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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:44 am 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
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I had no idea how many of these actually existed until I started doing this limo shit.

they go on and on....I don't know where people get the money. Or, I didn't know so many people had money.


I posted the stats in that Pew article. The middle class in America is shrinking because many are moving into the upper middle class. Most professionals (lawyers, doctors, accountants actuaries) and MBA's are easily over $100k before 30 or soon after.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:27 am 
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denisdman wrote:
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Never understood why people thought it would be a good idea to make themselves do a full 90-degree turn into their parking space at home. Good luck ever coming home drunk.


Our Pulte neighborhood is all side load garages. It actually looks like nice because you don't see open garages as you drive through the neighborhood. You get the full facade.


The New Urbanists hate front-facing garages too but you have to look out for light fascist tendencies when it comes to the New Urbanists.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:30 am 
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Hah, there's nothing urban about me. I don't hate front facing, but I like the look of our side loader. Pulte has nice facade's in front. Too bad they don't offer all brick options. The rest of the outside is bland.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:37 am 
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Well, they tend to want everyone using alleys, which makes sense in theory (the garage is basically your service entrance; why make it the feature of your house's facade?), but lots of people don't like alleys and newer zoning codes prohibit them anyway. The battle is probably lost.

I don't see the problem with garages off to the side but I'm not a graduate student in architecture like the author of the blog so I guess I have to defer to her.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:16 am 
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K Effective wrote:
Coworker of mine, he's a year older 52. They make $150-200K combined, one ten YO daughter. Wanted to build McMansion in the country, found a beautiful 4 acre spot. Sold their suburban home, guy holding the lot doubles the price (coworker's fault for no written agreement). Bye, Bye equity. Live in Grandma's empty house for a year or so trying to save for the house, family wants them out to cash out the house. So they rent elsewhere. Acting as his own General Contractor (another mistake), he gets best buddy since Kindergarten to be carpenter (his job). Bank trims his loan total back several times, so he keeps cutting down the house, originally over 6K sf. Now down to 3300sf on main level, no second story, he can afford the interest-only payments of $1400/mo., but the only way to get it built is by doing half of the trade work himself. Runs out of time and tears up suburban riding lawn mower on steroids trying to excavate the basement, so has to hire it done. That causes them to miss the window for the poured wall contractor, so he goes to next available. There is a reason why good contractors are always busy, and shitty ones are not busy. Gets caught saying he will do grade work, does not do real good quality job for flat work prep, and they pour the basement floor like it is a mini golf course, you can actually trip yourself just walking across it.

Meanwhile, at work, he tries to move up the ladder to the next level, which requires 18 months of classroom training, but rewards with 25% pay increase. He struggles with concepts in a class of 20-something engineers, and kills all his time to work on the house, as per the loan. Buddy starts framing the monster, but has other projects , too. Late november, it's about shelled in, but he has no time to roof it, ends up hiring a crew of Spanish guys, who knock out about 80%, ask to be paid and head back out of country for the winter. No way he'll get the plumbing done on time, so ends up hiring that out. He does the septic system himself with the oft-repaired lawn mower with loader and backhoe, but has to fight with county inspector on design (he loses), and trench blocks the only access for the well driller to get to the well site. Of course, the pared-down design now only included one water furnace, and they don't want to start install until the well is in and proven. He begins wiring on off hours, gets kicked out of class for bad grades. Ground froze enough to get well rig in, HVAC gets done in two weeks, now it all waits on the electric and he is behind. Builder takes six straight weeks off with no activity, no doubt working on the next project. They become fierce enemies. Now, he talks of hiring an electrician to finish the main box. Every time he hires a portion out, it seems to cost about $10K.

He says his wife went furniture shopping lat week and bought a $3400 sectional for the living room. The guys at work are constantly telling him not to skimp on the finishes, knowing that you can't try to sell an $800K house with plywood countertops and re-used plumbing fixtures. Stone work is out, all Smart siding, which is just OSB with a grain finish. Still not planned for is the 500 foot driveway and several retaining walls that need to be built, or any other landscaping. But he has a nice 3 car garage.

