It is currently Tue Apr 30, 2024 6:12 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 137 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72292
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
It still sort of baffles me that so many on the left don't understand the damage their attitudes are doing to their cause. This shit is a lot more detrimental to the country long term than Trump and/or the alt right.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... urce=atlfb

Left Outside the Social-Justice Movement's Small Tent

Mahad Olad, a high school student, used to be active in “the local social-justice scene” around Minneapolis, Minnesota, attending meetings and leading demonstrations for feminist, LGBT, and anti-racism groups. Then he became disillusioned.

When he was just 16, the ACLU profiled the teen activist. He came to the U.S. as a child. Later, his immigrant parents took him back to their home country, Kenya, so that their son could experience what it was like to live in that culture as well.

“In Kenya, he saw the harsh realities faced by women trying to access reproductive health-care services and how the gay and lesbian community is forced to live underground,” the ACLU explained. “While Mahad cares about many social-justice and civil-liberties issues, he is especially drawn to reproductive freedom and LGBT rights because of his experience in Kenya. He has been one of his school's biggest advocates for comprehensive sex education and has helped to organize events at his school to teach students important information about comprehensive safe-sex practices, something that his school does not teach in class.”

Two years later he was sending off a frustrated email to me.

“I genuinely cared about these causes—still do,” he wrote, referencing everything from anti-racism to LGBT rights to reproductive health. “I believed I was doing something noble. At the same time,” he added, “a large part of me was not quite in agreement with some of the views and concepts espoused by social-justice groups. Their pro-censorship tendencies, fixation with intersectionality, and constant uproar over seemingly trivial and innocuous matters like ‘cultural appropriation’ and ‘microaggressions’ went against my civil-libertarian sensibilities.”

He fit in fine at the ACLU. But interacting with social-justice groups made up of high school and college students, he increasingly found himself having to bite his tongue.

“I never voiced my personal disagreements because having dissenting views is strictly forbidden in the activist circles I was a part of,” he explained. “If you’re white, you will be charged with being a ‘bad ally.’ (There's also certain gatherings you cannot come to because your mere presence might be threatening.) If you’re a person of color, your disagreements will usually be dismissed as some form of ‘internalized racism,’ ‘internalized sexism,’ or ‘respectability politics,’ among many other activist jargon's thrown at individuals who do not conform the groups views.”

Eventually, he started to speak up anyway, he said.

“On Twitter,” he wrote, “I discussed how trigger warnings have almost been rendered useless now that they’re used to alert individuals when talking about normal everyday things, like food, cars and animals. And that their use could potentially have adverse effects on academic freedom. I was accused of being outrageously insensitive and apparently made three activist cohorts have traumatic breakdowns.”

“In another tweet,” he added, “I criticized the usual tactic of campus activists to disrupt and heckle controversial speakers and advised them to raise their strong objections during the question and answer session, which lectures usually reserve long hours precisely to debate opponents. This time, the attacks got a little more personal. I was accused of being a ‘respectable negro,’ ‘uncle tom,’ ‘local coon’ and defending university officials to continue to ‘systemically oppress minorities.’”

I asked if he thought his race and ethnicity made it easier or harder to dissent. “A little easier, I guess,” he replied, “But it really doesn't feel good being a called a ‘house genius.’”

He says he was ultimately kicked out of student-led social justice groups.

“In no way am I denying or minimizing the appalling fact that, sometimes, racial and ethnic minority students face abhorrent discrimination—even hate crimes— on certain college and university campuses” he wrote. “For that reason, occasionally, there’s very legitimate reasons for these student activists to be worried, aggrieved, and lead emotionally charged protests. I earnestly believe that the best and most beneficial method to simultaneously fight against blatant bigotry and for marginalized groups who are the objects of hate is more speech, not less.”

He wonders how a kid with beliefs like his will fare in higher education.

“When I go off to college next year, I honestly don't know where I'm going to fit in... The only political/social group accepting of my views are normally libertarians,” he wrote. “For the most part, these campus activism groups have my sympathies. I just wish that they didn't have such a hostile attitude towards free speech and didn’t dismiss opposing viewpoints based on the person’s identity.”

