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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:17 am 
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I'm a bad catholic in a lot of ways. I think priests should marry. I'm OK with the gays doing their thing. I'm pro-choice (within reason).

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:18 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm pro choice but to play devils advocate... in your example, I'm being suddenly dropped into that button situation. Outside of rape, pregnancy doesn't just randomly happen. It would have to be that I agreed to push the button and then I changed my mind. That changes the entire calculus.
Let's say you found that button lying on the street and picked it up.

I think it's a stretch to say that every time someone has sex that they are agreeing to have a baby. Of course it can happen but many people take major precautions to avoid it so it's pretty clear that was not the intent.

But, even with what you said, it still doesn't really change the concept that it wouldn't be murder to not press the button even if you for some reason chose to do something that ended up with you in charge of the button.


It still doesn't make sense. I'm not picking up a button and randomly realizing that I have to press it for 9 months or a person dies. I would have to consciously make the desicion to start pressing the button for 9 months.

Let's say that the analogy isn't correct.
Are you saying that every time you've done it you were choosing to try and have a kid?


No but it is always a possibility. No form of birth control is 100% effective.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:21 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm pro choice but to play devils advocate... in your example, I'm being suddenly dropped into that button situation. Outside of rape, pregnancy doesn't just randomly happen. It would have to be that I agreed to push the button and then I changed my mind. That changes the entire calculus.
Let's say you found that button lying on the street and picked it up.

I think it's a stretch to say that every time someone has sex that they are agreeing to have a baby. Of course it can happen but many people take major precautions to avoid it so it's pretty clear that was not the intent.

But, even with what you said, it still doesn't really change the concept that it wouldn't be murder to not press the button even if you for some reason chose to do something that ended up with you in charge of the button.


It's actually very difficult to get pregnant if you are taking precautions but I like the unavoidable outcome of your button pushing analogy so I won't debate it.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:27 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
No but it is always a possibility. No form of birth control is 100% effective.
That doesn't mean it was a choice to have a kid every time you do it though.

I can make the analogy more complicated by throwing in the concept that you get some sort of short term reward for picking it up with a very small chance of being the "button pusher" but I think you ultimately already understand the point the analogy is making which is that it is not necessarily murder.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:28 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm pro choice but to play devils advocate... in your example, I'm being suddenly dropped into that button situation. Outside of rape, pregnancy doesn't just randomly happen. It would have to be that I agreed to push the button and then I changed my mind. That changes the entire calculus.
Let's say you found that button lying on the street and picked it up.

I think it's a stretch to say that every time someone has sex that they are agreeing to have a baby. Of course it can happen but many people take major precautions to avoid it so it's pretty clear that was not the intent.

But, even with what you said, it still doesn't really change the concept that it wouldn't be murder to not press the button even if you for some reason chose to do something that ended up with you in charge of the button.


It's actually very difficult to get pregnant if you are taking precautions but I like the unavoidable outcome of your button pushing analogy so I won't debate it.
Agreed, and that is why it is hard to say that a person "chose" to have a kid and should have no control of their own body even 1 minute after conception.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:33 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm a bad catholic in a lot of ways. I think priests should marry. I'm OK with the gays doing their thing. I'm pro-choice (within reason).

But you're a good Catholic in a lot of ways: you've never raped children, you don't get haughty about which high school you went to, and you've never raped children.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:35 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm a bad catholic in a lot of ways. I think priests should marry. I'm OK with the gays doing their thing. I'm pro-choice (within reason).

But you're a good Catholic in a lot of ways: you've never raped children, you don't get haughty about which high school you went to, and you've never raped children.

:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:36 am 
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Probably ought to pay Norm MacDonald royalties for the pacing of that joke, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:42 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm a bad catholic in a lot of ways. I think priests should marry. I'm OK with the gays doing their thing. I'm pro-choice (within reason).

But you're a good Catholic in a lot of ways: you've never raped children, you don't get haughty about which high school you went to, and you've never raped children.


Some of us shouldn't apologize for taking pride in where we went to school. Nor should you. You have spoken here where you went to school.

Most Catholics don't rape children, but you already knew that.

And many Catholic priests are married.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:48 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm pro choice but to play devils advocate... in your example, I'm being suddenly dropped into that button situation. Outside of rape, pregnancy doesn't just randomly happen. It would have to be that I agreed to push the button and then I changed my mind. That changes the entire calculus.
Let's say you found that button lying on the street and picked it up.