Poor guy is gonna lose it. In the end, he may scrimp it down to $650K mortgage, taxes may be $4K/yr, who knows what the utilities are. It's like a really slow-developing tv show every time I talk to him. There is much more I forgot to add, I know, it's already sini-like, tl;dr.



His original contractor likely told him what he wanted to hear, that he could get 6000sqft of house for $150/sqft.

Then the guy and his wife created a plan with specs that would cost $300-500/sqft to build.

I've seen it many times.

People watch the TV shows that all give completely unrealistic expectations of how much it actually costs to build a decent home. Everybody wants high end for track home pricing.

It's exhausting dealing with the unrealistic expectations. That is one of the reasons I'm getting out of the single family home business.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:19 am 
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Wait...why did he follow thru and buy the lot?

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:19 am 
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It's a facade, all right.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:22 am 
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On narrow lots, front facing garages make houses look shitty...especially when people try to do 3-car attached garages.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:25 am 
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Wife and I lived in Naperville for 10 years in a small (<700 sq ft) condo purchased in 2006. Original sale price was $145k. You can probably guess how that ended up.

Moved to Lemont in June last year. Found an insanely good deal on a 2600 sq ft home and are rehabbing bit by bit. Have an alley and can pull through the driveway as not to back out onto a busy main road. Also not a huge fan of garage doors taking up the majority of a house's facade.

Still have the condo and rent it out.


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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:55 am 
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There are so many other parts to this story, I can't even remember them all. I can't answer for his reasons why, I do actually point to his ordeal when talking to the young guys on my shift, when asked I spout my own old-world, depression-era, Dave Ramsey-like ideals: save money, get it in writing, live on less than you make, etc. etc. A few listen.

How he came to get screwed on the lot purchase must come down to trusting the seller and then giving in to the "But I want IT". During the year they were living in grandma's house, he came to the realization that he could not get a loan to build the place. So he took about $15K of house money and spent it on his truck: supercharger, lift kit, big wheels and tires. On a ten YO truck with 180K miles on it. Then he bought a snowmobile on eBay, didn't tell his wife, rented a storage unit to keep it in, didn't ride it because of the lack of snow that winter, then advertised it and sold it at a loss. And freaked out the night he listed it on CL because he left the ad on the printer at home when he came in to work and was afraid his wife would find it!! I've never seen the show Divorce!, but he must have been one of the real people behind HUNG, because that is about the only thing I think would keep a woman with him after all this.

After the dual cash losers, then he starts looking around for different banks to finance the house build, and finds one. Wishing he had the $15K still in cash instead of in his truck. The new bank at least talked him into paring the plans down: he desperately wanted the two story house, but his daughter would not sleep upstairs by herself, so they redesigned the front room into a bedroom to accommodate her, and eliminated most of the second story. I remember him saying the original plans were over 5K sf, and he got a bootleg copy of the plans from the owner of the model house they walked through, that his buddy told him they could build together. Never a good time going to the bank to ask them if you can dump your contractor off of the loan draws so you can replace him mid-build. Things are a little chilly between them, now. I stopped by last week while he was there and got the tour. It has a beautiful view, through the sliding windows that have bowed so badly he cannot latch them. The HVAC is all in, as is the well, but untested. He was pulling the last wires from room down to the main box and the siding was going on.


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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:00 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Hah, there's nothing urban about me. I don't hate front facing, but I like the look of our side loader. Pulte has nice facade's in front. Too bad they don't offer all brick options. The rest of the outside is bland.


I have worked on several Pulte projects. They are probably the worst builders out there.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:03 am 
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Image
Image

This is one for sale in my neighborhood. The garage juts out much more than ours, and the trees obscure the front of the garage, but all the houses have side loads like this.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:08 am 
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K Effective wrote:
There are so many other parts to this story, I can't even remember them all. I can't answer for his reasons why, I do actually point to his ordeal when talking to the young guys on my shift, when asked I spout my own old-world, depression-era, Dave Ramsey-like ideals: save money, get it in writing, live on less than you make, etc. etc. A few listen.

