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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:13 am 
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Hockey Gay wrote:
America wrote:
Thousands of westerners have traveled to North Korea

All idiots


This thread is dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:13 am 
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I dont get why this is a conservative thing.
First its not outrage im feeling. Its sadness that a young kid was murdered for nothing by a crazy ass government.
Second yeah going to north korea is stupid but i dont think going there is something that someone should be killed for.
Kids dead man. Because a whack job government killed him for no reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:15 am 
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http://thehill.com/policy/defense/31750 ... telligence

Did this generate anything close to this level of "outrage"?

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:16 am 
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long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I will explain how the analogy is false. The American Govt and the police aren't known to be oppressive.

Wait, really?

Quote:
When a person becomes involved in a physical conflict with the police the citizen still has Civil Rights which must be adhered to. If a police officer violates those rights they are expected to be punished according to the rule of law. The police aren't above the law theoretically. Citizens are still supposed to have rights. N. Korea is different though. It is an acknowledged violator of human and Civil rights. People that visit are doing so "at their own risks".

There's international law regarding human rights as well, but North Korea proudly and blatantly ignores it. But because that's expected of North Korea that makes it OK? Why should American police be subject to rule of law but the North Korean government not? This is a country that has a three-generations rule when it comes to acts of "sedition" and treats their own much like they did Warmbier.

You are applying an ethical double standard.


I'm not saying that N. Korea should get away with anything. They aren't exempt from blame. Actually most of the blame lies with their Govt. We aren't going to war over their values and until we do its moot to argue over their validity.

The United States is currently at war with the DPRK, fyi.

And really when you blame this kid for being tortured to death you are saying the Norks should get away with it. If you didn't think they should be allowed to murder people you would blame them for the murdering, not the kid for getting murdered.



We are at war with N. Korea currently?

So if they "shouldn't get away with it" then what do you suppose that the U.S. Gov't should do?

No peace treaty has ever been signed to end the Korean War, just a truce to return prisoners.

The United States could easily lean hard enough on China to get them to break diplomatic relations with the DPRK, which would lead to collapse of the North Korea government within a year or two. We haven't done that because its never been worth it for the USA to do that, maybe that changes now.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:17 am 
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long time guy wrote:
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/317501-trump-ordered-raid-in-yemen-approved-without-sufficient-intelligence

Did this generate anything close to this level of "outrage"?

The president sneezes and its generates DEFCON 0 levels of outrage from liberals and the media, so I'm absolutely sure that story did.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:20 am 
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pizza_Place: Kim Jung's You Big Dumby and Pasta
Hello stupids.
Firstly allow kim jung to say please to come safe to people republic without fear and full of love and reverence for you pal kim jung. I show you wonderful item such as lady boy sex friend for chipmonk cheek and our glorious landfill water well for freshest of yummy water for your enjoy. We offer many wonderful funs to be had.
Second we kill you if you steel from kim jung. Please not to be taking towel from hotel or bar of soap. Feel free to use hot landfill water to warm hand lotion for the nonkey spank lubricate but leave my poster alone.
We are a free country to enforce law as we want to. Do we complains about you killing negro for running stop sine? No. We allow you to do as you like and no interferences. So we beet a dumby collage kid for being dumby dumbass. Tell kim jung you no want to beet chipmonks cheek for same reasoning? You cannot say that. Send him to kim jung for reconditioning and reeducate.
Thank you for your time fat lasy shithead american.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:21 am 
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America wrote:
long time guy wrote:
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/317501-trump-ordered-raid-in-yemen-approved-without-sufficient-intelligence

Did this generate anything close to this level of "outrage"?

The president sneezes and its generates DEFCON 0 levels of outrage from liberals and the media, so I'm absolutely sure that story did.



There wasn't much outrage on this message board. Barely a mention from those that typically traffic in everything "fake news" related.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:22 am 
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long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/317501-trump-ordered-raid-in-yemen-approved-without-sufficient-intelligence

Did this generate anything close to this level of "outrage"?

