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 Post subject: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:58 am 
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I understand certain people's beliefs preventing them from paying for all abortions. Id think an exception could be made in rape and incest cases though.

Michigan already has this in place I believe


http://www.newsweek.com/texas-votes-abo ... ium=Social

TEXAS ABORTION BILL MAKES WOMAN BUY ‘RAPE INSURANCE,’ CRITICS SAY
BY HARRIET SINCLAIR ON 8/10/17 AT 6:24 PM



Texas is moving toward a plan that could see women buy insurance coverage for abortions after a House vote derided by critics as “ridiculous and cruel.” The GOP-controlled House voted 95-51 Tuesday in favor of restricting abortion coverage in health insurance, under a rule that would ban coverage in private health insurance and force women to pay an additional supplement if they want coverage for the procedure.

If House Bill 214 is enacted, it will come into force at the beginning of December this year. It makes no allowances for women who have abortions after being victims of rape or incest, Reuters reported.

“Women and parents will be faced with the horrific decision of having to purchase ‘rape insurance’ to cover them if they are victimized,” Democratic Representative Chris Turner said in a statement. “This is not only ridiculous, but it is cruel,” he added.

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Some lawmakers who voted in favor of the bill claimed it was a financial decision rather than a moral or religious one. Their votes bring Texas a step closer to becoming the 11th state to make abortion coverage a supplement in private health insurance plans.

“It’s a question of economic freedom and freedom in general,” said the bill’s sponsor, GOP Representative John Smithee. Smithee said he believed supplemental coverage for abortion would cost women between $12 and $80 per year.

“This isn’t about who can get an abortion. It is about who is forced to pay for an abortion,” he said.

A number of women lawmakers challenged the measure.

Democratic Representative Ina Minjarez said the bill hurts women already struggling to get by. “In Texas, women earn less, are paid unequally and lack child care or paid family leave laws,” Minjarez said. “That’s why the economic impact of having a child is the No. 1 factor women consider when making this incredibly difficult and personal decision.”

Democratic Representative Donna Howard asked Smithee whether a young girl who was raped and became pregnant should have to pay for an abortion. “We’re discussing taking the life of the innocent little baby because of something the baby had nothing to do with,” Smithee responded.


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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:03 am 
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If you believe abortion is murder (not my belief BTW), then it is still murder even is a woman is raped or pregnant through incest. A so-called two wrongs don't make a right.

It's tough to have a middle position on this even though most Americans do. It is either murder or not. I don't believe it is up until a certain point in the pregnancy.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:05 am 
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Government should control all healthcare! What could go wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:12 am 
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denisdman wrote:
If you believe abortion is murder (not my belief BTW), then it is still murder even is a woman is raped or pregnant through incest. A so-called two wrongs don't make a right.

I understand that. There are some who call themselves Christians who would agree with the exception though


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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:12 am 
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denisdman wrote:
If you believe abortion is murder (not my belief BTW), then it is still murder even is a woman is raped or pregnant through incest. A so-called two wrongs don't make a right.

It's tough to have a middle position on this even though most Americans do. It is either murder or not. I don't believe it is up until a certain point in the pregnancy.
It's not necessarily murder. Here is an analogy.

Let's say that there was a button that had to be pressed once an hour by you and you alone. If it was not pushed once an hour by you then my head would explode and I would die. The key here is that no one else in the entire world could keep me alive. It is completely and totally on you and you alone. If you made the decision that this was not something you could do would it be murder to not press the button? If you had to have a medical procedure that put you under anesthesia for more than an hour that you needed would it be murder to need to not push that button?

This is why the concept of viability is so important and almost completely ignored by pro-life people. Hopefully one day medical science can bring the viability threshold down to such a low level that the discussion is unnecessary. Until then, it is difficult to tell someone to "push that button" or they are a murderer even one second after conception.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:15 am 
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Honestly, I know abortion rights activists love the faulty Roe V Wade decision, and one would think that would have ended the discussion. I mean it was a Supreme Court verdict after all. But if that Court had rightly ruled that this is not a U.S. Constitutional matter and simply said each state could do it s own thing, I bet the issue would have simmered down much faster. All the Bible hugging states would have banned it, and places like CA, IL, and MA would have had expansive rules. It is basically a community standard approach much like pornography, gambling, or liquor sales.

Instead, we have the Red states trying to chip away at the original decision, and each Supreme Court nominee is framed as for or against abortion rights with the left worrying that the Court will eventually reverse it.

But who knows?

