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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:59 am 
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Noted asshat Chuck Grassley actually told the truth. He said that eliminating the estate tax recognizes investors over the spenders who would just waste their money on booze,women and movies

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:49 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:55 pm 
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yeah well pfft he's not even a real Democrat. Let's talk more Russia!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:37 am 
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https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/tax-plan-glitches-mistakes-republicans-208049

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Republicans’ tax-rewrite plans are riddled with bugs, loopholes and other potential problems that could plague lawmakers long after their legislation is signed into law.

Some of the provisions could be easily gamed, tax lawyers say. Their plans to cut taxes on “pass-through” businesses in particular could open broad avenues for tax avoidance.

Others would have unintended results, like a last-minute decision by the Senate to keep the alternative minimum tax, which was designed to make sure wealthy people and corporations don't escape taxes altogether. For many businesses, that would nullify the value of a hugely popular break for research and development expenses.

Some provisions are so vaguely written they leave experts scratching their heads, like a proposal to begin taxing the investment earnings of rich private universities’ endowments. The legislation doesn’t explain what’s considered an endowment, and some colleges have more than 1,000 accounts.

In many cases, Republicans are giving taxpayers little time to adjust to sometimes major changes in policy. An entirely new international tax regime, one experts are still trying to parse, would go into effect Jan. 1, only days after lawmakers hope to push the plan through Congress.

“The more you read, the more you go, ‘Holy crap, what’s this?'” said Greg Jenner, a former top tax official in George W. Bush’s Treasury Department. “We will be dealing with unintended consequences for months to come because the bill is moving too fast.”

Some liken it to when Democrats rushed the Affordable Care Act through Congress and ended up with scads of legislative snafus. Republicans have not allowed Democrats to fix the health care law, and some say the GOP can expect payback when it tries to address problems with its tax plan.

House Ways and Means Chairman Kevin Brady (R-Texas) said he’s aware of problems, and that lawmakers aim to address them as part of negotiations over a final plan.

“We’ve gotten really good feedback on how best to fine-tune it,” he said. “It’s really showing us where we need to land, and the issues we need to improve in conference.”

Part of writing any tax legislation, tax veterans say, is trying to anticipate how clever tax lawyers might game a proposal, how seemingly disparate sections of the code might interact in unexpected ways and how to address taxpayers’ sometimes unusual circumstances.

It’s not possible for lawmakers to foresee every eventuality, and it’s hardly unusual for there to be mistakes Congress later corrects.

What is unusual is the sheer scope of the legislation now before lawmakers, and the speed with which it’s moving through Congress. Republicans are trying to muscle the plan through the Capitol before special interest groups can mobilize opposition.

The House passed its draft of the proposal, from introduction to final vote, in two weeks flat. The normally balky Senate needed barely three weeks to move its plan.

By comparison, it took Democrats more than six months to pass the Affordable Care Act.

That breakneck pace means there hasn’t been much time for feedback from experts outside the Capitol.

“You can never catch all the implications,” said Jenner. “That problem is magnified exponentially when you’re rushing through like this.”

But many of the issues are complicated, and lawmakers are in a hurry.

Trump wants negotiators to wrap up their work even before a Dec. 22 deadline they’ve set for themselves. “We want it to proceed as quickly as possible,” Marc Short, the administration’s congressional liaison, said Tuesday.

What’s more, some of the fixes could be expensive, potentially throwing lawmakers’ budget numbers out of whack.

Republicans may try to pass subsequent legislation to address problems, but that may not have the ”reconciliation” protections — a set of complex rules in the Senate that allow them to shut off Democratic filibusters — on which they’re now relying to move their plan through the chamber. That would enable Democrats to block any fixes.

Lawmakers could also punt some of the issues to Treasury to figure out with government regulations. But that’s typically a slow process, and most of the Republican plan would take effect Jan. 1.

Republicans are well aware of the corporate AMT problem and appear likely to address it in conference, with House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) demanding a fix.

“That should be eliminated, for sure,” he told CNBC on Monday.

But experts say there are plenty of other issues.

Their plans to cut taxes on pass-through businesses would open a whole new palette of complicated tax-avoidance techniques allowing the well-to-do to slash their taxes, lawyers say.

People will be tempted to recharacterize their income in order to take advantage of a 23 percent deduction for pass-throughs offered by the Senate. For someone making $500,000, that would save them $30,000.

“This is an entirely new concept and, from a tax lawyer’s perspective, it’s like a new paint box,” said David Miller, a tax partner at Proskauer Rose LLP. “We have a new tool to play with.”

At the same time, an apparent bid by the Senate to head off tax-avoidance moves involving business losses would dissuade people in certain circumstances from starting companies — though one of the main purposes of the legislation is to improve the business environment, said Don Susswein, a principal at the tax and accounting firm RSM.

“That’s a good example of a provision that was undoubtedly well-intentioned, trying to solve a very narrow problem, but maybe they didn’t have the time to really get it right,” he said. “Hopefully, it will be closely examined in conference.”

