Pew usually does a good job. I wanted to put this out there. I am going to read through this stuff and then comment. Enjoy.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/americ ... 2017-04-24

Edit: Full Report From Pew (very long)

http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/04/24/mid ... rn-europe/

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Good stats in there. The middle class is shrinking mainly because more people are into the upper income tier. The U.S. basically has the highest percentage in the upper income tier and the highest median household income. There is a tripling of households making over $100k per year in inflation adjusted income. However, there is bad news, we have the largest percentage in the lower income tier.

I guess this lines up with our cultural values and views on the free market relative to Europe.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

There is also some fudging of the numbers. I would say in many markets $100k or slightly over is not upper middle class. It's middle class give the rising prices of housing, education and health-care.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Did you catch the page 1 WSJ article on student loans taken out by parents? My goodness, that is such a ticking time bomb.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

529's people. If you have young children, you better start throwing money into them. My wife and I started one for our 6 month old

We worked hard over the last 4 years to clear up $80k in student loan debt. We're making sure our kid doesn't need to take out such loans.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Brightstart is a good option with its age adjusted index funds. Very low cost. But the best part is you put saving on auto pilot with dollar cost average investing. I just have it automatically take money every month. Been doing that since the kids were born, and thank goodness, because college is right around the corner.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

There is a bit of a parental sickness when it comes to paying for their children's college. If you can sure do all you can and I do. But the lengths that some are going to are pretty extreme i.e. parental loans. Even worse are the people that are in some state of depression because they can't do more.

I was at a small work social gathering not long ago and this co worker of mine was quite distressed. We were talking about kids at school and at some point I said I am prepared to give my kids an undergrad degree and then they are on their own. He was shocked and seriously asked me if it was ok for him to do the same.

Turns out he has drained his savings to send his kid away to Georgetown for 3.5 years. 50--60K per year. Now the kid requires a masters at minimum to really be in a great career. He was really down about this and not sure what he was going to do.

If he insisted on paying he should have insisted on a cheaper school and so on to make it happen. Way too often our kids are the tail that wags the dog and sometimes it is too much.

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I've said it once and I'll say it again... higher education defies the laws of economics in America. Basic tenet of economics: all actors are rational and looking out for their own best interest financially. This is not the case with college debt. People don't figure the ROI of a college education. And maybe they shouldn't calculate one in terms of only dollars and cents... but what we have today is a gross inflation of the value of education from an earnings perspective. The problem is that college is ingrained in the American culture. It's part of the American Dream, and therefore people view its value as being priceless. Unfortunately, when those kids graduate, they learn that the costs are real and backpacking through Europe probably isn't an option once those loans kick in.

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There is no humanly way possible that higher eduction costs will continue to rise. As Denis noted it's a ridiculous bubble, and free tuition is already being brought up by politicians.

There are also free market options such as this Coding bootcamps that give people skills they can actually use. I enjoyed college, but I learned far more about drinking and partying than everything else. It's a place to have a blast and pick up bad habits. I was far more ready to enter the workforce after being trained for the 8-hour work day in high school. After 4-years of undergrad and 2-years of grad school I was more used to working when it suited me, and face time does not matter as much as results.

To sum it up simply, college is not worth what they are currently charging and students loaded with debt is a bubble that will burst in the next 10 years. I just hope it takes down Career Education Corporation and The Apollo Group with it.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

There is no ROI on an education. The education is its own reward. Are you sure you didn't vote for Trump?

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

I was waiting for you to pop up.

If you have $200,000 in student loans and make $30K out of college, I can promise you you'd feel differently even if you were "enlightened" during your time there.

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If you have 200,000 in student loans you have parents that set you up to fail. There will always be college alternatives that don't cost 50K a year.

Well, Jorr's comment aside, there is absolutely a cost/benefit argument for college, and specifically certain degrees. At some point, taking on $200k in debt to go college becomes a bad deal. People will start to look at alternatives, whether that be cheaper universities, online degrees, apprentice programs, starting your own business or coding boot camp (great example Ruff).

The college tuition bubble is being driven by the same forces that drove the housing bubble- easy credit and demand exceeding supply for desired spots. The WSJ article does a good job of illustrating how easy credit is driving increase college attendance, and colleges only have so many spaces. Thus prices are rising way above inflation. Plus there is a significant amount of foreign demand for U.S. Universities.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Money comes and money goes but walking around ignorant is a curse.

Although it seems that rather than real learning, today's universities are simply indoctrinating students into some strange authoritarian left-wing orthodoxy.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

I went to the Cubs game last week with a recent Northwestern grad. He said it is upwards of $65k a year to go there all in. Just wow.

I was surprised that UIUC in state is around $30k all in. I paid $5k for tuition and $4k for room board back in 1992. I got my NIU grad degree (19 classes) for under $20k finishing in 1999.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

You're describing trade school. If that's your reason for attending university, you're there for the wrong reason. You should probably just pick up a hammer.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

WIU alum and their tuition is about 25K all in. I believe it was about 12-15K back in 2002 when I graduated. Between on campus jobs and summer work, I managed to leave with less than 15K in debt.