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:19 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If you believe abortion is murder (not my belief BTW), then it is still murder even is a woman is raped or pregnant through incest. A so-called two wrongs don't make a right.

I understand that. There are some who call themselves Christians who would agree with the exception though


There are people that call themselves Christians that rape little boys.....

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:30 am 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If you believe abortion is murder (not my belief BTW), then it is still murder even is a woman is raped or pregnant through incest. A so-called two wrongs don't make a right.

I understand that. There are some who call themselves Christians who would agree with the exception though


There are people that call themselves Christians that rape little boys.....

Yea, well that's extreme but even though I was raised Catholic, Im not sure I know the answer to the question: Does one have to believe in every tenet of Christianity to be a "True Christian"?


I mean lots of Christians think Priests should be able to marry.


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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:33 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If you believe abortion is murder (not my belief BTW), then it is still murder even is a woman is raped or pregnant through incest. A so-called two wrongs don't make a right.

It's tough to have a middle position on this even though most Americans do. It is either murder or not. I don't believe it is up until a certain point in the pregnancy.
It's not necessarily murder. Here is an analogy.

Let's say that there was a button that had to be pressed once an hour by you and you alone. If it was not pushed once an hour by you then my head would explode and I would die. The key here is that no one else in the entire world could keep me alive. It is completely and totally on you and you alone. If you made the decision that this was not something you could do would it be murder to not press the button? If you had to have a medical procedure that put you under anesthesia for more than an hour that you needed would it be murder to need to not push that button?

This is why the concept of viability is so important and almost completely ignored by pro-life people. Hopefully one day medical science can bring the viability threshold down to such a low level that the discussion is unnecessary. Until then, it is difficult to tell someone to "push that button" or they are a murderer even one second after conception.


I'm pro choice but to play devils advocate... in your example, I'm being suddenly dropped into that button situation. Outside of rape, pregnancy doesn't just randomly happen. It would have to be that I agreed to push the button and then I changed my mind. That changes the entire calculus.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:35 am 
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Eastern Orthodox priests aren't disallowed from marrying.


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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:36 am 
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RPB, my wife and I were raised Catholic, but we raised our children Lutheran. As such, we went through a long series of classes to become members of our Lutheran Church. The pastors truly believed in a literal interpretation of the bible, and they absolutely believed in the catechism of the Missouri synod, no exceptions. They preached it that way. They could tell you a story of why dinosaur bones did not indicate that the earth was more than 10,000 years old or why gay marriage should not be allowed.

They had a canned answer for everything.

As a guy with an undergrad in science, I have struggled with this stuff all my life. The Church used to believe that the earth was the center of the universe. So at some point, the evidence is so overwhelming that even the Church has to adjust. Probably time to rethink a few things.

No one has all the answers, at least here on earth.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:38 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm pro choice but to play devils advocate... in your example, I'm being suddenly dropped into that button situation. Outside of rape, pregnancy doesn't just randomly happen. It would have to be that I agreed to push the button and then I changed my mind. That changes the entire calculus.
Let's say you found that button lying on the street and picked it up.

I think it's a stretch to say that every time someone has sex that they are agreeing to have a baby. Of course it can happen but many people take major precautions to avoid it so it's pretty clear that was not the intent.

But, even with what you said, it still doesn't really change the concept that it wouldn't be murder to not press the button even if you for some reason chose to do something that ended up with you in charge of the button.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:42 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Eastern Orthodox priests aren't disallowed from marrying.


One of my favorite historical books was about the Eastern Roman Empire and its split from Rome. Basically the Byzantine Empire.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:44 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Eastern Orthodox priests aren't disallowed from marrying.

aren't disallowed?

You're better than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:46 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Eastern Orthodox priests aren't disallowed from marrying.

aren't disallowed?

You're better than that.

Catholic priests are allowed to marry? I thought rules said no. Not familiar with that side of Christianity.


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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:47 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Eastern Orthodox priests aren't disallowed from marrying.

aren't disallowed?

You're better than that.

Catholic priests are allowed to marry? I thought rules said no. Not familiar with that side of Christianity.

Correct, was referring to...

Allowed.

No reason for the double negative.


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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:48 am 
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Seacrest will be along shortly to tell all of us how we should feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:51 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's say


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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:52 am 
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Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's say
I'm starting to know how Frank felt with the Flapjacks joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's say
I'm starting to know how Frank felt with the Flapjacks joke.