Events at Yale were particularly upsetting to Olad as he pondered going away to college himself.

“From Mizzou to Ithaca to Amherst, I was initially very supportive of the nationwide protests that sparked across college campuses against racial insensitivity. I believed, and still do, that student activists have every right to hold demonstrations, push for robust changes and confront their respective administrations if they truly suspect that they are being treated unfairly or feel threatened,” he wrote. “However, Yale made me take a different look not just at just at these protests, but some of the core concepts these student activists (and the groups I was involved in) take almost too seriously. I sympathize with the student protesters and wholly understand their frustration is not stemming from a simple email, but the overall atmosphere of Yale for students of color. Nonetheless, I believe Erika and Nicholas Christakis were wronged on many levels.”

If social-justice activists on college campuses were committed to respectfully considering the perspectives of individuals from historically marginalized groups, as almost all claim to be, a black immigrant from a relatively poor country would have no reason to worry about being accepted into their communities to fight racism and advance gender equality, even in spite of the well-trod disagreements that have long divided civil libertarians from parts of the social-justice community.

Unfortunately, I think that Mahad Olad is correct to be concerned, and that too many left-wing student groups treat no one as badly as students of color or women who consider themselves to be classical liberals, libertarians, or conservatives, or who merely disagree with the actions of progressive protesters on campus.

They’re seen as special kinds of traitors.

Last week, while reporting on UC Davis, I noted the allegation that a Hispanic staff member loyal to Chancellor Linda Katehi, the object of ongoing protests, was called “a coconut” by several activists, meaning “brown on the outside, white on the inside.”

Back in college, when I edited student newspapers both at Pomona College, my alma mater, and the Claremont Colleges, a consortium of 5 undergraduate institutions, I was constantly urging people who expressed thoughtful opinions in conversation to contribute to our op-ed pages. On four or five occasions, students of color regretfully declined, saying they didn’t feel able to set forth their opinions publicly without being savaged by a tiny subset of campus activists who, despite their small numbers, managed to chill speech. I always wondered if these students were exaggerating the likely backlash—their ostensibly heretical views were almost always extremely mainstream—until a conservative Asian American woman began writing for The Student Life and I got an education in leftist racist hate mail.

Alton Luke II, a black student at Occidental, told the Los Angeles Times about the backlash that he faced after questioning aspects of last semester’s protests at his institution.

Many right-leaning journalists and college professors have encountered black, Hispanic, and Asian American students who’ve been subjected to hatefulness because they dared to depart from the political line some expect them to toe. If you’re a white liberal, which is to say, a person those students wouldn’t typically choose to confide in about this particular problem, it would be easy to be totally blind to it.

So I’m glad Mahad Olad is sharing his experience. Others like him are hearing the same slurs and being subject to the same prejudices. They should be aware that they’re not alone.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 39754
Location: Everywhere
pizza_Place: giordanos
There does seem to be a boy that cried wolf feeling with a lot of it. This guy makes some sense.

_________________
Brick wrote:
Biden is doing a GOOD job.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:24 pm
Posts: 16901
pizza_Place: Pequods
That article reminded me why I like the ACLU. They don't just believe in freedom of speech of those they agree with. They believe in freedom of speech for those they detest.

You should see the Twitter comments following their post condemning the cancellation of Coulter's speech. All the blue checkmark safe space libs who follow them are freaking out that the organization would dare want to give Coulter the right to free speech.

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 32310
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
I've said it a million times, both Liberals and Conservatives are closed minded. I know Conservatives get stereotyped for being in flexible, but most Liberals are just as bad.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:02 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77064
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
Quote:
“In Kenya, he saw the harsh realities faced by women trying to access reproductive health-care services and how the gay and lesbian community is forced to live underground,” the ACLU explained.


I saw an interview where some Canadian douchebag was giving Ayaan Hirsi Ali the high hand and she said, "It's easy for you to spit on freedom. You've never known anything else."

Also, if you start boiling a lot of these movements down you eventually get them distilled to, "The Jews are the problem!"

