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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:49 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The most shocking thing in the aftermath of this is how they are downplaying the death toll.

They know at this point 100+ are dead yet they are still trying to run with their 30 dead as of today. The media knows the real story there. They have spoken with the firefighters and other 1st responders. Yet they keep towing the line of waiting for the coroner to confirm each death individually.

That would never fly with the US media. They would have a graphic on the bottom of the screen screaming in large type what the death toll is estimated as. It's making me question how independent the UK press really is.


:lol:

Isn't that the responsible thing to do?

Not really, if they've spoken to fire officials off-the-record who give them the real death toll, that's a legitimate source you can run with. Those are people on the scene who probably know more than the officials who are releasing the fake numbers being reported.

The media is being accused of down playing the death toll to cover for the negligence that led to this. This type of control over the information is the type of thing you seen in China where they downplay death tolls of industrial accident or the Soviets when they had events like Chernobyl. I can't believe I'm seeing this in a nation with a supposedly free press.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:55 am 
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How would the fire officials know the death toll?

As far as I know, the correct way to figure out a death toll is to count dead bodies. Not "guess."

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:00 am 
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IMU wrote:
How would the fire officials know the death toll?

As far as I know, the correct way to figure out a death toll is to count dead bodies. Not "guess."

Fire officials have gone up through the building already. They are saying the toll will be 100-150 (trending closer to 100 though)

That's a better source than bureaucrats who haven't even gone into the building.

The building was unsurvivable so if you know someone was in the building and didn't get out, they had a 0% chance of survival.

Here's a good commentary of the govt downplaying the death toll. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 92871.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:04 am 
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Sky News is reporting live from a major protest in Kensington. They are chanting "Not 17" to protest what is pretty clearly a cover-up by officials here. As I said, I expect to see this in China and nations where the government controls the media, not in a free nation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:07 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
IMU wrote:
How would the fire officials know the death toll?

As far as I know, the correct way to figure out a death toll is to count dead bodies. Not "guess."

Fire officials have gone up through the building already. They are saying the toll will be 100-150 (trending closer to 100 though)

That's a better source than bureaucrats who haven't even gone into the building.

The building was unsurvivable so if you know someone was in the building and didn't get out, they had a 0% chance of survival.

I've read as recently as this morning that they haven't been able to fully sweep yet due to the condition of the building.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:09 am 
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IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
IMU wrote:
How would the fire officials know the death toll?

As far as I know, the correct way to figure out a death toll is to count dead bodies. Not "guess."

Fire officials have gone up through the building already. They are saying the toll will be 100-150 (trending closer to 100 though)

That's a better source than bureaucrats who haven't even gone into the building.

The building was unsurvivable so if you know someone was in the building and didn't get out, they had a 0% chance of survival.

I've read as recently as this morning that they haven't been able to fully sweep yet due to the condition of the building.

UK media I have seen says they have been able to reach the top floor. It will take weeks to recover all of the bodies but the fire fighters who apparently are not allowed to speak to media (but have off the record) are saying with certainty it will be 100+.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:12 am 
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police are escorting council staff out of the Kensington town hall and the crowd is trying to literally beat the shit out of them.

Sky News link here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

I've never seen anything like this, and I can't blame the protesters one bit. There is some real justified anger there.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:25 am 
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IMU wrote:

I've read as recently as this morning that they haven't been able to fully sweep yet due to the condition of the building.
That is a hot take.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:36 am 
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Up to 79 dead, death toll climbing

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:46 am 
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312player wrote:
Up to 79 dead, death toll climbing


Climbing like a thermometer on a summer day or in this case a fire

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:54 am 
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4610428/Artist-named-fourth-victim-Grenfell-Tower-blaze.html

Haven't seen a collection of dead muslims like this since Obama was drone bombing Afghan wedding parties.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:34 am 
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https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... tower-fire

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People who died in the Grenfell fire might be alive today if regulators had required sprinkler systems. This does not play well for the Tories.

