversations with friends, family, and co workers over the years. I've recounted them and their results in the past. Most of the time, I didn't make much progress, sometimes I did, so its worth it to try in some cases.

But you have to be willing to possibly damage or alter the relationship. That is tough. I think that's why so many people (me in the past) excuse their family or older people.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:22 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Because it's disingenuous to constantly rail against Western culture while living in luxury derived from that culture.


I just re-read this sentence that I wrote and started laughing thinking about Seacrest busting my balls for driving a Benz. But I will say that trying to figure out a better way isn't the same as shitting on the way we've got. I can see a world without property rights, but I don't know how to implement it. That's why I'm not a politician. Or a revolutionary.



You are an activist that complains about the suffering of the poor while driving around in a Mercedez Benz.

That makes you more like a politician though.
Would it be better if he instead just took whatever stance his church told him to take?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:25 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I have had a decent number of these uncomfortable conversations with friends, family, and co workers over the years. I've recounted them and their results in the past. Most of the time, I didn't make much progress, sometimes I did, so its worth it to try in some cases.

But you have to be willing to possibly damage or alter the relationship. That is tough. I think that's why so many people (me in the past) excuse their family or older people.

Very true. Besides, you can only persuade people who are open to it.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:26 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I have had a decent number of these uncomfortable conversations with friends, family, and co workers over the years.


But you're afraid to have the conversation with people at a party?!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:27 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I have had a decent number of these uncomfortable conversations with friends, family, and co workers over the years.


But you're afraid to have the conversation with people at a party?!

Im shy. Not a big talker.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:31 am 
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long time guy wrote:
SuperMario wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The use of the term lionizing is an exaggeration too. Kaepernick if I'm going to infer probably originally wore the T-shirt with regards to Castro the revolutionary and not Castro the Dictator. He also alluded to Malcolm X which leads me to believe that he has a thing for revolutionary types. Many people that fashion themselves as revolutionaries have taken to that sort of garb. When pressed he referenced the education system. If I had to fathom a response that would be it.


Haha. Sorry, but this cracked me up. Hitler was a revolutionary as well. I suppose if I wear a Hitler shirt during his upstart revolutionary days versus his dictator days, then I can justify it being ok.



Hitler wasn't a revolutionary. German people voted him and his party into office.


Wrong. Early on that is the approach he took. Look up the Beer Hall Putsch. Hitler tried to perform a coup in Bavaria to seize power. He was imprisoned for it, which is when he wrote Mein Kampf.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:35 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I have had a decent number of these uncomfortable conversations with friends, family, and co workers over the years. I've recounted them and their results in the past. Most of the time, I didn't make much progress, sometimes I did, so its worth it to try in some cases.

But you have to be willing to possibly damage or alter the relationship. That is tough. I think that's why so many people (me in the past) excuse their family or older people.
Racism is an irrational stance to take. It makes it nearly impossible to argue against.

"Hello racist, have you considered that minorities are people just like us and pretty much any negative feeling you have about them is just because of either selection bias, or a lack of experience with that group?"
"Wow. I never thought of that. My mind is changed!".

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:44 am 
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Nas wrote:
No I don't understand what you mean when you say blacks may feel differently about the flag and America than a white person. I also completely disagree with your friend and MANY others that feel white America loves this country more than blacks ever can or will. I would argue that blacks love this country and what the flag represents more than white America. Despite being abused and oppressed we have fought and died for America. Fought and died for freedoms and opportunities that didn't apply to us. Every step of the way we have pushed her to become an even greater nation than she was. We stand with our hands over our hearts with pride because we love this country even though she doesn't always love us back.

Whenever blacks push America to make progress the majority of white America stands up and resist. Why? The majority of white America cares more about comfort than they care about equality and freedom. That's why a guy who has done as well as you have asks if blacks kneeling and protesting for equality want to kill you or completely destroy our country. This movement for progress makes you and the majority of white America uncomfortable.


Also, I want to say that this is some very eloquent writing, although I will point out that I'm certainly not uncomfortable with any movement for progress and I've told you more than once that I am personally undisturbed by the players doing whatever they want to do during the anthem.

And I agree that most black Americans feel exactly as you describe above, which is kind of the point. America as a whole- and that includes blacks, Latinos, Muslims, etc.- is far more conservative than one would gather from watching American television. I believe the average black American has views more in line with those of long time guy than with those of Ta-Nehisi Coates. And most of those Americans- black and white- do see a disrespect for the flag, whether they agree with the goals of the players or not.

Especially when you have Trump making it about the flag. And he knows exactly what he's doing in doing so. Trump may be a dope but he isn't dumb when it comes to campaigning. What he did in the 2016 election will be studied for years to come. And he's still campaigning and hitting this NFL stuff as hard as he is is part of that.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:45 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I have had a decent number of these uncomfortable conversations with friends, family, and co workers over the years. I've recounted them and their results in the past. Most of the time, I didn't make much progress, sometimes I did, so its worth it to try in some cases.