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
The college SJW movement are a group of professional victims. They are so over the top that they ruin any chance of progress or change. I know it may shock some of them, but the American experience for people of all colors is pretty similar along socio economic status. I recall talking to a black history professor about pre-Civil War America. He said that the slave quarters were were not just for blacks. The majority of people in the country lived in similar sizes living spaces. And if you lived in Eastern Europe at the time there was a good chance that you were a slave as well.

This is not to minimize the horrors of slavery or Jim Crow. His point is that we are in this together, and we have a shared experiences. Yet, on campuses you can't even discuss these issues without being labeled insensitive.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:24 pm
Posts: 16901
pizza_Place: Pequods
This Twitter thread is hilarious. It's as if this moron doesn't understand the ACLU stands for the civil liberties of all, even those they detest.

https://twitter.com/ezlusztig/status/857361441220952065

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Quote:
“In Kenya, he saw the harsh realities faced by women trying to access reproductive health-care services and how the gay and lesbian community is forced to live underground,” the ACLU explained.


I saw an interview where some Canadian douchebag was giving Ayaan Hirsi Ali the high hand and she said, "It's easy for you to spit on freedom. You've never known anything else."

Also, if you start boiling a lot of these movements down you eventually get them distilled to, "The Jews are the problem!"


Of course distilling down republican talking points gets you to the Colored problem being the root of their issues

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The college SJW movement are a group of professional victims. They are so over the top that they ruin any chance of progress or change. I know it may shock some of them, but the American experience for people of all colors is pretty similar along socio economic status. I recall talking to a black history professor about pre-Civil War America. He said that the slave quarters were were not just for blacks. The majority of people in the country lived in similar sizes living spaces. And if you lived in Eastern Europe at the time there was a good chance that you were a slave as well.

This is not to minimize the horrors of slavery or Jim Crow. His point is that we are in this together, and we have a shared experiences. Yet, on campuses you can't even discuss these issues without being labeled insensitive.


I'm sorry but this line of specious & false equivalent arguments simply enables the current POTUS to say things like how the current illegal immigration from Latin America is this country's worst case of human trafficking.

I was befuddled by THAT one.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 4218
pizza_Place: pizza and subs
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
This Twitter thread is hilarious. It's as if this moron doesn't understand the ACLU stands for the civil liberties of all, even those they detest.

https://twitter.com/ezlusztig/status/857361441220952065


the best out of it "it was my wifes fault...she was the one who signed up!!!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:34 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77064
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Quote:
“In Kenya, he saw the harsh realities faced by women trying to access reproductive health-care services and how the gay and lesbian community is forced to live underground,” the ACLU explained.


I saw an interview where some Canadian douchebag was giving Ayaan Hirsi Ali the high hand and she said, "It's easy for you to spit on freedom. You've never known anything else."

Also, if you start boiling a lot of these movements down you eventually get them distilled to, "The Jews are the problem!"


Of course distilling down republican talking points gets you to the Colored problem being the root of their issues



I don't think that's accurate. If you said Southern talking points I'd be inclined to agree. It wasn't Republicans who were presiding over Jim Crow.

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 32310
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
I guess I don't count as a Republican anymore. But I generally vote that way and so do a significant number of my work associates. Never, in any way shape or form, are our votes or beliefs have anything to do with a perceived colored problem. You have various schools of Republicans, and no doubt some of the religious nuts (Southern mainly as Jorr put it), they are probably worried about a colored problem. War hawks and fiscal hawks are generally unconcerned with social issues. I fall into the small government camp, probably closest to the fiscal hawks with an emphasis on live and let live, free trade, and balanced budgets.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:24 pm
Posts: 16901
pizza_Place: Pequods
hnd wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
This Twitter thread is hilarious. It's as if this moron doesn't understand the ACLU stands for the civil liberties of all, even those they detest.

https://twitter.com/ezlusztig/status/857361441220952065


the best out of it "it was my wifes fault...she was the one who signed up!!!"

Does his wife know she's being thrown under the bus by her beta husband?

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 32310
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
I've been thinking about this race obsessed country. It is really interesting in that with my family, it is probably only the near 70 year old dads who ever bring up race in any context. My wife and I never talk about it and are unconcerned. Our friends and social circles never bring it up. My kids and their friends never talk about it. We're just used to being exposed to all races enough where it is a complete non-issue for us. I wonder how many white people under 50 spend any significant time worrying about it.

