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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:47 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:49 pm 
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CallerBob, what is the address to that religious message board where they have parallel arguments to this board, Religiousfanatics.com?

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.

No--I totally agree with that. There's no directive in Christianity that says that. But I just don't know if there is one in Islam.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy.


States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate.

Sounds like you missed his point.


It's becoming damn near impossible to have a rational discussion with religious people. They don't even address the points you make.

As far as I'm aware, no one in this thread has called for the state eradication of religion (that would be completely un-American), yet two of these guys are rambling on about communist Russia. And they're blaming a religion (Islam) expanding because of a lack of religion in the area.


What a great response.

It's hard to have a conversation with people that acknowledge history that I choose to deny because I'm too lazy to investigate said history, or I simply choose to deny its existence.


Communist Russia has ZERO to do with this argument. WFR is of the opinion that eliminating religion would help, but he didn't at all call for STATE-SPONSORED elimination of religion. If you're going to argue, read first.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.


No, it wouldn't. People interpret religious teachings to justify whatever beliefs they want to hold.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:53 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
[

No, it wouldn't. People interpret religious teachings to justify whatever beliefs they want to hold.


Exactly!

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:53 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.

No--I totally agree with that. There's no directive in Christianity that says that. But I just don't know if there is one in Islam.


Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:54 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.

No--I totally agree with that. There's no directive in Christianity that says that. But I just don't know if there is one in Islam.


There are numerous ones as written in the Holy books of Islam. Take some time and look them up

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:

Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.


Good thing we invented Terminator machines before them.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.


No, it wouldn't. People interpret religious teachings to justify whatever beliefs they want to hold.

I used to think that--but there are some good people out there. Of course, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:56 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:

Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.


Good thing we invented Terminator machines before them.


I'm not understanding your jokes here, denis.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:56 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.


No, it wouldn't. People interpret religious teachings to justify whatever beliefs they want to hold.


Do it then. Make a reasonable argument based on something from the New Testament that supports blowing yourself up in a pizza parlor. I don't believe you can.

Beyond that, there are no Christians who are widely accepted as learned religious scholars who support such beliefs.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:57 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.

No--I totally agree with that. There's no directive in Christianity that says that. But I just don't know if there is one in Islam.


There are numerous ones as written in the Holy books of Islam. Take some time and look them up


"And the Lord said, 'Whack ye all the serpents which crawl on their bellies and thy town shall be a beacon unto others.'"

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.


No, it wouldn't. People interpret religious teachings to justify whatever beliefs they want to hold.


Do it then. Make a reasonable argument based on something from the New Testament that supports blowing yourself up in a pizza parlor. I don't believe you can.

Beyond that, there are no Christians who are widely accepted as learned religious scholars who support such beliefs.


That's the point. A crazy person doesn't have to make a reasonable argument. They just have to believe what they want to believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:58 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.

No--I totally agree with that. There's no directive in Christianity that says that. But I just don't know if there is one in Islam.


There are numerous ones as written in the Holy books of Islam. Take some time and look them up


"And the Lord said, 'Whack ye all the serpents which crawl on their bellies and thy town shall be a beacon unto others.'"


A verse that advocates killing snakes, what am I missing here?
Image


Last edited by Caller Bob on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:58 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Islam is not the enemy. Islamic states are the enemy.


States? terrorists don't even belong to states. they try to find "non-states) from which to operate.

Sounds like you missed his point.


It's becoming damn near impossible to have a rational discussion with religious people. They don't even address the points you make.

As far as I'm aware, no one in this thread has called for the state eradication of religion (that would be completely un-American), yet two of these guys are rambling on about communist Russia. And they're blaming a religion (Islam) expanding because of a lack of religion in the area.


What a great response.

It's hard to have a conversation with people that acknowledge history that I choose to deny because I'm too lazy to investigate said history, or I simply choose to deny its existence.


Communist Russia has ZERO to do with this argument. WFR is of the opinion that eliminating religion would help, but he didn't at all call for STATE-SPONSORED elimination of religion. If you're going to argue, read first.


There are numerous Communist regimes that have called for the elimination of religion. Russia, China and Albania for sure.

If you are going to join someone else's conversation, then reading BEFORE you RESPOND would be HELPFUL for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Only way to stop ISIS is genocide against Muslims.

At this point can anyone honestly answer no to the question, "would the world be a better place if there were no Muslims in it?"

Let's round em all up then gas em, but this time be sure to finish the job so we don't have to hear about it for at least seventy-some years.

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Last edited by Don Tiny on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:59 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.


No, it wouldn't. People interpret religious teachings to justify whatever beliefs they want to hold.


Do it then. Make a reasonable argument based on something from the New Testament that supports blowing yourself up in a pizza parlor. I don't believe you can.

Beyond that, there are no Christians who are widely accepted as learned religious scholars who support such beliefs.


That's the point. A crazy person doesn't have to make a reasonable argument. They just have to believe what they want to believe.


Now you're making a case that there is a higher percentage of "crazy" Muslims than there are of any other religion. I don't believe that could possibly be the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
What were the directives that you are referring to brick?
The ones that you "aren't supposed to take literally". I'm sure you know them.


