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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:20 pm 
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This is a helluva article on the Current State of American Journalism.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... sm/534195/

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:44 pm 
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"Now each assignment is subjected to a cost-benefit analysis—will the article earn enough traffic to justify the investment?"


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:49 pm 
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tommy wrote:
"Now each assignment is subjected to a cost-benefit analysis—will the article earn enough traffic to justify the investment?"


Finally. Journalism is getting back to its roots.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:55 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
tommy wrote:
"Now each assignment is subjected to a cost-benefit analysis—will the article earn enough traffic to justify the investment?"


Finally. Journalism is getting back to its roots.

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I think journalistic ethics coalesced just after that . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:25 am 
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The term "fake news" has obviously come to be associated with Donald Trump, but the first person I ever heard use the phrase was Hillary Clinton as she whined about how unfairly she was being treated during the campaign. Trump took her usage, flipped it and ran with it to the point where "fake news" is now a meme/joke.

This stood out in that article: "Facebook will decide that its users prefer video to words, or ideologically pleasing propaganda to more-objective accounts of events—and so it will de-emphasize the written word or hard news in its users’ feeds."

I'm fairly certain the "ideologically pleasing propaganda", i.e. "fake news", being pushed by these tech firms isn't pro-Trump, pro-Republican, or pro-Conservatism.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:28 am 
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Also, maybe Boilermaker Rick will begin to understand what a disaster the death of the newspaper actually is.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:01 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The term "fake news" has obviously come to be associated with Donald Trump, but the first person I ever heard use the phrase was Hillary Clinton as she whined about how unfairly she was being treated during the campaign. Trump took her usage, flipped it and ran with it to the point where "fake news" is now a meme/joke.

This stood out in that article: "Facebook will decide that its users prefer video to words, or ideologically pleasing propaganda to more-objective accounts of events—and so it will de-emphasize the written word or hard news in its users’ feeds."

I'm fairly certain the "ideologically pleasing propaganda", i.e. "fake news", being pushed by these tech firms isn't pro-Trump, pro-Republican, or pro-Conservatism.



This isn't about the "right" or the "left". It's not an article about which side is favored the most. That wasn't what the crux of the article was about.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:02 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Also, maybe Boilermaker Rick will begin to understand what a disaster the death of the newspaper actually is.

This was happening for a long time.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:07 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The term "fake news" has obviously come to be associated with Donald Trump, but the first person I ever heard use the phrase was Hillary Clinton as she whined about how unfairly she was being treated during the campaign. Trump took her usage, flipped it and ran with it to the point where "fake news" is now a meme/joke.

This stood out in that article: "Facebook will decide that its users prefer video to words, or ideologically pleasing propaganda to more-objective accounts of events—and so it will de-emphasize the written word or hard news in its users’ feeds."

I'm fairly certain the "ideologically pleasing propaganda", i.e. "fake news", being pushed by these tech firms isn't pro-Trump, pro-Republican, or pro-Conservatism.

It will not be pro American either. The ideological propaganda will be anti American, like CNN and all the rest and of course, BHO. Gawd, we may never fully recover from the damage done by Obama.


"is it safe"--BHO
"no"--Jimmy Reardon

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:30 am 
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ugh, that news article was wayyy too long, is there a 30 second video recap you can share

-millennials


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:05 am 
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Still reading and will have more thoughts, but this excerpt really struck me.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:08 am 
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So this is basically a long winded way to say that people need to write about things people want to read?

I'm sure people in the old days who wrote for newspapers never cared that the readers would actually be interested in the story.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:12 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So this is basically a long winded way to say that people need to write about things people want to read?

I'm sure people in the old days who wrote for newspapers never cared that the readers would actually be interested in the story.

Yeah they didn't have PAPErmetrics for idiots to regurgitate numbers back then .

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:14 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So this is basically a long winded way to say that people need to write about things people want to read?

I'm sure people in the old days who wrote for newspapers never cared that the readers would actually be interested in the story.



:lol: Leave it to Rick to defend yellow journalism.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:17 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So this is basically a long winded way to say that people need to write about things people want to read?

I'm sure people in the old days who wrote for newspapers never cared that the readers would actually be interested in the story.



:lol: Leave it to Rick to defend yellow journalism.
I'm pretty sure that term existed before my generation stopped reading newspapers.

I'm not defending it. It's just dumb to think that some time around 2005 that suddenly it became a thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:21 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So this is basically a long winded way to say that people need to write about things people want to read?

I'm sure people in the old days who wrote for newspapers never cared that the readers would actually be interested in the story.



:lol: Leave it to Rick to defend yellow journalism.
I'm pretty sure that term existed before my generation stopped reading newspapers.

I'm not defending it. It's just dumb to think that some time around 2005 that suddenly it became a thing.



He is romanticizing old time journalism a bit but he isn't overhyping the way News is being provided today. More than anything this article is providing information on how News business is a for profit industry. Whether it has always been that or not is beside the point. It's that way now and the internet is shaping the way that News is being facilitated.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:25 am 
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Clicks would rain down upon us if only we could get over ourselves and write about the same outrage as everyone else. Everyone else was doing this because it worked. We needed things to work.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

When I wrote for SB Nation -- part of Vox Media -- we were coached on sensationalizing headlines for more clicks. Like the Atlantic article explains, "Tiger Woods Switches to Nike Golf" got far fewer clicks than "Tiger Woods Makes Shocking Choice." You can imagine some of the headlines during his sex scandal, for example.