The president sneezes and its generates DEFCON 0 levels of outrage from liberals and the media, so I'm absolutely sure that story did.



There wasn't much outrage on this message board. Barely a mention from those that typically traffic in everything "fake news" related.

Go dig through the hundred page Trump thread I'm sure you'll find something.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:22 am 
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America wrote:
long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I will explain how the analogy is false. The American Govt and the police aren't known to be oppressive.

Wait, really?

Quote:
When a person becomes involved in a physical conflict with the police the citizen still has Civil Rights which must be adhered to. If a police officer violates those rights they are expected to be punished according to the rule of law. The police aren't above the law theoretically. Citizens are still supposed to have rights. N. Korea is different though. It is an acknowledged violator of human and Civil rights. People that visit are doing so "at their own risks".

There's international law regarding human rights as well, but North Korea proudly and blatantly ignores it. But because that's expected of North Korea that makes it OK? Why should American police be subject to rule of law but the North Korean government not? This is a country that has a three-generations rule when it comes to acts of "sedition" and treats their own much like they did Warmbier.

You are applying an ethical double standard.


I'm not saying that N. Korea should get away with anything. They aren't exempt from blame. Actually most of the blame lies with their Govt. We aren't going to war over their values and until we do its moot to argue over their validity.

The United States is currently at war with the DPRK, fyi.

And really when you blame this kid for being tortured to death you are saying the Norks should get away with it. If you didn't think they should be allowed to murder people you would blame them for the murdering, not the kid for getting murdered.



We are at war with N. Korea currently?

So if they "shouldn't get away with it" then what do you suppose that the U.S. Gov't should do?

No peace treaty has ever been signed to end the Korean War, just a truce to return prisoners.

The United States could easily lean hard enough on China to get them to break diplomatic relations with the DPRK, which would lead to collapse of the North Korea government within a year or two. We haven't done that because its never been worth it for the USA to do that, maybe that changes now.



The U.S. isn't currently at war with N. Korea.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:26 am 
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long time guy wrote:

The U.S. isn't currently at war with N. Korea.

Korean War has never formally ended. This is a clear matter of fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:30 am 
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America wrote:
long time guy wrote:

The U.S. isn't currently at war with N. Korea.

Korean War has never formally ended. This is a clear matter of fact.



Well this kid is a casualty of war and why is there all the fuss with this being the case?

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:31 am 
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long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:

The U.S. isn't currently at war with N. Korea.

Korean War has never formally ended. This is a clear matter of fact.



Well this kid is a casualty of war and why is there all the fuss with this being the case?
Even in war the targeting of civilians with no military justification for death is a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:31 am 
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long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:

The U.S. isn't currently at war with N. Korea.

Korean War has never formally ended. This is a clear matter of fact.



Well this kid is a casualty of war and why is there all the fuss with this being the case?

Because he was tortured to death.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:40 am 
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So -it's fine that he was tortured and killed because he's a idiot for going and possibly stealing a poster. He thought he was above the law. But if you sell cigarettes or CDs outside a store then fight the police it's a national outrage. Nothing stupid or asking for it in that behavior.

It's pretty amazing that certain segments of the media can sell that, and posters here buy into that line of logic.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:41 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:

The U.S. isn't currently at war with N. Korea.

Korean War has never formally ended. This is a clear matter of fact.



Well this kid is a casualty of war and why is there all the fuss with this being the case?
Even in war the targeting of civilians with no military justification for death is a big deal.


Ask the citizens of Tokyo who we firebombed .

And Korean War was a misnomer, it technically was/is a "police action" :wink: for which no formal declaration of war was ever made by Congress.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:48 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
So -it's fine that he was tortured and killed because he's a idiot for going and possibly stealing a poster. He thought he was above the law. But if you sell cigarettes or CDs outside a store then fight the police it's a national outrage. Nothing stupid or asking for it in that behavior.

