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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:55 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
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Julie DiCaro


Is that a Haiku for Julie's broken chair?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Pulling a gun in a crowded area with 30 to 40 adversaries and plenty of innocent people around is a bad idea. I've got a couple credit cards with fraud protection and a cell phone. If they just want my wallet they won't get anything worthwhile out of it. I will not be engaging in that scenario.
If someone tried to rape my wife or break my neck or had a deadly weapon at the ready I'll drop the hammer on them. If they break into my house they're making a bad mistake.
In over 10 years of gun ownership I've never needed to pull it but I'm not afraid to. But over some plastic in my wallet in the presence of plenty of innocents? No.


I've always been curious, what's SOP for the situation where they want your wallet, but discover you have a gun, and want that too? I'm not playing hypotheticals here, I see your stance as a good one, I just want to know what you or others would do if they demanded the gun, too?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Pulling a gun in a crowded area with 30 to 40 adversaries and plenty of innocent people around is a bad idea. I've got a couple credit cards with fraud protection and a cell phone. If they just want my wallet they won't get anything worthwhile out of it. I will not be engaging in that scenario.
If someone tried to rape my wife or break my neck or had a deadly weapon at the ready I'll drop the hammer on them. If they break into my house they're making a bad mistake.
In over 10 years of gun ownership I've never needed to pull it but I'm not afraid to. But over some plastic in my wallet in the presence of plenty of innocents? No.


I've always been curious, what's SOP for the situation where they want your wallet, but discover you have a gun, and want that too? I'm not playing hypotheticals here, I see your stance as a good one, I just want to know what you or others would do if they demanded the gun, too?


He'd pull out his pressure cooker.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:00 pm 
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If your carrying right they shouldn't be able to see your gun.

Also your question has too many variables. Are they armed? How close are they? Is it one assailant?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Good luck getting it I guess.
It should be adequately concealed that no one knows you've got it.

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Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:01 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
If your carrying right they shouldn't be able to see your gun.

Also your question has too many variables. Are they armed? How close are they? Is it one assailant?


Let's take this scenario. It's a gaggle of hoodlums that aren't visibly armed, and they, I don't know, brush up against you and feel the gun, or see it, whatever, and demand it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
If your carrying right they shouldn't be able to see your gun.

Also your question has too many variables. Are they armed? How close are they? Is it one assailant?


Let's take this scenario. It's a gaggle of hoodlums that aren't visibly armed, and they, I don't know, brush up against you and feel the gun, or see it, whatever, and demand it.

I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.

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Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Good luck getting it I guess.
It should be adequately concealed that no one knows you've got it.


Well let's say you, or this theoretical person, is open carrying.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
If your carrying right they shouldn't be able to see your gun.

Also your question has too many variables. Are they armed? How close are they? Is it one assailant?


Let's take this scenario. It's a gaggle of hoodlums that aren't visibly armed, and they, I don't know, brush up against you and feel the gun, or see it, whatever, and demand it.

I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.


And they threaten you with violence, not over handing over your credit cards, but your iron as well. Is that acceptable?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Good luck getting it I guess.
It should be adequately concealed that no one knows you've got it.


Well let's say you, or this theoretical person, is open carrying.

That's stupid. I would not do so nor is that legal here in Illinois.
I cannot answer that hypothetical as it doesn't apply to my life here in Illinois and therefore isn't of concern to me.

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bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
If your carrying right they shouldn't be able to see your gun.

Also your question has too many variables. Are they armed? How close are they? Is it one assailant?


Let's take this scenario. It's a gaggle of hoodlums that aren't visibly armed, and they, I don't know, brush up against you and feel the gun, or see it, whatever, and demand it.

I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.


And they threaten you with violence, not over handing over your credit cards, but your iron as well. Is that acceptable?

I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.
Again... these teenage hoods shouldn't even know I'm carrying. In this scenario were discussing on this train or train station or whatever.... the weapon stays holstered and the hoods are just jerks looking for some cells 9r some easy cash.

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bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
If your carrying right they shouldn't be able to see your gun.

Also your question has too many variables. Are they armed? How close are they? Is it one assailant?


Let's take this scenario. It's a gaggle of hoodlums that aren't visibly armed, and they, I don't know, brush up against you and feel the gun, or see it, whatever, and demand it.

I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.


And they threaten you with violence, not over handing over your credit cards, but your iron as well. Is that acceptable?

I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.


What does this mean, in a practical sense?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
If your carrying right they shouldn't be able to see your gun.

Also your question has too many variables. Are they armed? How close are they? Is it one assailant?


Let's take this scenario. It's a gaggle of hoodlums that aren't visibly armed, and they, I don't know, brush up against you and feel the gun, or see it, whatever, and demand it.

I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.


And they threaten you with violence, not over handing over your credit cards, but your iron as well. Is that acceptable?

I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.


What does this mean, in a practical sense?

It means that I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure. I'm not sure that is ambiguous. If a criminal tried to disarm me he is an immediate threat to myself or those around me. It means I have to do whatever is in my power to prevent that.

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bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:11 pm 
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"It's just about setting reasonable limits" how am I supposed to know what level of reasonable you are talking about from that statement?

Is the reasonableness standard to which you are referring criminal or civil? Surely you can see why I'd be confused.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
If a criminal tried to disarm me he is an immediate threat to myself or those around me. It means I have to do whatever is in my power to prevent that.