And then it's funny, that for SJW's and certain people on the radio, it is a near constant endeavor. And then there's plenty of alt right and politicians who continue to use it as scare tactics. Sad and sick.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 4218
pizza_Place: pizza and subs
i work for a network security company that specializes in content filtering for schools. we had this round table discussion about what should go into our "hate speech" category. the examples that some of these people came up with were just outrageous. anne coulters website, focus on the family, any religious site, and ultimately we realized that we had asked the wrong people to participate in the meeting.

ultimately we made a blurb that as a national product, hate speech is subjective on a personal and even regional level therefore we focus on ones that use vulgarity, slurs, and actively incites violence.

we get an occasional call but its quickly understood (most of the time) why a site like the kkk is accessible.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The college SJW movement are a group of professional victims. They are so over the top that they ruin any chance of progress or change. I know it may shock some of them, but the American experience for people of all colors is pretty similar along socio economic status. I recall talking to a black history professor about pre-Civil War America. He said that the slave quarters were were not just for blacks. The majority of people in the country lived in similar sizes living spaces. And if you lived in Eastern Europe at the time there was a good chance that you were a slave as well.

This is not to minimize the horrors of slavery or Jim Crow. His point is that we are in this together, and we have a shared experiences. Yet, on campuses you can't even discuss these issues without being labeled insensitive.


I'm sorry but this line of specious & false equivalent arguments simply enables the current POTUS to say things like how the current illegal immigration from Latin America is this country's worst case of human trafficking.

I was befuddled by THAT one.


It really has nothing to do with Trump. I don't think it's a healthy attitude to have that black slavery is such a terrible crime that nothing can be compared to it. It creates a chilling effect on scholarship, and also places this burden on black identity. Blacks were slaves 150 plus years, but so too were Poles and Russians. I think it's important to realize that rather than this portrayal of black Americans as this group of untouchables preyed upon by all of white society. Most of white society was in the ditches with them somewhere around the world.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:24 pm
Posts: 16901
pizza_Place: Pequods
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The college SJW movement are a group of professional victims. They are so over the top that they ruin any chance of progress or change. I know it may shock some of them, but the American experience for people of all colors is pretty similar along socio economic status. I recall talking to a black history professor about pre-Civil War America. He said that the slave quarters were were not just for blacks. The majority of people in the country lived in similar sizes living spaces. And if you lived in Eastern Europe at the time there was a good chance that you were a slave as well.

This is not to minimize the horrors of slavery or Jim Crow. His point is that we are in this together, and we have a shared experiences. Yet, on campuses you can't even discuss these issues without being labeled insensitive.


I'm sorry but this line of specious & false equivalent arguments simply enables the current POTUS to say things like how the current illegal immigration from Latin America is this country's worst case of human trafficking.

I was befuddled by THAT one.


It really has nothing to do with Trump. I don't think it's a healthy attitude to have that black slavery is such a terrible crime that nothing can be compared to it. It creates a chilling effect on scholarship, and also places this burden on black identity. Blacks were slaves 150 plus years, but so too were Poles and Russians. I think it's important to realize that rather than this portrayal of black Americans as this group of untouchables preyed upon by all of white society. Most of white society was in the ditches with them somewhere around the world.
Most people are not familiar with Shtetl life within the Pale of Settlement from the 1790s all the way up to 1917. It's all of my ancestors fled to come here at various points from the 1880s up to 1905.

One of my 4 Great grandmothers was born and raised in that life. She never could bring herself to see Fiddler on the Roof (which was honestly a softer view on that life)

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson


Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:03 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77064
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
denisdman wrote:
I've been thinking about this race obsessed country. It is really interesting in that with my family, it is probably only the near 70 year old dads who ever bring up race in any context. My wife and I never talk about it and are unconcerned. Our friends and social circles never bring it up. My kids and their friends never talk about it. We're just used to being exposed to all races enough where it is a complete non-issue for us. I wonder how many white people under 50 spend any significant time worrying about it.