How he came to get screwed on the lot purchase must come down to trusting the seller and then giving in to the "But I want IT". During the year they were living in grandma's house, he came to the realization that he could not get a loan to build the place. So he took about $15K of house money and spent it on his truck: supercharger, lift kit, big wheels and tires. On a ten YO truck with 180K miles on it. Then he bought a snowmobile on eBay, didn't tell his wife, rented a storage unit to keep it in, didn't ride it because of the lack of snow that winter, then advertised it and sold it at a loss. And freaked out the night he listed it on CL because he left the ad on the printer at home when he came in to work and was afraid his wife would find it!! I've never seen the show Divorce!, but he must have been one of the real people behind HUNG, because that is about the only thing I think would keep a woman with him after all this.

After the dual cash losers, then he starts looking around for different banks to finance the house build, and finds one. Wishing he had the $15K still in cash instead of in his truck. The new bank at least talked him into paring the plans down: he desperately wanted the two story house, but his daughter would not sleep upstairs by herself, so they redesigned the front room into a bedroom to accommodate her, and eliminated most of the second story. I remember him saying the original plans were over 5K sf, and he got a bootleg copy of the plans from the owner of the model house they walked through, that his buddy told him they could build together. Never a good time going to the bank to ask them if you can dump your contractor off of the loan draws so you can replace him mid-build. Things are a little chilly between them, now. I stopped by last week while he was there and got the tour. It has a beautiful view, through the sliding windows that have bowed so badly he cannot latch them. The HVAC is all in, as is the well, but untested. He was pulling the last wires from room down to the main box and the siding was going on.


Ahh, it all makes sense now! Your friend is a moron.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:09 am 
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Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Hah, there's nothing urban about me. I don't hate front facing, but I like the look of our side loader. Pulte has nice facade's in front. Too bad they don't offer all brick options. The rest of the outside is bland.


I have worked on several Pulte projects. They are probably the worst builders out there.


I don't understand you. You literally say the opposite of anything I post. I am not sure if you're serious or just trolling.

First, Pulte always ranks very high in customer satisfaction. I have owned three new homes. This is by far the best one I have ever had. I am 13 years in, and not a single crack in the walls from settling or creaky floors. From the moment we bought to the closing, they had by far the best customer service (including mortgage and title services) and solid construction. They fixed any minor issues on my final walk through. I guess I just got lucky.

I did mortgages in grad school, and we worked mostly on new construction loans. I saw the crap places like Neuman and William Ryan homes put buyers though.

But hey you know everything, so who am I to argue? I am sure DB, BR, and KW will be by to second-fourth your opinion. That seems to be the way it goes around here.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:12 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Hah, there's nothing urban about me. I don't hate front facing, but I like the look of our side loader. Pulte has nice facade's in front. Too bad they don't offer all brick options. The rest of the outside is bland.


I have worked on several Pulte projects. They are probably the worst builders out there.


I don't understand you. You literally say the opposite of anything I post. I am not sure if you're serious or just trolling.

First, Pulte always ranks very high in customer satisfaction. I have owned three new homes. This is by far the best one I have ever had. I am 13 years in, and not a single crack in the walls from settling or creaky floors. From the moment we bought to the closing, they had by far the best customer service (including mortgage and title services) and solid construction. They fixed any minor issues on my final walk through. I guess I just got lucky.

I did mortgages in grad school, and we worked mostly on new construction loans. I saw the crap places like Neuman and William Ryan homes put buyers though.

But hey you know everything, so who am I to argue? I am sure DB, BR, and KW will be by to second-fourth your opinion. That seems to be the way it goes around here.


Don't be such a baby. I have worked on MANY projects. I have seen how the proverbial sausage is made. They hire morons, and build shitty houses. There is no reason for you to take it so personally.

Montalbano is equally as shitty as Pulte.