It's pretty amazing that certain segments of the media can sell that, and posters here buy into that line of logic.



I haven't really found those segments and I don't think anyone is suggesting that he should have been tortured and killed for going. He shouldn't have been killed and he also shouldn't have gone to N. Korea. Those two are interrelated. It isn't different from those that question the parenting of people who allow their children to be unintended in dangerous places. I'm sure some of the same people criticizing the left were also the same ones questioning the parents of the kid they found dead about a month ago. This situation is no different.


Every argument doesn't have to be politicized either. This really isn't a right or left argument although it has devolved into one.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:

The U.S. isn't currently at war with N. Korea.

Korean War has never formally ended. This is a clear matter of fact.



Well this kid is a casualty of war and why is there all the fuss with this being the case?
Even in war the targeting of civilians with no military justification for death is a big deal.



Bombing and killing citizens of foreign countries is never really a big deal. The outrage here is proof of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:53 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
America wrote:
long time guy wrote:

The U.S. isn't currently at war with N. Korea.

Korean War has never formally ended. This is a clear matter of fact.



Well this kid is a casualty of war and why is there all the fuss with this being the case?
Even in war the targeting of civilians with no military justification for death is a big deal.


Ask the citizens of Tokyo who we firebombed .

And Korean War was a misnomer, it technically was/is a "police action" :wink: for which no formal declaration of war was ever made by Congress.


Yep. When he talks about peace treaties he is also providing "alternative facts". They agreed to cease fighting with the dividing line being the 38th Parallel. That effectively ended the war and led to the creation of South Korea.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:54 am 
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long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
So -it's fine that he was tortured and killed because he's a idiot for going and possibly stealing a poster. He thought he was above the law. But if you sell cigarettes or CDs outside a store then fight the police it's a national outrage. Nothing stupid or asking for it in that behavior.

It's pretty amazing that certain segments of the media can sell that, and posters here buy into that line of logic.



I haven't really found those segments and I don't think anyone is suggesting that he should have been tortured and killed for going. He shouldn't have been killed and he also shouldn't have gone to N. Korea. Those two are interrelated. It isn't different from those that question the parenting of people who allow their children to be unintended in dangerous places. I'm sure some of the same people criticizing the left were also the same ones questioning the parents of the kid they found dead about a month ago. This situation is no different.


Every argument doesn't have to be politicized either. This really isn't a right or left argument although it has devolved into one.


It's not a right/left debate. It's a question of what people choose to be outraged by. RR said this kid was asking for it because he thought he was "above it". Ogie says it's good for the gene pool that he died because of his stupid choices. Yet, if a confrontation with the police happens here they are not going to blame the dead person for putting him or herself in that situation. That's all.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:56 am 
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I think the one trump card for being rightfully outraged at this story is the guy - dumb or not - is a citizen of this country. He went to another country, something most probably uneventful happened, he was detained, possibly tortured, etc., and then was sent back brain dead. That's not supposed to happen, and the administration should get involved. This is different if he murdered someone, stole secrets, etc., but if the details of this story are true, then this isn't supposed to happen. This seems like an event tailor made for someone like Trump to take advantage of - it has all the right ingredients. Something happened to an American citizen at the hands of a country that's pretty much universally disliked, so it'd be easy for Trump to talk tough and actually get lauded for it. But he botched it.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:03 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Bombing and killing citizens of foreign countries is never really a big deal. The outrage here is proof of that.

You just make things up don't you?

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:11 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
So -it's fine that he was tortured and killed because he's a idiot for going and possibly stealing a poster. He thought he was above the law. But if you sell cigarettes or CDs outside a store then fight the police it's a national outrage. Nothing stupid or asking for it in that behavior.

It's pretty amazing that certain segments of the media can sell that, and posters here buy into that line of logic.