Republicans themselves acknowledge one glitch. In a report accompanying their legislation, House Republicans essentially say they screwed up the details of how a one-time tax on multinational companies’ offshore profits would work and plan to fix it.

“The committee is aware that certain aspects of this section require additional attention,” the report says, and will revise the plan to avoid “inappropriate” results.

Other issues arise from the fact that lawmakers are mostly skipping the custom of having a transitional period between current tax rules and the new ones, in order to give the public time to adjust to the changes.

The House bill also includes a whole new way of taxing multinational corporations — aside from the one-time tax — that lawmakers have hardly debated, and which experts are still trying to understand.

“It’s crazy,” said one Republican lobbyist. “I don’t think anyone could explain it, let alone comply with it” by Jan. 1.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Democrats asking for Al Groper Franken to step down. Republicans bending over for Roy Da School Dance Pedophile because they need his vote. Whatever happened to the Party of Values?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:44 pm 
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You see, Al is stepping down because he's guilty and those women are telling the truth. Moore is staying in the race because he's innocent and those women are lying.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Throwing the AMT back in at the last minute is a pretty huge change for big business.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:21 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
You see, Al is stepping down because he's guilty and those women are telling the truth. Moore is staying in the race because he's innocent and those women are lying.


Al is stepping down because he will be replaced by a Dem. If Minnesota had a Republican governor he is not going anywhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:24 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
You see, Al is stepping down because he's guilty and those women are telling the truth. Moore is staying in the race because he's innocent and those women are lying.


Al is stepping down because he will be replaced by a Dem. If Minnesota had a Republican governor he is not going anywhere.

This is how I see the Roy Moore election playing out. Moore will obviously win. He will then resign after being seated, and the Alabama governor will just appoint some other lackey.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:34 pm 
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Moore doesn't seem like the retiring type.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:34 pm 
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you need 2/3 majority to kick out a senate member. The GOP just should have said from the get go "we want him to drop out but we can't make him. We also don't want to lose that seat. Vote for the despicable man and we will unite with the Dems to vote him out and run a special election or appoint a new person."

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:36 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
you need 2/3 majority to kick out a senate member. The GOP just should have said from the get go "we want him to drop out but we can't make him. We also don't want to lose that seat. Vote for the despicable man and we will unite with the Dems to vote him out and run a special election or appoint a new person."

They don't even need a special election. The governor can appoint his replacement.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
you need 2/3 majority to kick out a senate member. The GOP just should have said from the get go "we want him to drop out but we can't make him. We also don't want to lose that seat. Vote for the despicable man and we will unite with the Dems to vote him out and run a special election or appoint a new person."

They don't even need a special election. The governor can appoint his replacement.


Why are they having one now?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:30 am 
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I heard a person on the street report from Alabama where one of the local gentry equated the Roy Moore issue with the state's rights argument that started the civil war

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:42 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I heard a person on the street report from Alabama where one of the local gentry equated the Roy Moore issue with the state's rights argument that started the civil war


There's a lot in that sentence that's taking me awhile to unpack.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:24 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
you need 2/3 majority to kick out a senate member. The GOP just should have said from the get go "we want him to drop out but we can't make him. We also don't want to lose that seat. Vote for the despicable man and we will unite with the Dems to vote him out and run a special election or appoint a new person."

They don't even need a special election. The governor can appoint his replacement.


Why are they having one now?

This isn't exactly a "special election" to fill an open seat. Luther Strange was appointed to fill Jeff Sessions' senate seat earlier this year. Roy Moore challenged Strange in the primary and won, which brings us to today's matchup. I think the timing is just a little different because of how close each election would be to each other. The primary was pushed to the summer of 2017 because it gave Strange the opportunity to be sworn in and maybe actually do something over the course of about 6 months, and the actual election was moved to next week.

So Moore can win the election, be sworn in, and immediately resign or be expelled with a 2/3's vote.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:58 am 
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http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/distributional-analysis-conference-agreement-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/full
Quote:
The Tax Policy Center has released distributional estimates of the conference agreement for the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act as filed on December 15, 2017. We find the bill would reduce taxes on average for all income groups in both 2018 and 2025. In general, higher income households receive larger average tax cuts as a percentage of after-tax income, with the largest cuts as a share of income going to taxpayers in the 95th to 99th percentiles of the income distribution. On average, in 2027 taxes would change little for lower- and middle-income groups and decrease for higher-income groups. Compared to current law, 5 percent of taxpayers would pay more tax in 2018, 9 percent in 2025, and 53 percent in 2027.

TPC is supposedly nonpartisan but I think in reality they lean a little left.

TPC's analysis judges the tax bill at face value. The bill is pretty scummy in that the individual cuts expire in 2025 as a way to shoehorn under budget rules. It's all a political stunt seeing as once 2025 arrives the cries will be Democrats are for raising taxes if they do not vote to extend the cuts.