I think it's a stretch to say that every time someone has sex that they are agreeing to have a baby. Of course it can happen but many people take major precautions to avoid it so it's pretty clear that was not the intent.

But, even with what you said, it still doesn't really change the concept that it wouldn't be murder to not press the button even if you for some reason chose to do something that ended up with you in charge of the button.


It still doesn't make sense. I'm not picking up a button and randomly realizing that I have to press it for 9 months or a person dies. I would have to consciously make the desicion to start pressing the button for 9 months.

Let's say that the analogy isn't correct.
Are you saying that every time you've done it you were choosing to try and have a kid?


On a very basic level, that is the expected outcome of sex or it's more technical name sexual reproduction.

Conception may not be an intended consequence but it certainly is a foreseeable consequence every single time.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:49 am 
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Seacrest wrote:

And many Catholic priests are married.

:?

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:53 am 
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What is the "Let's say..." meme?

If it's mocking Rick, I'd hate not to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:53 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
On a very basic level, that is the expected outcome of sex or it's more technical name sexual reproduction.

Conception may not be an intended consequence but it certainly is a foreseeable consequence every single time.
Didn't you say it was very difficult to get pregnant if you take precautions? To me, if you are actively attempting to avoid something, and the odds are very low that something will actually happen, you didn't "chose" to do that unintended consequence.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:54 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
What is the "Let's say..." meme?

If it's mocking Rick, I'd hate not to know.
I used a hypothetical in a thread twice in a row and I guess it became a thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:55 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

And many Catholic priests are married.

:?


Exceptions are admitted and there are over 200 married Catholic priests who converted from the Anglican Communion and Protestant faiths. In most Orthodox traditions and in some Eastern Catholic Churches men who are already married may be ordained priests, but priests may not marry after ordination.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
What is the "Let's say..." meme?

If it's mocking Rick, I'd hate not to know.
I used a hypothetical in a thread twice in a row and I guess it became a thing?


Let's say it did...

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:56 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

And many Catholic priests are married.

:?


I don't know about MANY. I think it's a very small percentage and I believe only allowed if you are transferring from a different demonination or something like that. If you an ordained priest, you ant get married.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:56 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
What is the "Let's say..." meme?

If it's mocking Rick, I'd hate not to know.
I used a hypothetical in a thread twice in a row and I guess it became a thing?


Let's say it did...


That's the essence.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:58 am 
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I gessing MANY means more then half????

or at least HALF?????

sure are experts will let us know!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:02 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
On a very basic level, that is the expected outcome of sex or it's more technical name sexual reproduction.

Conception may not be an intended consequence but it certainly is a foreseeable consequence every single time.
Didn't you say it was very difficult to get pregnant if you take precautions? To me, if you are actively attempting to avoid something, and the odds are very low that something will actually happen, you didn't "chose" to do that unintended consequence.


You never choose an unintended consequence.

But when you know or should have known of a possible outcome of an action, and not some far flung theoretical outcome mind you, you do have responsibility for the results.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:03 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
I gessing MANY means more then half????

or at least HALF?????

sure are experts will let us know!!!!!


We will leave that up to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:07 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
denisdman wrote:
RPB, my wife and I were raised Catholic, but we raised our children Lutheran. As such, we went through a long series of classes to become members of our Lutheran Church. The pastors truly believed in a literal interpretation of the bible, and they absolutely believed in the catechism of the Missouri synod, no exceptions. They preached it that way. They could tell you a story of why dinosaur bones did not indicate that the earth was more than 10,000 years old or why gay marriage should not be allowed.

They had a canned answer for everything.

As a guy with an undergrad in science, I have struggled with this stuff all my life. The Church used to believe that the earth was the center of the universe. So at some point, the evidence is so overwhelming that even the Church has to adjust. Probably time to rethink a few things.

No one has all the answers, at least here on earth.


You converted to a faith in which you didn't believe from the very start?

I'm not really white power man, I just came here for the fun


And I married a MO Synod Lutheran.

That is not what she was taught.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:08 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:09 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

And many Catholic priests are married.

:?


Exceptions are admitted and there are over 200 married Catholic priests who converted from the Anglican Communion and Protestant faiths. In most Orthodox traditions and in some Eastern Catholic Churches men who are already married may be ordained priests, but priests may not marry after ordination.


Neat

I did not know that. My girls are being raised Catholic like their mom...I was raised Lutheran, and had the crap Dennis posted about earlier pounded into my head as a youth. I never bought the bullshit, but they tried.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:12 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

And many Catholic priests are married.