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Last edited by Chus on Sun May 07, 2017 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:14 am 
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Chus, I just don't know if you're serious. Apparently you are. You just seem like such a contrarian. It runs 100% counter to all of my experiences.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:16 am 
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I don't know shit about house construction, but because dman likes them I'll just believe Pulte is some libertarian company that hates unions and the executives all spend their money on travel baseball teams for their kids :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:20 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Chus, I just don't know if you're serious. Apparently you are. You just seem like such a contrarian. It runs 100% counter to all of my experiences.


I have been in more new construction homes than probably anybody here. Certainly more than you. I have seen good builders and bad builders. Don't take it so personally.

The shortcuts that I have seen on Pulte jobs are sickening. I would never buy a Pulte home.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:23 am 
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K Effective wrote:
Coworker of mine, he's a year older 52. They make $150-200K combined, one ten YO daughter. Wanted to build McMansion in the country, found a beautiful 4 acre spot. Sold their suburban home, guy holding the lot doubles the price (coworker's fault for no written agreement). Bye, Bye equity. Live in Grandma's empty house for a year or so trying to save for the house, family wants them out to cash out the house. So they rent elsewhere. Acting as his own General Contractor (another mistake), he gets best buddy since Kindergarten to be carpenter (his job). Bank trims his loan total back several times, so he keeps cutting down the house, originally over 6K sf. Now down to 3300sf on main level, no second story, he can afford the interest-only payments of $1400/mo., but the only way to get it built is by doing half of the trade work himself. Runs out of time and tears up suburban riding lawn mower on steroids trying to excavate the basement, so has to hire it done. That causes them to miss the window for the poured wall contractor, so he goes to next available. There is a reason why good contractors are always busy, and shitty ones are not busy. Gets caught saying he will do grade work, does not do real good quality job for flat work prep, and they pour the basement floor like it is a mini golf course, you can actually trip yourself just walking across it.

Meanwhile, at work, he tries to move up the ladder to the next level, which requires 18 months of classroom training, but rewards with 25% pay increase. He struggles with concepts in a class of 20-something engineers, and kills all his time to work on the house, as per the loan. Buddy starts framing the monster, but has other projects , too. Late november, it's about shelled in, but he has no time to roof it, ends up hiring a crew of Spanish guys, who knock out about 80%, ask to be paid and head back out of country for the winter. No way he'll get the plumbing done on time, so ends up hiring that out. He does the septic system himself with the oft-repaired lawn mower with loader and backhoe, but has to fight with county inspector on design (he loses), and trench blocks the only access for the well driller to get to the well site. Of course, the pared-down design now only included one water furnace, and they don't want to start install until the well is in and proven. He begins wiring on off hours, gets kicked out of class for bad grades. Ground froze enough to get well rig in, HVAC gets done in two weeks, now it all waits on the electric and he is behind. Builder takes six straight weeks off with no activity, no doubt working on the next project. They become fierce enemies. Now, he talks of hiring an electrician to finish the main box. Every time he hires a portion out, it seems to cost about $10K.

He says his wife went furniture shopping lat week and bought a $3400 sectional for the living room. The guys at work are constantly telling him not to skimp on the finishes, knowing that you can't try to sell an $800K house with plywood countertops and re-used plumbing fixtures. Stone work is out, all Smart siding, which is just OSB with a grain finish. Still not planned for is the 500 foot driveway and several retaining walls that need to be built, or any other landscaping. But he has a nice 3 car garage.

Poor guy is gonna lose it. In the end, he may scrimp it down to $650K mortgage, taxes may be $4K/yr, who knows what the utilities are. It's like a really slow-developing tv show every time I talk to him. There is much more I forgot to add, I know, it's already sini-like, tl;dr.


please tell me this guy watches joel osteen every sunday morning.

seriously though, that is an absolute train wreck. and i bet it's not all that uncommon.