But you have to be willing to possibly damage or alter the relationship. That is tough. I think that's why so many people (me in the past) excuse their family or older people.
Racism is an irrational stance to take. It makes it nearly impossible to argue against.

"Hello racist, have you considered that minorities are people just like us and pretty much any negative feeling you have about them is just because of either selection bias, or a lack of experience with that group?"
"Wow. I never thought of that. My mind is changed!".



It definitely is not easy to have frank discussions on matters that involve race. I am not certain the mentioned comfortability is the factor.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:56 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
No I don't understand what you mean when you say blacks may feel differently about the flag and America than a white person. I also completely disagree with your friend and MANY others that feel white America loves this country more than blacks ever can or will. I would argue that blacks love this country and what the flag represents more than white America. Despite being abused and oppressed we have fought and died for America. Fought and died for freedoms and opportunities that didn't apply to us. Every step of the way we have pushed her to become an even greater nation than she was. We stand with our hands over our hearts with pride because we love this country even though she doesn't always love us back.

Whenever blacks push America to make progress the majority of white America stands up and resist. Why? The majority of white America cares more about comfort than they care about equality and freedom. That's why a guy who has done as well as you have asks if blacks kneeling and protesting for equality want to kill you or completely destroy our country. This movement for progress makes you and the majority of white America uncomfortable.


Also, I want to say that this is some very eloquent writing, although I will point out that I'm certainly not uncomfortable with any movement for progress and I've told you more than once that I am personally undisturbed by the players doing whatever they want to do during the anthem.

And I agree that most black Americans feel exactly as you describe above, which is kind of the point. America as a whole- and that includes blacks, Latinos, Muslims, etc.- is far more conservative than one would gather from watching American television. I believe the average black American has views more in line with those of long time guy than with those of Ta-Nehisi Coates. And most of those Americans- black and white- do see a disrespect for the flag, whether they agree with the goals of the players or not.

Especially when you have Trump making it about the flag. And he knows exactly what he's doing in doing so. Trump may be a dope but he isn't dumb when it comes to campaigning. What he did in the 2016 election will be studied for years to come. And he's still campaigning and hitting this NFL stuff as hard as he is is part of that.


If Nas was white you would never have pointed out his eloquence.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:57 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
When is the right time to protest injustice and oppression? Should it be peaceful? Should it be silent? Where should the protests be held? How do you do it without pissing off the majority of white America? How do you get the majority white America to be supportive of your cause?

It's 2017 but JORR and MANY others are still making the tired arguments that have been made for decades. There will never be a time where the majority of white America will be sympathetic to any cause that doesn't involve them. People can tie themselves in knots trying to explain how or why this protest is being done improperly but the same will be true for every future protest.



I'm not making any argument at all. I'm just pointing out that MANY people don't like guys kneeling for the anthem. Do they have that right?


You're not but you are. The majority of white America has a right to feel however they want to feel. Reality is there will NEVER be a cause that doesn't involve them that they will be supportive of. The complaints about every protest is just bullshit in the end.

I agree. White Americans like below are the problem here

Nas wrote:
This helps Trump. MANY people believe that our country has lost its identity.

Nas wrote:
I think there is some truth to their gripe. People aren't really proud to be an American anymore.

As a black man on a message board, I would have to agree.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:11 pm 
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So is this now the go to thread if you want LTG to lock you up?

Asking for a friend.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:54 pm 
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at least til NBA season tips.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:44 pm 
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I'm not exactly sure of the elements of collusion, but absent a smoking gun chain of communication in which owners mutually agreed to sign Kaep, his case will be entirely of the circumstantial "I'm better than this guy, but they hired him over me" variety.

And is not wanting to sign a guy because of the media circus he would bring to your team unlawful?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I'm not exactly sure of the elements of collusion, but absent a smoking gun chain of communication in which owners mutually agreed to sign Kaep, his case will be entirely of the circumstantial "I'm better than this guy, but they hired him over me" variety.

And is not wanting to sign a guy because of the media circus he would bring to your team unlawful?


I think that's basically what happened with Barry Bonds. He had an OBP of .480 (!) and SLG of .565 in his final year and no one wanted him with all the baggage.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:50 pm 
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All relevant NFL owners independently arrived at the conclusion that the added media baggage of Colin Kaepernick is not worth the investment. That seems rather plausible.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I'm not exactly sure of the elements of collusion, but absent a smoking gun chain of communication in which owners mutually agreed to sign Kaep, his case will be entirely of the circumstantial "I'm better than this guy, but they hired him over me" variety.

And is not wanting to sign a guy because of the media circus he would bring to your team unlawful?

Knowing how stupid people are, even in elevated positions like that, it wouldn't shock me if there was something going around.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:23 pm 
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they should collude and have some shitty team sign him to be their #2 QB. Story over.

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