The primary focus of the news isn't to inform the public any more. It's to get more clicks faster than the guy down the street.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:28 am 
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long time guy wrote:
He is romanticizing old time journalism a bit but he isn't overhyping the way News is being provided today. More than anything this article is providing information on how News business is a for profit industry. Whether it has always been that or not is beside the point. It's that way now and the internet is shaping the way that News is being facilitated.
News has been big business my whole life. "RAZORBLADES IN CANDY, tune in at 10 to hear more!"-style news was around all the time when I was a kid.

This is just more whining about the good old days. We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:28 am 
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JORR blaming the little people for corporate decisions to change what is considered news.

Now I've seen everything.

JOBS!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:30 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Quote:
Clicks would rain down upon us if only we could get over ourselves and write about the same outrage as everyone else. Everyone else was doing this because it worked. We needed things to work.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

When I wrote for SB Nation -- part of Vox Media -- we were coached on sensationalizing headlines for more clicks. Like the Atlantic article explains, "Tiger Woods Switches to Nike Golf" got far fewer clicks than "Tiger Woods Makes Shocking Choice." You can imagine some of the headlines during his sex scandal, for example.

The primary focus of the news isn't to inform the public any more. It's to get more clicks faster than the guy down the street.


What about the proliferation of celebrity then and now articles that permeate the internet these days? "What this celebrity looks like today will shock you". Takes you 50-100 clicks to get to the Celebrity in the headline.

Instead of doing a simple then and now it's important for you to be shocked by their appearance.

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Last edited by long time guy on Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:31 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.


Which is exactly the problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:32 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Quote:
Clicks would rain down upon us if only we could get over ourselves and write about the same outrage as everyone else. Everyone else was doing this because it worked. We needed things to work.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

When I wrote for SB Nation -- part of Vox Media -- we were coached on sensationalizing headlines for more clicks. Like the Atlantic article explains, "Tiger Woods Switches to Nike Golf" got far fewer clicks than "Tiger Woods Makes Shocking Choice." You can imagine some of the headlines during his sex scandal, for example.

The primary focus of the news isn't to inform the public any more. It's to get more clicks faster than the guy down the street.


What about the proliferation of celebrity then and now articles that permeate the internet these days? "What this celebrity looks like today will shock you". Takes you 50-100 clicks to get to the Celebrity in the headline.

Instead of doing a simple then and now it's important for you to be shocked by their appearance.


Sure, but does this really confuse you as to whether it is news or fodder?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:33 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.


Which is exactly the problem.
That's a good thing. Nothing is stopping you from being more informed than a newspaper reader from previous decades.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:34 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He is romanticizing old time journalism a bit but he isn't overhyping the way News is being provided today. More than anything this article is providing information on how News business is a for profit industry. Whether it has always been that or not is beside the point. It's that way now and the internet is shaping the way that News is being facilitated.
News has been big business my whole life. "RAZORBLADES IN CANDY, tune in at 10 to hear more!"-style news was around all the time when I was a kid.

This is just more whining about the good old days. We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.



Access to News doesn't mean that what you're being provided with is News. A lot of News today is nothing more than filler.

A President's Twitter account is the most talked about aspect of his Presidency.

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Last edited by long time guy on Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 am 
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Like music, news always gets better!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.


Which is exactly the problem.
That's a good thing. Nothing is stopping you from being more informed than a newspaper reader from previous decades.


To a point, yes. But as the article states (and to which I agree) nearly every major online news source is publishing with a hive-mind. Google's search results algorithm is a major root cause to this. Type in "Donald Trump tweets..." and see how many articles come up with those words in the title.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:37 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He is romanticizing old time journalism a bit but he isn't overhyping the way News is being provided today. More than anything this article is providing information on how News business is a for profit industry. Whether it has always been that or not is beside the point. It's that way now and the internet is shaping the way that News is being facilitated.
News has been big business my whole life. "RAZORBLADES IN CANDY, tune in at 10 to hear more!"-style news was around all the time when I was a kid.

This is just more whining about the good old days. We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.



Access to News doesn't mean that what you're being provided with is News. A lot of News today is nothing more than filler.
A lot of newspapers were ads and filler. I'm not sure that comics, advice columns, and classified sections were "news" either.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:37 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.


Which is exactly the problem.


It's not the problem. The problem is corporations have decided news is a for-profit business and only cared about making money.

Reagan Capitalism killed the news.

INFRASTRUCTURE!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:39 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He is romanticizing old time journalism a bit but he isn't overhyping the way News is being provided today. More than anything this article is providing information on how News business is a for profit industry. Whether it has always been that or not is beside the point. It's that way now and the internet is shaping the way that News is being facilitated.
News has been big business my whole life. "RAZORBLADES IN CANDY, tune in at 10 to hear more!"-style news was around all the time when I was a kid.

This is just more whining about the good old days. We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.



Access to News doesn't mean that what you're being provided with is News. A lot of News today is nothing more than filler.
A lot of newspapers were ads and filler. I'm not sure that comics, advice columns, and classified sections were "news" either.


Sure but you knew what those were.

Now "news" is usually nothing but opinion pieces.

There is still excellent journalism being done. It's on us as consumers to seek it out and not wait to be spoon-fed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:39 am 
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Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
We have access to more news than any time in history and we don't have to wait until the next day to see if that news was deemed worthy.


Which is exactly the problem.
That's a good thing. Nothing is stopping you from being more informed than a newspaper reader from previous decades.


To a point, yes. But as the article states (and to which I agree) nearly every major online news source is publishing with a hive-mind. Google's search results algorithm is a major root cause to this. Type in "Donald Trump tweets..." and see how many articles come up with those words in the title.
So? His use of twitter is one of the biggest things of his Presidency. It's actually quite remarkable how he uses it and how dumb he is on it.

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