I haven't really found those segments and I don't think anyone is suggesting that he should have been tortured and killed for going. He shouldn't have been killed and he also shouldn't have gone to N. Korea. Those two are interrelated. It isn't different from those that question the parenting of people who allow their children to be unintended in dangerous places. I'm sure some of the same people criticizing the left were also the same ones questioning the parents of the kid they found dead about a month ago. This situation is no different.


Every argument doesn't have to be politicized either. This really isn't a right or left argument although it has devolved into one.


It's not a right/left debate. It's a question of what people choose to be outraged by. RR said this kid was asking for it because he thought he was "above it". Ogie says it's good for the gene pool that he died because of his stupid choices. Yet, if a confrontation with the police happens here they are not going to blame the dead person for putting him or herself in that situation. That's all.


I simply remarked that I wasn't surprised by what sadly happened. I called the kid an idiot adventure traveler with more money than functioning brain cells. That's to a large degree different than saying he asked for it. It's a sad set of events but imo there are far, far more others who are deserving of my sympathy. Despite that it remains queerly necessary to note that I never condoned or defended what the N Koreans do/did, but some choose to wrongly still see it that way.

I didn't initially mention the kid's race, gender or political affiliation, just that he picked a dumb jump off point for this entire matter. I am/was irritated by those ginning up the outrage of others, be it for politics, profit or other cynical reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:14 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
I didn't initially mention the kid's race, gender or political affiliation, just that he picked a dumb jump off point for this entire matter. I am/was irritated by those ginning up the outrage of others, be it for politics, profit or other cynical reasons.

Privilege is a dog whistle for those terms and everyone knows it. We get it, you're happy a white kid got tortured to death by North Korea.

And your outrage gets ginned up at the slightest mention of Trump so this ledge from which you talk on the rest of us exists only in your mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Look guys, I never defended North Korea. I just said it was this kid's fault the North Koreans murdered him.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:22 pm 
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America wrote:
Look guys, I never defended North Korea. I just said it was this kid's fault the North Koreans murdered him.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
America wrote:
Look guys, I never defended North Korea. I just said it was this kid's fault the North Koreans murdered him.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

Yup.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
America wrote:
Look guys, I never defended North Korea. I just said it was this kid's fault the North Koreans murdered him.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

Agreed
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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bombing and killing citizens of foreign countries is never really a big deal. The outrage here is proof of that.

You just make things up don't you?


If this place were really outraged by it then I would be. Your response is illustrative of what I am referencing. Rather than focus on the topic at hand you choose to focus on me. I unlike you have the facts on my side. Its a bastard when that happens isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:42 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I think the one trump card for being rightfully outraged at this story is the guy - dumb or not - is a citizen of this country. He went to another country, something most probably uneventful happened, he was detained, possibly tortured, etc., and then was sent back brain dead. That's not supposed to happen, and the administration should get involved. This is different if he murdered someone, stole secrets, etc., but if the details of this story are true, then this isn't supposed to happen. This seems like an event tailor made for someone like Trump to take advantage of - it has all the right ingredients. Something happened to an American citizen at the hands of a country that's pretty much universally disliked, so it'd be easy for Trump to talk tough and actually get lauded for it. But he botched it.


I guess when people said that running government is not the same as running for govt this is the sort of thing that they were talking about. Is there any doubt what candidate Trump would have been bloviating about if this had occurred? Where are all the people that lauded him for his cowboy style rhetoric? That really is the essential question. What will Trump's response be?

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Warmbier
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:48 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Bombing and killing citizens of foreign countries is never really a big deal. The outrage here is proof of that.

You just make things up don't you?


If this place were really outraged by it then I would be. Your response is illustrative of what I am referencing. Rather than focus on the topic at hand you choose to focus on me. I unlike you have the facts on my side. Its a bastard when that happens isn't it?

You said it is never a big deal. That's absolutely made up. I can prove at least one time it was a big deal. Do you think I cannot?

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