And then it's funny, that for SJW's and certain people on the radio, it is a near constant endeavor. And then there's plenty of alt right and politicians who continue to use it as scare tactics. Sad and sick.



I have to say, Dennis, that's a really white guy point of view. White people don't have to think about race and most don't want to. I'm pretty sure if you were a black guy for a day you'd be acutely aware of race.

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:07 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77064
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The college SJW movement are a group of professional victims. They are so over the top that they ruin any chance of progress or change. I know it may shock some of them, but the American experience for people of all colors is pretty similar along socio economic status. I recall talking to a black history professor about pre-Civil War America. He said that the slave quarters were were not just for blacks. The majority of people in the country lived in similar sizes living spaces. And if you lived in Eastern Europe at the time there was a good chance that you were a slave as well.

This is not to minimize the horrors of slavery or Jim Crow. His point is that we are in this together, and we have a shared experiences. Yet, on campuses you can't even discuss these issues without being labeled insensitive.


I'm sorry but this line of specious & false equivalent arguments simply enables the current POTUS to say things like how the current illegal immigration from Latin America is this country's worst case of human trafficking.

I was befuddled by THAT one.


It really has nothing to do with Trump. I don't think it's a healthy attitude to have that black slavery is such a terrible crime that nothing can be compared to it. It creates a chilling effect on scholarship, and also places this burden on black identity. Blacks were slaves 150 plus years, but so too were Poles and Russians. I think it's important to realize that rather than this portrayal of black Americans as this group of untouchables preyed upon by all of white society. Most of white society was in the ditches with them somewhere around the world.
Most people are not familiar with Shtetl life within the Pale of Settlement from the 1790s all the way up to 1917. It's all of my ancestors fled to come here at various points from the 1880s up to 1905.

One of my 4 Great grandmothers was born and raised in that life. She never could bring herself to see Fiddler on the Roof (which was honestly a softer view on that life)


I understand Ruffcorn's point and I think it's well intended, but your ancestors escaped the bad for the better. For the ancestors of most black Americans it was the opposite.

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 4218
pizza_Place: pizza and subs
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The college SJW movement are a group of professional victims. They are so over the top that they ruin any chance of progress or change. I know it may shock some of them, but the American experience for people of all colors is pretty similar along socio economic status. I recall talking to a black history professor about pre-Civil War America. He said that the slave quarters were were not just for blacks. The majority of people in the country lived in similar sizes living spaces. And if you lived in Eastern Europe at the time there was a good chance that you were a slave as well.

This is not to minimize the horrors of slavery or Jim Crow. His point is that we are in this together, and we have a shared experiences. Yet, on campuses you can't even discuss these issues without being labeled insensitive.


I'm sorry but this line of specious & false equivalent arguments simply enables the current POTUS to say things like how the current illegal immigration from Latin America is this country's worst case of human trafficking.

I was befuddled by THAT one.


It really has nothing to do with Trump. I don't think it's a healthy attitude to have that black slavery is such a terrible crime that nothing can be compared to it. It creates a chilling effect on scholarship, and also places this burden on black identity. Blacks were slaves 150 plus years, but so too were Poles and Russians. I think it's important to realize that rather than this portrayal of black Americans as this group of untouchables preyed upon by all of white society. Most of white society was in the ditches with them somewhere around the world.


early americans came from a place where slavery was alive and well. but the slaves they came from were whites. so when the muslims and africans started marching lesser (in their eyes) africans to the coast, it made sense and was economical to participate. Roots makes it seem like whites infiltrated africa and inturn sold africans to other whites, when historically we know that to be false.

once and still for the most part on the same side of the aisle politically, white guilt advocates and science minded/historians are beginning to squabble a bit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:24 pm
Posts: 16901
pizza_Place: Pequods
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The college SJW movement are a group of professional victims. They are so over the top that they ruin any chance of progress or change. I know it may shock some of them, but the American experience for people of all colors is pretty similar along socio economic status. I recall talking to a black history professor about pre-Civil War America. He said that the slave quarters were were not just for blacks. The majority of people in the country lived in similar sizes living spaces. And if you lived in Eastern Europe at the time there was a good chance that you were a slave as well.