I don't.

Speak up.
Just look it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:

A verse that advocates killing snakes, what am I missing here?
Image


One of the very best Simpsons episodes...top five....

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
If you are going to join someone else's conversation, then reading BEFORE you RESPOND would be HELPFUL for you.



Good God, you still don't understand! No one is calling for state-sponsored elimination of religion.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
What were the directives that you are referring to brick?
The ones that you "aren't supposed to take literally". I'm sure you know them.


I don't.

Speak up.
Just look it up.


So you got nothing?

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:

Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.


Good thing we invented Terminator machines before them.


I'm not understanding your jokes here, denis.


Too coherent for you. I understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:04 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
If you are going to join someone else's conversation, then reading BEFORE you RESPOND would be HELPFUL for you.



Good God, you still don't understand! No one is calling for state-sponsored elimination of religion.


He usually does this type of thing under his "Panther" account but he must have got his "log ins" mixed up today.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.


No, it wouldn't. People interpret religious teachings to justify whatever beliefs they want to hold.


Do it then. Make a reasonable argument based on something from the New Testament that supports blowing yourself up in a pizza parlor. I don't believe you can.

Beyond that, there are no Christians who are widely accepted as learned religious scholars who support such beliefs.


That's the point. A crazy person doesn't have to make a reasonable argument. They just have to believe what they want to believe.


Now you're making a case that there is a higher percentage of "crazy" Muslims than there are of any other religion. I don't believe that could possibly be the case.


No, I'm in fact not doing that. I'm telling you that any religious text can be used to believe stupid things. Islam doesn't have a huge rate of violence because of its written word. It has a higher rate because of its current culture and the radical elements that are raising children to believe the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
What were the directives that you are referring to brick?
The ones that you "aren't supposed to take literally". I'm sure you know them.


I don't.

Speak up.
Just look it up.


So you got nothing?

It's on the same internet as all those gay organizations that are against gay marriage. Look it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Beyond that, there are no Christians who are widely accepted as learned religious scholars who support such beliefs.

Perhaps there would be if Christians had been subjected to the centuries of imperialist violence the US and Europe have launched on the Middle East. But I realize that brings actual materialism into the picture instead of the reductive and convenient motherlode of bad ideas rubbish.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Members of individual Christian faiths did attempt to forcibly covert people, and obviously many Christians are evangelical (they want to spread the faith), but yeah, I don't think that there is any "we gotta take it over for God" directive at the center of Christianity.


I'm not arguing that Christians, particularly those from Catholic Church at its most monolithic, didn't commit many atrocities. But I would suggest that the religious aspects in the cases you seem to be referencing, i.e. colonialism, weren't the focus but rather just a tool used in pursuit of other, completely secular goals, i.e. glomming natural resources.

It would be difficult to draw a straight line from the Bible, especially the New Testament, in order to justify such behavior. Not so with what is currently happening with Islam.


No, it wouldn't. People interpret religious teachings to justify whatever beliefs they want to hold.


Do it then. Make a reasonable argument based on something from the New Testament that supports blowing yourself up in a pizza parlor. I don't believe you can.

Beyond that, there are no Christians who are widely accepted as learned religious scholars who support such beliefs.


That's the point. A crazy person doesn't have to make a reasonable argument. They just have to believe what they want to believe.


Now you're making a case that there is a higher percentage of "crazy" Muslims than there are of any other religion. I don't believe that could possibly be the case.

It could be the case if the causes of craziness are in the world. Like Saudi Arabia's per capita household income falling from 28 grand to 7 grand in a decade's time--I think that made people angry, which is worse than being crazy. Then religion becomes a vehicle for anger.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
When you eradicate religion, something else will take its place. I think South Park (which is very critical of religion) demonstrated this quite well.

but hey, keep being a revisionist liar and deny basic historical facts such as the fact Communists tried to eradicate religion via force.


You are the one being dishonest. Communism tried to replace one religion with another. And South Park is your statement on the path of humanity?

Your religion is just as made up as Islam. You can cling to it if you want, but it's human made ignorance. When you can get past that you can start to see a path out. You do not need imaginary sky gods to live a moral life or to feel a part of something larger. And if we trust science it will have answers for some of the questions that religion created stories to answer.

That's the entire point, when you eliminate religion, the role it filled will invariably be filled by something else. Please tell me this is an act, you can't possibly be this dense.


If you use South Park as a guide for a future without religion calling anyone dense is laughable. If you believe in a sky god, even more so.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosque Attack
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:09 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Beyond that, there are no Christians who are widely accepted as learned religious scholars who support such beliefs.

Perhaps there would be if Christians had been subjected to the centuries of imperialist violence the US and Europe have launched on the Middle East. But I realize that brings actual materialism into the picture instead of the reductive and convenient motherlode of bad ideas rubbish.


Talk about not knowing your history. Muslims have been quite aggressive in colonizing others. This only ended because they fell behind in science, which has been a good thing for human progress.

Islam claims to be the ultimate solution to all human problems. The final revelation of the Abrahamic god. To claim that this belief has no influence on this group of people is laughable. Is the West to blame for their lack of scientific achievements as well?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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