:?


Exceptions are admitted and there are over 200 married Catholic priests who converted from the Anglican Communion and Protestant faiths. In most Orthodox traditions and in some Eastern Catholic Churches men who are already married may be ordained priests, but priests may not marry after ordination.


Neat

I did not know that.


There are different rites in the Catholic Church. The Eastern and Orthodox Rites have many married priests.

There is an Eastern Church in the town we currently live in, and also in the town we are planning to move to.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:20 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I gessing MANY means more then half????

or at least HALF?????

sure are experts will let us know!!!!!


We will leave that up to you.


Let's say we didn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:24 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I gessing MANY means more then half????

or at least HALF?????

sure are experts will let us know!!!!!


We will leave that up to you.


AND IT WILL REMAIN THAT WAY

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:27 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
denisdman wrote:
RPB, my wife and I were raised Catholic, but we raised our children Lutheran. As such, we went through a long series of classes to become members of our Lutheran Church. The pastors truly believed in a literal interpretation of the bible, and they absolutely believed in the catechism of the Missouri synod, no exceptions. They preached it that way. They could tell you a story of why dinosaur bones did not indicate that the earth was more than 10,000 years old or why gay marriage should not be allowed.

They had a canned answer for everything.

As a guy with an undergrad in science, I have struggled with this stuff all my life. The Church used to believe that the earth was the center of the universe. So at some point, the evidence is so overwhelming that even the Church has to adjust. Probably time to rethink a few things.

No one has all the answers, at least here on earth.


You converted to a faith in which you didn't believe from the very start?

I'm not really white power man, I just came here for the fun


We wanted to become members of said church and went through new members classes so we could understand what are children were being taught in school. It was a church with a preschool and elementary school. It was extremely informative as to the differences between Catholics (which I knew) and Lutherans. Just the sacrament discussion was eye opening. Or the wine becoming blood. Or how often you take communion. Etc. etc. If you want to call that process conversion, then fine. I looked at it as becoming a member of that congregation and informing myself on the Lutheran Faith.

I never bought into many of the core beliefs of Christianity. I do not believe in a literal interpretation of the holy book. I have faith that Jesus died for our sins, but I have an honest skepticism of even that most basic part of the Christianity. So I guess I don't have faith.

People act like they have all the answers. I read CS Lewis' Mere Christianity and several other books on the historical Jesus. I came to the conclusion that no one really knows, and those that say they do, are just doing it on the concept of Faith.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:38 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
denisdman wrote:
RPB, my wife and I were raised Catholic, but we raised our children Lutheran. As such, we went through a long series of classes to become members of our Lutheran Church. The pastors truly believed in a literal interpretation of the bible, and they absolutely believed in the catechism of the Missouri synod, no exceptions. They preached it that way. They could tell you a story of why dinosaur bones did not indicate that the earth was more than 10,000 years old or why gay marriage should not be allowed.

They had a canned answer for everything.

As a guy with an undergrad in science, I have struggled with this stuff all my life. The Church used to believe that the earth was the center of the universe. So at some point, the evidence is so overwhelming that even the Church has to adjust. Probably time to rethink a few things.

No one has all the answers, at least here on earth.


You converted to a faith in which you didn't believe from the very start?

I'm not really white power man, I just came here for the fun



And I married a MO Synod Lutheran.

That is not what she was taught.



You know a crap ton more than me on these subjects. I just know what I heard. I went through the classes and sat in the services. Right off their site:


"Of the Holy Scriptures
1.We teach that the Holy Scriptures differ from all other books in the world in that they are the Word of God. They are the Word of God because the holy men of God who wrote the Scriptures wrote only that which the Holy Ghost communicated to them by inspiration, 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21. We teach also that the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures is not a so-called "theological deduction," but that it is taught by direct statements of the Scriptures, 2 Tim. 3:16, John 10:35, Rom. 3:2; 1 Cor. 2:13. Since the Holy Scriptures are the Word of God, it goes without saying that they contain no errors or contradictions, but that they are in all their parts and words the infallible truth, also in those parts which treat of historical, geographical, and other secular matters, John 10:35."

https://www.lcms.org/about/beliefs/doctrine/brief-statement-of-lcms-doctrinal-position

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:54 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Most Catholics don't rape children


Put that on a bumper sticker and watch attendance at Sunday mass skyrocket!

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