Finally. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
If a criminal tried to disarm me he is an immediate threat to myself or those around me. It means I have to do whatever is in my power to prevent that.


Finally. Thank you.

I pretty much said that in my first post on the topic when I said I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.

Do you feel you have won the gotcha game?

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bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
If a criminal tried to disarm me he is an immediate threat to myself or those around me. It means I have to do whatever is in my power to prevent that.


Finally. Thank you.

I pretty much said that in my first post on the topic when I said I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.

Do you feel you have won the gotcha game?


I wasn't playing any game. I was trying to find out what you meant by "I have an obligation to keep my firearm secure". Jesus Christ. I told you at the onset it was an honest question, and not a "gotcha" attempt, and you still stonewalled like a fucking asshole.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:17 pm 
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I didn't realize how ambiguous that statement was.

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bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
I didn't realize how ambiguous that statement was.


I have never owned a gun, nor looked at or researched what is required for CCW. That is why I was asking the question.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Darkside wrote:
If a criminal tried to disarm me he is an immediate threat to myself or those around me. It means I have to do whatever is in my power to prevent that.


Finally. Thank you.

I pretty much said that in my first post on the topic when I said I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure.

Do you feel you have won the gotcha game?


I wasn't playing any game. I was trying to find out what you meant by "I have an obligation to keep my firearm secure". Jesus Christ. I told you at the onset it was an honest question, and not a "gotcha" attempt, and you still stonewalled like a fucking asshole.

I'm not stonewalling. I resist these weird was hypothetical scenarios that are just plain unusual and are typically used to be gotcha questions.
It's the same thing I see when people talk about "common sense" regulations. The problem is that common sense to one guy certainly isn't common sense to another.
Right around the time McDonald vs. Chicago was going on everyone was predicting that every bar fight was going to end in a bloodbath. Every traffic accident or dispute would result in a murder. That was explained as common sense. But it turns out... that's just dumb.
Real common sense to me for example is what happens when a citizenry is disarmed. We can see how that worked out for Venezuela or Australlia or the worst case scenario that is typically mentioned in these discussions but I won't name because I'm sick of it being used.

But to be clear over this whole thing... an unarmed person isn't going to be frisking me looking for a concealed weapon. Your average guy accidently bumping me and feeling a weapon won't be trying to disarm me. Your average dude looking at me won't know I'm carrying. Someone looking at me and knowing I'm carrying is most likely to be a trained professional and therefore not a threat. If I'm carrying, I have an obligation to keep my weapon secure. I'm not a legal scholar, nor am I a supreme court nominee, therefore what that means is simply what the line says. I'll leave it up to the cops or the judge or jury to figure out what it means.

How do I react in that scenario? I don't know dude. No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy. I'd like to think I know how I would react but until then I can only train for it and hope the training kicks in when the shit his the fan. Until then my weapons are primarally for home defense and not to be some kind of Charles Bronson or something out there.

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bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:41 am 
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How do you accurately measure to what extent a violent mob is going to treat you in this type of scenario? Does the possibility exist that they might stomp your dick into the dirt, even after you succomb your phone/wallet/whatever? 40 plus teenagers acting violent and assaulting people sure would scare the fuck out of me...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:11 am 
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if we are going to allow the elimination of a baby inside a womb who may or may not be a piece of garbage outside of the womb, i wholeheartedly have no problem with the judicious elimination of fully formed and functioning humans who already exhibit evidence of being pieces of garbage.

fire away.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:13 am 
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hnd wrote:
if we are going to allow the elimination of a baby inside a womb who may or may not be a piece of garbage outside of the womb, i wholeheartedly have no problem with the judicious elimination of fully formed and functioning humans who already exhibit evidence of being pieces of garbage.

fire away.


just after 8am and we have our worst take of the day already


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:15 am 
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Image


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:18 am 
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Bagels wrote:
hnd wrote:
if we are going to allow the elimination of a baby inside a womb who may or may not be a piece of garbage outside of the womb, i wholeheartedly have no problem with the judicious elimination of fully formed and functioning humans who already exhibit evidence of being pieces of garbage.

fire away.
just after 8am and we have our worst take of the day already
If he was talking about Caller Bob, I have to agree with him.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:19 am 
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i'm just talking about the dispersal of atoms that i've grown 0 attachment to.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:40 am 
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Bagels wrote:
hnd wrote:
if we are going to allow the elimination of a baby inside a womb who may or may not be a piece of garbage outside of the womb, i wholeheartedly have no problem with the judicious elimination of fully formed and functioning humans who already exhibit evidence of being pieces of garbage.

fire away.


just after 8am and we have our worst take of the day already


Why can't some people feel that way? Is it illegal to?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:49 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Bagels wrote:
hnd wrote:
if we are going to allow the elimination of a baby inside a womb who may or may not be a piece of garbage outside of the womb, i wholeheartedly have no problem with the judicious elimination of fully formed and functioning humans who already exhibit evidence of being pieces of garbage.

fire away.


just after 8am and we have our worst take of the day already


Why can't some people feel that way? Is it illegal to?


Hitler wrote:
Yeah! What's wrong with a little genocide now and then?

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I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:38 am 
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happens every day.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:56 am 
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hnd wrote:
happens every day.


Image

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