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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:26 am 
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I built hundreds of homes at Auburn Lakes in Plainfield. The kids they hired to follow up punch lists were a joke. This one fat guy would walk around the house with a piece of chalk on a stick, and would circle garbage laying on the floor, instead of just picking it up. At least once a week, I would get into an argument with this idiot because I refused to pick up other people's garbage. When we would start in a new house, I would grab a cardboard box, and put it next to my bench. I threw garbage in it as I worked, so at the end of the day, I picked up my box, and threw it in the dumpster, rather than spending a bunch of time picking shit up off the floor. It's not my problem that other people weren't smart enough to do as I did. Sorry bro, I'm not touching those fucking cigarette butts. You do it.

At Augusta Village in Bolingbrook, it was cheaper to have us run a central return on each floor, instead of individual returns all over the house. This made for extremely loud returns on each floor. But hey, they saved a few bucks. I could go on and on, but I don't want to make denis cry.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:30 am 
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Chus wrote:
I built hundreds of homes at Auburn Lakes in Plainfield.

Hundreds of times! Thousands!

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:37 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Chus wrote:
I built hundreds of homes at Auburn Lakes in Plainfield.

Hundreds of times! Thousands!


Thousands?!


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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:48 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Hah, there's nothing urban about me. I don't hate front facing, but I like the look of our side loader. Pulte has nice facade's in front. Too bad they don't offer all brick options. The rest of the outside is bland.


I have worked on several Pulte projects. They are probably the worst builders out there.


I don't understand you. You literally say the opposite of anything I post. I am not sure if you're serious or just trolling.

No, that's Chas.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:50 am 
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Central returns on each floor. Nice.
I've got one in royal Melbourne that has two central returns.
Any room with the door closed lime bedrooms.dont heat or cool. The upstairs is wildly out of balance. I think the upstairs hvac unit is operating under 1.4 inwc and something like .9 is In the return one and of course we must use those 3m filtrete filters and yeah we ruin a heat exchanger every 3 to 5 years.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:55 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Well, they tend to want everyone using alleys, which makes sense in theory (the garage is basically your service entrance; why make it the feature of your house's facade?), but lots of people don't like alleys and newer zoning codes prohibit them anyway. The battle is probably lost.

I don't see the problem with garages off to the side but I'm not a graduate student in architecture like the author of the blog so I guess I have to defer to her.




Most lots in the city aren't wide enough for attached garages, people like them but you just don't have the room unless you have a 50' x 125' lot.

I hate siding, these young people under 30 love that smart siding, I like all brick n stone.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:56 am 
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Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Chus, I just don't know if you're serious. Apparently you are. You just seem like such a contrarian. It runs 100% counter to all of my experiences.


I have been in more new construction homes than probably anybody here. Certainly more than you. I have seen good builders and bad builders. Don't take it so personally.

The shortcuts that I have seen on Pulte jobs are sickening. I would never buy a Pulte home.




Yeah, pulte is shit..hartz is the absolute worst.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:58 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Central returns on each floor. Nice.
I've got one in royal Melbourne that has two central returns.
Any room with the door closed lime bedrooms.dont heat or cool. The upstairs is wildly out of balance. I think the upstairs hvac unit is operating under 1.4 inwc and something like .9 is In the return one and of course we must use those 3m filtrete filters and yeah we ruin a heat exchanger every 3 to 5 years.


Yeah, but their customer service is rated A+, mostly by people who don't have the slightest idea about building homes.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:01 am 
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312player wrote:
I hate siding, these young people under 30 love that smart siding, I like all brick n stone.


Drive through any new-ish subdivision, and look at all of the cheap siding peeling away from the houses. Brick and stone is definitely the way to go. The house has better resale value, and it is a better insulator than siding. It's expensive, but totally worth it.

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:03 am 
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W_Z wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Chus wrote:
I built hundreds of homes at Auburn Lakes in Plainfield.

Hundreds of times! Thousands!


Thousands?!


Image

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 Post subject: Re: McMansion Hell
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:06 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
I don't know shit about house construction, but because dman likes them I'll just believe Pulte is some libertarian company that hates unions and the executives all spend their money on travel baseball teams for their kids :lol:


Shit, you discovered the secret! :D

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