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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?

Apparently you want to keep steamrolled.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:29 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?

Apparently you want to keep steamrolled.


Naw, bitch. I was born this way.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Flat Stanley wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?

Apparently you want to keep steamrolled.


Naw, bitch. I was born this way.


Whoever owns this mult must be 100 years old.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

Quote:
Heck, even wars demonstrate this. We have gone from requiring a declaration of war (as mandated in the Constitution) to the War Powers Act where the President can start bombing a place without the consent of Congress and keep war going for months. Even when Congress doesn't vote on it, they don't have the courage to stop it.



MANY that frequently post on here have no problem with this particular practice either. In spite of said practice they continue to fallaciously promote the idea that the U.S. is somehow a victim of foreign/terrorist aggression.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:36 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Flat Stanley wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?

Apparently you want to keep steamrolled.


Naw, bitch. I was born this way.


Whoever owns this mult must be 100 years old.



Probably younger. An old guy would know Stanley was flattened by a bulletin board.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:36 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Flat Stanley wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?

Apparently you want to keep steamrolled.


Naw, bitch. I was born this way.


Whoever owns this mult must be 100 years old.


It is still popular

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
One Post wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
One Post wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
One Post wrote:

Still waiting for your thoughts on the above.

Please point out where in the Constitution it is stated that no state may leave the union. Granted, most states that choose to do so would be foolish due to the benefits they gain, but once again, self determination is a human right.


If the Founders wanted to let states leave the Union, don't you think they would have put a mechanism in the constitution to allow the states to leave?

I think our founders, especially given the content of the Federalist Papers, envisioned it was possible the government they were constructing could grow too large one day. They believed that the people should have a mechanism to overthrow such a government and change the paradigm they were constructing. Federalist #46 once again believes the people armed within a state should be allowed to repel a Federal army should a Federal government grow tyrannical


A couple things here:

1. You realize that the federalist papers don't speak for all of the founders? You understand this right? I don't think you do.
2. If they believed that the government would grow too large one day, or too controlling, this is even more support for my position that if the founders wanted the states to be able to leave the union, they would have designed something in the constitution to allow them to.
3. Again, we are back to your violent mindset in which the only way to oppose tyranny is by violence.

So we are still back to the original question, if Illinois wants to leave the Union, they should just use the processes embedded in the constitution correct? Yes or No?

1: They were written by key framers though and framers intent becomes important in interpretation. Remember, Madison authored the Bill of Rights, which is where the 2nd Amendment falls upon. Ditto for other rights granted by the 1st 10 Amendments

2: They only state how states can enter the union. Given their own separation from Britain and the fact they don't preclude states from leaving, it is reasonable to presume they would honor self determination. Especially when you look at the philosophies of the framers. If an amendment is needed to create a structure, then I am 100% behind that amendment.

3: You don't ask a tyrant permission for freedom. That never goes over well or accomplishes anything. You can try and make that your 1st step, but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?


The constitution itself describes the formation and working of the government, the first 10 amendments talk about rights between the state and its citizens. The authors of the federalist papers were not the author of the constitution, sorry to break it to you.

Again, if the concept of self determination was SOOOOOO important to the framers as you keep protesting, don't you think they would have added maybe one sentence in the constitution stating such? Your argument is so at odds with itself that it is staggering. Essentially you are saying that the framers thought self determination was so important that they would assume people would presume that a state could leave the union at will, and they didn't address it in a document that explicitly spells out how the government should work? They carved slaves up into 3/5ths of a person but forgot to add the sentence about a state can leave the union freely upon a vote of its citizens?

For every repulsion against tyranny in this country accomplished solely by use of the second amendment, there are 100 examples where people had the same success using a combination of the first, 4th, 6th, 14th. Again, this is your violent mindset. I mean the civil rights movement didn't blow anyone away and they did a pretty good job of rebelling against tyranny and instituting real change.


Last edited by One Post on Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
One Post wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
One Post wrote:

Wait I thought 3D technology was the greatest invention to prevent "tryanny", I'm confused...

Are you too fucking stupid to not know what 3D printing is vs. 3D facial recognition technology? Just asking


Are they not both 3D technologies?

All technology is 3D.


Conceeded.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Flat Stanley wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?

Apparently you want to keep steamrolled.


Naw, bitch. I was born this way.


Whoever owns this mult must be 100 years old.


It is still popular


Is it really? I had to Google it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:39 pm 
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One Post wrote:
So I guess you believe that one day a man will be able to legally marry a sheep in the USA? That's the slope we are on for marital rights...