There is no "cheap" option for college any longer.

It seems even instate STATE colleges are 25k a year.

These generalizations are just false, though. You say that "money comes and goes." Think that's a bit of an oversimplification? If you are saddled with six figures of debt, you will pay for it your entire life, depending on what type of job you get. And, yes, jobs are tied directly to college education. I didn't go to college for a particular skill... I majored in politics... but I can promise you I wouldn't be where I am today without that degree. Whether that's the way it should be or not is another discussion. Your idea only works in theory and if we weren't talking about crippling amounts of debt.

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I agree that what the university system has become is an abomination. But on some level you seem to be agreeing with me. University should teach one about the world. It's not a trade school.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

I wouldn't disagree if you think that's what it should be. That's just not what it is now, practically speaking. If we as a society really viewed college as something that "teaches one about the world," then we should be ashamed of our current system because it shouldn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to become a more enlightened citizen.

I once thought I was the most theoretical debater I had ever known, and then I met JORR.

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Man who fart in church
sit in own Pew

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

If WIU is 25K, Georgetown seems like a steal at 50.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I had this lecture in a poli sci class at UIC that was taught by a grad student. He used to get all riled up about Newt Gingrich during the Clinton years. He went on a rant when they lifted the 55 mph Federal Speed limit with a comment about "that's all Congress can get done".

Well one day he ranted about a flat tax plan. He told the entire audience that it was a plan to sock the poor with income taxes. I had had enough of his political commentary. I raised my hand and asked the "professor" at what level of income the flat tax took effect. He said he didn't know the details. When I informed him that the standard deduction was $36,000 for a family of four, he seemed stunned. Meaning, the tax didn't cost a poor family anything until their income exceeded $36,000, and this was about 25 years ago.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Forget your class we had this argument on this very board within the last few years. Was probably Brick related.

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80% of my professors leaned left, but I would say most of them hid it or at least tried. They offered various viewpoints and encouraged us to do the same.

I did have this one guy, though, who was clearly a former hippie and was just downright embarrassing. He railed against Conservatism to the point that he sounded like a 9/11 truther. He also just didn't show up for class about 1/3 of the time. None of us cared, and we in fact enjoyed it, but it was no wonder he was a flaming liberal... he was a scattered, lazy public worker. No different than Psycory.

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"Funny" professor stories for $100 Alex.

I had this adjunct professor in grad school at NIU's off campus location in Hoffman Estates. I think he was an employee of Brachs Candies. It was a required marketing class, and most of the students were either straight MBA's or Finance majors like me. So none of us wanted to sit in a crappy marketing class.

In any case, the majority of our grade was on a group project. As always happens in MBA styled courses, the students are way too busy with real jobs to put any effort into a group project. My group members tanked the entire thing, and we received the obligatory B grade. In MBA classes, you get an A if you do anything and a B if you don't show up. In any case, I had a 4.0 GPA, and this was one of my last courses. There was no way I was getting a B in a marketing class.

As we neared the final, the adjunct told the class we only needed to show up for the final if we wanted to change our current grade. I was sitting at like an 89%. One other guy in class also wanted to sit. On the week before the final, I informed the adjunct that I intended to show up. He seemed disappointed. I told him he could just change my grade since I had done my part on the project, but he would no back down.

So I show up with the other guy for the final. The adjunct was surprised we showed up. Most grad students only wanted the paper, not the A or the knowledge. So he passed out the exam, and left to grab a coffee. He comes back with the coffee, and says something like, "man you guys are serious about that A." He takes our tests and say, "ok you proved you cared enough so I'll give you an A."

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Hawaii (fuck) You

We have allowed college to become like a trade school. It is advertised to kids as the path to success, and worth a million dollars in lifetime earnings. So you have hundreds of for-profit degree mills that thousands rack up debt in that they will never repay.

You cannot tell students that college is this valuable tangible resource and charge them as such then say it was about the knowledge.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Was it Anthony Iosco? I had him for my business law class in the MBA program. He was just a retired judge who literally sat around for 75% of the class and told stories about Miranda Rights and cases he saw. I don't think we ever discussed a single thing regarding business law.

What's cool, though, is he was buddies with John Gacy's prosecutor and defense attorney, so one class, he just had them come in and talk. It was one of the coolest classes I ever attended. He described the night Gacy confessed to him. Again, nothing to do with business law.

I had to miss a class once, so I called him earlier in the day and let him know I wouldn't be there. He was like, "don't even worry about it. This isn't that serious. You're all gonna get 'A's."

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one of our best techs graduated with an IT degree (not sure the emphasis) for less than 40k i think he said. 2 years of community/2 years of a local college. he busted his hump for financial aid and scholarships. of the 40k financial aid took a chunk of it, and scholarships knocked out a ton of it. he busted his hump filing for scholarships. grad with 0 debt and only worked summers. had 20k in college savings.

its totally doable if you see college for what it is. parents and students think this is some required life experience that they are willing to go ridiculously in debt to experience.