You be you Rick. It's what makes you a valuable poster, a worthy adversary, and an often frustrating person to follow. It's your brand.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:00 am 
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I used to be pro-life, (this might shock you but as a high schooler I was a neo-con Bush loving Republican)

Oh how things have changed and yes this is an awful law. Texas has a state government that does some great things with their pro-business agenda, and then they ruin it with their awful social conservative agenda/anti-civil liberties agenda.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:01 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's say that there was a button that had to be pressed once an hour by you and you alone. If it was not pushed once an hour by you then my head would explode and I would die.


Best episode of Lost ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:01 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's say that there was a button that had to be pressed once an hour by you and you alone. If it was not pushed once an hour by you then my head would explode and I would die.


Best episode of Lost ever.
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:03 am 
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denisdman wrote:
RPB, my wife and I were raised Catholic, but we raised our children Lutheran. As such, we went through a long series of classes to become members of our Lutheran Church. The pastors truly believed in a literal interpretation of the bible, and they absolutely believed in the catechism of the Missouri synod, no exceptions.

The Evangelical Lutherans (don't let the name throw you, they're as mainline protty as it gets) are much more chill in my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:04 am 
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How about we left the free market decide what's covered and what isn't. Telling insurers they can't cover something is just bullshit. Insurers should be able to allow their clients to buy the coverage they feel they need. If some Christian doesn't want to pay for abortions to be covered, then let them buy into a pool that doesn't include them. Everyone else can buy into a normal policy, which would be offered by most insurers.

Yes, abortion is the law of the land and I hate these stupid appeal to the base efforts to try to subvert established law

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:05 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
How about we left the free market decide what's covered and what isn't.

Well, the guy who tried to fuck high school girls may have ruined Dr. Evil for all of us forever, but nevertheless, HOW ABOUT NO

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:14 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm pro choice but to play devils advocate... in your example, I'm being suddenly dropped into that button situation. Outside of rape, pregnancy doesn't just randomly happen. It would have to be that I agreed to push the button and then I changed my mind. That changes the entire calculus.
Let's say you found that button lying on the street and picked it up.

I think it's a stretch to say that every time someone has sex that they are agreeing to have a baby. Of course it can happen but many people take major precautions to avoid it so it's pretty clear that was not the intent.

But, even with what you said, it still doesn't really change the concept that it wouldn't be murder to not press the button even if you for some reason chose to do something that ended up with you in charge of the button.


It still doesn't make sense. I'm not picking up a button and randomly realizing that I have to press it for 9 months or a person dies. I would have to consciously make the desicion to start pressing the button for 9 months.

Let's say that the analogy isn't correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:15 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's say that there was a button that had to be pressed once an hour by you and you alone. If it was not pushed once an hour by you then my head would explode and I would die.


Best episode of Lost ever.


:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:15 am 
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denisdman wrote:
RPB, my wife and I were raised Catholic, but we raised our children Lutheran. As such, we went through a long series of classes to become members of our Lutheran Church. The pastors truly believed in a literal interpretation of the bible, and they absolutely believed in the catechism of the Missouri synod, no exceptions. They preached it that way. They could tell you a story of why dinosaur bones did not indicate that the earth was more than 10,000 years old or why gay marriage should not be allowed.

They had a canned answer for everything.

As a guy with an undergrad in science, I have struggled with this stuff all my life. The Church used to believe that the earth was the center of the universe. So at some point, the evidence is so overwhelming that even the Church has to adjust. Probably time to rethink a few things.

No one has all the answers, at least here on earth.


You converted to a faith in which you didn't believe from the very start?

I'm not really white power man, I just came here for the fun

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 Post subject: Re: Rape Insurance
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:16 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm pro choice but to play devils advocate... in your example, I'm being suddenly dropped into that button situation. Outside of rape, pregnancy doesn't just randomly happen. It would have to be that I agreed to push the button and then I changed my mind. That changes the entire calculus.
Let's say you found that button lying on the street and picked it up.

I think it's a stretch to say that every time someone has sex that they are agreeing to have a baby. Of course it can happen but many people take major precautions to avoid it so it's pretty clear that was not the intent.

But, even with what you said, it still doesn't really change the concept that it wouldn't be murder to not press the button even if you for some reason chose to do something that ended up with you in charge of the button.


It still doesn't make sense. I'm not picking up a button and randomly realizing that I have to press it for 9 months or a person dies. I would have to consciously make the desicion to start pressing the button for 9 months.

Let's say that the analogy isn't correct.
Are you saying that every time you've done it you were choosing to try and have a kid?

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