Your argument/analogy is for the weak minded. It's a lot easier to say that because we droned on US citizen who was fighting our country in a foreign country that the logical conclusion is the Pres can shoot me in the head for fun. It's a weak minded argument. The more difficult argument is, was the original action just, are there considerations that would make it more or less just, if the citizenry deems it unjust what are there mechanisms to resist, what redress do they have individually or through their elected officials, is it just during war, is it just during peace, what level of standard should be applied to such an action if it is deemed just, should it be just in any situation, what are the international consequences of such action, what safeguards should be made surrounding the action if deemed just, etc.

Keep believing you are a deep thinker though...

You are building a nice strawman there with the sheep. Especially considering a sheep cannot consent to sexual relations, I'd say no on that. I'd have no problem with polygamy though provided all of the participants are consenting in the arrangement. It's not something I would personally care for though, but if others do, live and let live.

As for the extrajudicial killings, remember, the Executive Branch could not when pressed declare that such killings would be outlawed on US soil. That lone is alarming. In 2013, Eric Holder (then the AG) declared such a killing would be legal. I'd hardly say I'm inventing a false possible scenario here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/0 ... 13857.html

Do I think our current government will do so? I sure hope not and think they probably won't. However, the fact is they can do so and it is the opinion of the Justice Department that such a killing would be legal. That alone is scary and should be enough to give most citizens pause and realize that our government is growing in its power

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:40 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Flat Stanley wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?

Apparently you want to keep steamrolled.


Naw, bitch. I was born this way.


Whoever owns this mult must be 100 years old.


It is still popular


Is it really? I had to Google it.


Yep! Wait until your daughter goes to school.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Flat Stanley wrote:
IMU wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?

Apparently you want to keep steamrolled.


Naw, bitch. I was born this way.


Whoever owns this mult must be 100 years old.


It is still popular


Still see it pop up. Nephew did it 14/15 years ago. We got picked to be the ones who got sent the flat nephew. I'm hoping if my brother's kids do this they chose uncle Dave instead of uncle squirrel.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:41 pm 
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I would say the 9th and 10th Amendment provide a basis where states could leave the union or people could vote to leave the union.

9th- The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
10th- The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


There are plenty of things throughout history where the Constitution does not have explicit guidance.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

As for the extrajudicial killings, remember, the Executive Branch could not when pressed declare that such killings would be outlawed on US soil. That lone is alarming. In 2013, Eric Holder (then the AG) declared such a killing would be legal. I'd hardly say I'm inventing a false possible scenario here.



You don't like the response from the Executive Branch, exercise your right to representative democracy and vote in someone who will give you a satisfactory response.

Either that or start shooting people...


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
IMU wrote:
I think we're all realizing that Ogie is a loon constantly paranoid of Big Brother. He also has never used a valet service and pulls the sim card out of his cell phone when he isn't currently using it.


I wonder if he "looses his shit" if the clerk ever asks for his phone/email at the store?

AM I BEING DETAINED

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:47 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

As for the extrajudicial killings, remember, the Executive Branch could not when pressed declare that such killings would be outlawed on US soil. That lone is alarming. In 2013, Eric Holder (then the AG) declared such a killing would be legal. I'd hardly say I'm inventing a false possible scenario here.



You don't like the response from the Executive Branch, exercise your right to representative democracy and vote in someone who will give you a satisfactory response.

Either that or start shooting people...

I'm not one to go to violence. I am a believer in the NAP and do believe working within the system to change it is the 1st and best option. However, I also believe one should retain the tools necessary if forced to take action to preserve their liberty. Our founders certainly believed in that ideal.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
IMU wrote:
I think we're all realizing that Ogie is a loon constantly paranoid of Big Brother. He also has never used a valet service and pulls the sim card out of his cell phone when he isn't currently using it.


I wonder if he "looses his shit" if the clerk ever asks for his phone/email at the store?

AM I BEING DETAINED


I'm a Moor and a sovereign citizen! Your laws mean nothing armed tax collector!

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Ogie is a great American.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:53 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Ogie is a great American.


Glad he's on our side, and he brings a lot to the table on these forums. OnePost is no slouch either.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:56 pm 
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One Post and i are probably not going to change our minds or come to an agreement. I think we are both pretty entrenched in our views and while I vehemently disagree with him, I don't think his views are coming from a bad place.