This is not to minimize the horrors of slavery or Jim Crow. His point is that we are in this together, and we have a shared experiences. Yet, on campuses you can't even discuss these issues without being labeled insensitive.


I'm sorry but this line of specious & false equivalent arguments simply enables the current POTUS to say things like how the current illegal immigration from Latin America is this country's worst case of human trafficking.

I was befuddled by THAT one.


It really has nothing to do with Trump. I don't think it's a healthy attitude to have that black slavery is such a terrible crime that nothing can be compared to it. It creates a chilling effect on scholarship, and also places this burden on black identity. Blacks were slaves 150 plus years, but so too were Poles and Russians. I think it's important to realize that rather than this portrayal of black Americans as this group of untouchables preyed upon by all of white society. Most of white society was in the ditches with them somewhere around the world.
Most people are not familiar with Shtetl life within the Pale of Settlement from the 1790s all the way up to 1917. It's all of my ancestors fled to come here at various points from the 1880s up to 1905.

One of my 4 Great grandmothers was born and raised in that life. She never could bring herself to see Fiddler on the Roof (which was honestly a softer view on that life)


I understand Ruffcorn's point and I think it's well intended, but your ancestors escaped the bad for the better. For the ancestors of most black Americans it was the opposite.

I will not dispute that.

Heck, if we're talking about a group getting the shaft, this land's original inhabitants, especially on the plains really got it. Lots of awful shit especially from 1860-1895 went on that can really only be called genocide if you are being intellectually honest.

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 32310
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I've been thinking about this race obsessed country. It is really interesting in that with my family, it is probably only the near 70 year old dads who ever bring up race in any context. My wife and I never talk about it and are unconcerned. Our friends and social circles never bring it up. My kids and their friends never talk about it. We're just used to being exposed to all races enough where it is a complete non-issue for us. I wonder how many white people under 50 spend any significant time worrying about it.

And then it's funny, that for SJW's and certain people on the radio, it is a near constant endeavor. And then there's plenty of alt right and politicians who continue to use it as scare tactics. Sad and sick.



I have to say, Dennis, that's a really white guy point of view. White people don't have to think about race and most don't want to. I'm pretty sure if you were a black guy for a day you'd be acutely aware of race.


Uh yeah. But what the hell am I supposed to do? I had nothing to do with the historical wrongs that happen in this country and the British Empire. I treat everyone equally. It's not like we're blind to all the social issues and inequalities, but I can only control my behavior and what I teach to my children.

Should I have white guilt and vote for Liberals.....

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:14 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77064
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I've been thinking about this race obsessed country. It is really interesting in that with my family, it is probably only the near 70 year old dads who ever bring up race in any context. My wife and I never talk about it and are unconcerned. Our friends and social circles never bring it up. My kids and their friends never talk about it. We're just used to being exposed to all races enough where it is a complete non-issue for us. I wonder how many white people under 50 spend any significant time worrying about it.

And then it's funny, that for SJW's and certain people on the radio, it is a near constant endeavor. And then there's plenty of alt right and politicians who continue to use it as scare tactics. Sad and sick.



I have to say, Dennis, that's a really white guy point of view. White people don't have to think about race and most don't want to. I'm pretty sure if you were a black guy for a day you'd be acutely aware of race.


Uh yeah. But what the hell am I supposed to do? I had nothing to do with the historical wrongs that happen in this country and the British Empire. I treat everyone equally. It's not like we're blind to all the social issues and inequalities, but I can only control my behavior and what I teach to my children.

Should I have white guilt and vote for Liberals.....


I understand. I don't think anyone should feel guilt for immutable qualities with which they were born. I could give you lots of reasons to vote for liberals though.

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 4218
pizza_Place: pizza and subs
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The college SJW movement are a group of professional victims. They are so over the top that they ruin any chance of progress or change. I know it may shock some of them, but the American experience for people of all colors is pretty similar along socio economic status. I recall talking to a black history professor about pre-Civil War America. He said that the slave quarters were were not just for blacks. The majority of people in the country lived in similar sizes living spaces. And if you lived in Eastern Europe at the time there was a good chance that you were a slave as well.