The bill is a very shitty attempt at reform. It's simply transformed into a cut with MANY carveouts still in place.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Passed by House. Senate very likely to approve tonight.

What a Christmas gift to the donor class and (denisdman :P)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:44 pm 
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This is a big fucking deal.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:50 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
This is a big fucking deal.

I know. I'm gonna save like $100 bucks a year. Yippee. MAGA!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Passed by House. Senate very likely to approve tonight.

What a Christmas gift to the donor class and (denisdman :P)



Hah, as I have said many times before, it won't be a cut for me. But the revised deal will be nice in that the AMT is out of play, so I only have to do my return once. In the aggregate, this is not much of a personal income tax cut, and thus the articles that only 10% of the cut is for the middle class. That is because only 20% of the entire cut is for personal taxes.

The deal is a total rework of the corporate code with a lower tax rate and a territorial system. The corporate changes will be looked back at as revolutionary. It is a huge win for American business competitiveness against the rest of the world.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:05 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Passed by House. Senate very likely to approve tonight.

What a Christmas gift to the donor class and (denisdman :P)



Hah, as I have said many times before, it won't be a cut for me. But the revised deal will be nice in that the AMT is out of play, so I only have to do my return once. In the aggregate, this is not much of a personal income tax cut, and thus the articles that only 10% of the cut is for the middle class. That is because only 20% of the entire cut is for personal taxes.

The deal is a total rework of the corporate code with a lower tax rate and a territorial system. The corporate changes will be looked back at as revolutionary. It is a huge win for American business competitiveness against the rest of the world.

A race to the bottom.

The rework of the corporate side is an end-around gift to the upper-crust. US Corporations are already swimming in capital they don't know what to do with. MANY leaders have said the windfall from tax cuts will be used for increased dividends and share repurchases. The very same people who are deriving most of the benefits on the personal income tax "reform" get an added bonus of drastic rise in passive income. What a time to be alive.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:15 pm 
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1) Share repurchases- The company buys the shares at the exact price I could sell my shares today. It is just a tax efficient way to return money to shareholders that the company does not need. That money then gets recycled to companies that do need it.

2) Dividends- God I love dividend checks. But keep in mind that when ABC company pays a dividend, the share price goes down by that amount. There is no net gain to shareholders. It is just another way to return money to shareholders.

The alternative to repurchases and dividends is companies camping on money they don't need. In a fluid capital environment, excess cash is returned to investors who in turn deploy the money to parts of the economy that need it.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:20 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
1) Share repurchases- The company buys the shares at the exact price I could sell my shares today. It is just a tax efficient way to return money to shareholders that the company does not need. That money then gets recycled to companies that do need it.

2) Dividends- God I love dividend checks. But keep in mind that when ABC company pays a dividend, the share price goes down by that amount. There is no net gain to shareholders. It is just another way to return money to shareholders.

The alternative to repurchases and dividends is companies camping on money they don't need. In a fluid capital environment, excess cash is returned to investors who in turn deploy the money to parts of the economy that need it.

And what part of the economy would that be? We're in year 9 of an expansion? Congress is adding the the overheating. Burning through a bullet once the crash comes. What's Congress' solution going to be? Another tax cut stimulus?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Capital and R&D spending in the U.S. continues to be focused on medical innovations, alternative energy, all manner of SaS (software as a service), materials science, fintech. At least those are the areas where we see significant capital flowing.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:42 pm 
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I don’t dare use the TD term but some of that dividend and repurchase money finds its way to regular guys 401k.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:42 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
1) Share repurchases- The company buys the shares at the exact price I could sell my shares today. It is just a tax efficient way to return money to shareholders that the company does not need. That money then gets recycled to companies that do need it.

Exactly! The tax cut is providing a windfall of excess capital that firms do not need! They have no wanting projecting screaming for investment at the moment. I have no idea why Congress is using fiscal policy at this moment in the business cycle. It's a piece of legislation that's not needed at the moment.

denisdman wrote:
2) Dividends- God I love dividend checks. But keep in mind that when ABC company pays a dividend, the share price goes down by that amount. There is no net gain to shareholders. It is just another way to return money to shareholders.

The money funding the dividend was allocated to Uncle Sam. Instead, it's being routed to support Paris Hilton's coke habit. I dunno, I think the money could've been allocated directly into normal people's pocket via a deeper personal income tax cut.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:44 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I don’t dare use the TD term but some of that dividend and repurchase money finds its way to regular guys 401k.

I prefer the funds to be directly given to me via a personal tax cut.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I don’t dare use the TD term but some of that dividend and repurchase money finds its way to regular guys 401k.

I prefer the funds to be directly given to me via a personal tax cut.

PittMike is praying that trickle down will work.

SAD

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I don’t dare use the TD term but some of that dividend and repurchase money finds its way to regular guys 401k.

I prefer the funds to be directly given to me via a personal tax cut.

PittMike is praying that trickle down will work.

SAD


I’m not praying for anything. Sorry you’re poor.

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