But before we start hanging them in effigy, there are a couple of things we should consider. The first is that, even if the regulation had passed, and required existing developers to retrofit sprinklers into older buildings, Grenfell Tower might not have gotten a sprinkler system before the fire occurred. Regulations are not implemented like instant coffee; they take time to formulate, and further time for businesses to comply. All the political will in the world cannot conjure up enough sprinkler systems, and sprinkler-system installers, to instantly transform a nation’s housing stock.

This, however, is only a quibble; even if Grenfell Tower could not have been saved, there are surely other buildings where fires will soon occur that would benefit from sprinklers. Must we wait for those deaths before we can say that his was a bad calculation?

Well, no. But we should wait until we can establish that it was actually a bad calculation.

what

Quote:
Back to the case at hand: Maybe sprinkler systems should be required in multifamily dwellings. It’s completely possible that the former housing minister made the wrong call. But his comment indicates he was thinking about the question in the right way -- taking seriously the fact that safety regulations come at a cost, which may exceed their benefit. Such calculations have to be made, no matter how horrified the tut-tutting after the fact.

what

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:36 am 
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No way in hell I'm living in a high rise without a sprinkler system. wtf.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:36 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-16/beware-of-blaming-government-for-london-tower-fire

Quote:
People who died in the Grenfell fire might be alive today if regulators had required sprinkler systems. This does not play well for the Tories.

But before we start hanging them in effigy, there are a couple of things we should consider. The first is that, even if the regulation had passed, and required existing developers to retrofit sprinklers into older buildings, Grenfell Tower might not have gotten a sprinkler system before the fire occurred. Regulations are not implemented like instant coffee; they take time to formulate, and further time for businesses to comply. All the political will in the world cannot conjure up enough sprinkler systems, and sprinkler-system installers, to instantly transform a nation’s housing stock.

This, however, is only a quibble; even if Grenfell Tower could not have been saved, there are surely other buildings where fires will soon occur that would benefit from sprinklers. Must we wait for those deaths before we can say that his was a bad calculation?

Well, no. But we should wait until we can establish that it was actually a bad calculation.

what

Quote:
Back to the case at hand: Maybe sprinkler systems should be required in multifamily dwellings. It’s completely possible that the former housing minister made the wrong call. But his comment indicates he was thinking about the question in the right way -- taking seriously the fact that safety regulations come at a cost, which may exceed their benefit. Such calculations have to be made, no matter how horrified the tut-tutting after the fact.

what
Score another victory for suburban life!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:11 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-16/beware-of-blaming-government-for-london-tower-fire

Quote:
People who died in the Grenfell fire might be alive today if regulators had required sprinkler systems. This does not play well for the Tories.

But before we start hanging them in effigy, there are a couple of things we should consider. The first is that, even if the regulation had passed, and required existing developers to retrofit sprinklers into older buildings, Grenfell Tower might not have gotten a sprinkler system before the fire occurred. Regulations are not implemented like instant coffee; they take time to formulate, and further time for businesses to comply. All the political will in the world cannot conjure up enough sprinkler systems, and sprinkler-system installers, to instantly transform a nation’s housing stock.

This, however, is only a quibble; even if Grenfell Tower could not have been saved, there are surely other buildings where fires will soon occur that would benefit from sprinklers. Must we wait for those deaths before we can say that his was a bad calculation?

Well, no. But we should wait until we can establish that it was actually a bad calculation.

what

Quote:
Back to the case at hand: Maybe sprinkler systems should be required in multifamily dwellings. It’s completely possible that the former housing minister made the wrong call. But his comment indicates he was thinking about the question in the right way -- taking seriously the fact that safety regulations come at a cost, which may exceed their benefit. Such calculations have to be made, no matter how horrified the tut-tutting after the fact.

what


I love the British.

"Listen, we could install devices to make people safe. But that costs money. And are the lives of the commoners really worth the extra cost and effort?"

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:40 am 
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Megan McGrundle is an American.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:01 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Megan McGrundle is an American.


An American used tut-tutting?

Well I'll be...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:40 am 
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Don't ever forget Europeans are much more enlightened than we are.

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