This is not to minimize the horrors of slavery or Jim Crow. His point is that we are in this together, and we have a shared experiences. Yet, on campuses you can't even discuss these issues without being labeled insensitive.


I'm sorry but this line of specious & false equivalent arguments simply enables the current POTUS to say things like how the current illegal immigration from Latin America is this country's worst case of human trafficking.

I was befuddled by THAT one.


It really has nothing to do with Trump. I don't think it's a healthy attitude to have that black slavery is such a terrible crime that nothing can be compared to it. It creates a chilling effect on scholarship, and also places this burden on black identity. Blacks were slaves 150 plus years, but so too were Poles and Russians. I think it's important to realize that rather than this portrayal of black Americans as this group of untouchables preyed upon by all of white society. Most of white society was in the ditches with them somewhere around the world.
Most people are not familiar with Shtetl life within the Pale of Settlement from the 1790s all the way up to 1917. It's all of my ancestors fled to come here at various points from the 1880s up to 1905.

One of my 4 Great grandmothers was born and raised in that life. She never could bring herself to see Fiddler on the Roof (which was honestly a softer view on that life)


I understand Ruffcorn's point and I think it's well intended, but your ancestors escaped the bad for the better. For the ancestors of most black Americans it was the opposite.


they estimate more africans died on the way to the coasts than US slavery alone. its not like it was all peaches and cream in africa. i'm not saying it was better to be a slave here 2 wrongs don't make a right. one is just as wrong as the other. but i've read where some say the alternative was much worse than being a slave in the US. ultimately, leaving indiginous people alone and not enslaving them would of been the best thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72292
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Quote:
“In Kenya, he saw the harsh realities faced by women trying to access reproductive health-care services and how the gay and lesbian community is forced to live underground,” the ACLU explained.


I saw an interview where some Canadian douchebag was giving Ayaan Hirsi Ali the high hand and she said, "It's easy for you to spit on freedom. You've never known anything else."

Also, if you start boiling a lot of these movements down you eventually get them distilled to, "The Jews are the problem!"


Of course distilling down republican talking points gets you to the Colored problem being the root of their issues

My guy Mahad Olad had it right. Everyone except libertarians are a problem when it come to these social issues.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:24 pm
Posts: 16901
pizza_Place: Pequods
FavreFan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Quote:
“In Kenya, he saw the harsh realities faced by women trying to access reproductive health-care services and how the gay and lesbian community is forced to live underground,” the ACLU explained.


I saw an interview where some Canadian douchebag was giving Ayaan Hirsi Ali the high hand and she said, "It's easy for you to spit on freedom. You've never known anything else."

Also, if you start boiling a lot of these movements down you eventually get them distilled to, "The Jews are the problem!"


Of course distilling down republican talking points gets you to the Colored problem being the root of their issues

My guy Mahad Olad had it right. Everyone except libertarians are a problem when it come to these social issues.

yep.

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
Not to give Jorr too much credit, but most of these atrocities discussed in this thread are a direct result of: private ownership of land and accumulation of vast wealth.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:24 pm
Posts: 16901
pizza_Place: Pequods
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Not to give Jorr too much credit, but most of these atrocities discussed in this thread are a direct result of: private ownership of land and accumulation of vast wealth.

I'd argue they are actions of the state or state sanctioned. With the Indians it was the state as it was generally the army performing the massacres, Trail of Tears, etc.

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:56 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77064
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Not to give Jorr too much credit, but most of these atrocities discussed in this thread are a direct result of: private ownership of land and accumulation of vast wealth.

I'd argue they are actions of the state or state sanctioned. With the Indians it was the state as it was generally the army performing the massacres, Trail of Tears, etc.



On whose behalf do states act?

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Not to give Jorr too much credit, but most of these atrocities discussed in this thread are a direct result of: private ownership of land and accumulation of vast wealth.

I'd argue they are actions of the state or state sanctioned. With the Indians it was the state as it was generally the army performing the massacres, Trail of Tears, etc.


Slavery had next to nothing to do with the state. And the Trail of Tears was people wanting land. Slavery has been around since before the concept of the state. It's the result of greed, which many Libertarians claim either does not exist or is a positive trait.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 137 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DAC and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group