I'm just going to post this self-depricating meme as it is somewhat accurate.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:26 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Ogie is a great American.


Glad he's on our side, and he brings a lot to the table on these forums. OnePost is no slouch either.


Don't sell him short. He's a tremendous slouch.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Great pic Ogie. You're definitely one of the good ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
One Post wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:

As for the extrajudicial killings, remember, the Executive Branch could not when pressed declare that such killings would be outlawed on US soil. That lone is alarming. In 2013, Eric Holder (then the AG) declared such a killing would be legal. I'd hardly say I'm inventing a false possible scenario here.



You don't like the response from the Executive Branch, exercise your right to representative democracy and vote in someone who will give you a satisfactory response.

Either that or start shooting people...

I'm not one to go to violence. I am a believer in the NAP and do believe working within the system to change it is the 1st and best option. However, I also believe one should retain the tools necessary if forced to take action to preserve their liberty. Our founders certainly believed in that ideal.


Nah, that isn't what you said earlier. You said the "2nd Amendment is THE firewall against tyranny", "the" as in singular. So that is the mindset of someone who sees tyranny and immediately views violence as the answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:43 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Ogie is a great American.


Yup.

I think Ogie goes overboard, but America needs people like him. He keeps em honest.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:43 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I would say the 9th and 10th Amendment provide a basis where states could leave the union or people could vote to leave the union.

9th- The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
10th- The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


There are plenty of things throughout history where the Constitution does not have explicit guidance.


Nobody in the history of american jurisprudence of any consequence has proffered this tortured reading of those amendments.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:45 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
1: They were written by key framers though and framers intent becomes important in interpretation. Remember, Madison authored the Bill of Rights, which is where the 2nd Amendment falls upon. Ditto for other rights granted by the 1st 10 Amendments

2: They only state how states can enter the union. Given their own separation from Britain and the fact they don't preclude states from leaving, it is reasonable to presume they would honor self determination. Especially when you look at the philosophies of the framers. If an amendment is needed to create a structure, then I am 100% behind that amendment.

3: You don't ask a tyrant permission for freedom. That never goes over well or accomplishes anything. You can try and make that your 1st step, but what do you do when you are not granted freedom?


The constitution itself describes the formation and working of the government, the first 10 amendments talk about rights between the state and its citizens. The authors of the federalist papers were not the author of the constitution, sorry to break it to you.

Again, if the concept of self determination was SOOOOOO important to the framers as you keep protesting, don't you think they would have added maybe one sentence in the constitution stating such? Your argument is so at odds with itself that it is staggering. Essentially you are saying that the framers thought self determination was so important that they would assume people would presume that a state could leave the union at will, and they didn't address it in a document that explicitly spells out how the government should work? They carved slaves up into 3/5ths of a person but forgot to add the sentence about a state can leave the union freely upon a vote of its citizens?

For every repulsion against tyranny in this country accomplished solely by use of the second amendment, there are 100 examples where people had the same success using a combination of the first, 4th, 6th, 14th. Again, this is your violent mindset. I mean the civil rights movement didn't blow anyone away and they did a pretty good job of rebelling against tyranny and instituting real change.


Still waiting for your response to the above.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:48 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
IMU wrote:
I think we're all realizing that Ogie is a loon constantly paranoid of Big Brother. He also has never used a valet service and pulls the sim card out of his cell phone when he isn't currently using it.


I wonder if he "looses his shit" if the clerk ever asks for his phone/email at the store?




I get irritated when I just want a haircut and they start asking me that shit, I just say, lady..I'm paying cash, I'm not interested in anything outside a haircut...then they get cunty and don't talk for 12 minutes while I snooze in the chair.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:49 pm 
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312player wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
IMU wrote:
I think we're all realizing that Ogie is a loon constantly paranoid of Big Brother. He also has never used a valet service and pulls the sim card out of his cell phone when he isn't currently using it.


I wonder if he "looses his shit" if the clerk ever asks for his phone/email at the store?




I get irritated when I just want a haircut and they start asking me that shit, I just say, lady..I'm paying cash, I'm not interested in anything outside a haircut...then they get cunty and don't talk for 12 minutes while I snooze in the chair.


You probably end up with as many boogers in your hair as JORR does in his cheeseburger...


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:50 pm 
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312player wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
IMU wrote:
I think we're all realizing that Ogie is a loon constantly paranoid of Big Brother. He also has never used a valet service and pulls the sim card out of his cell phone when he isn't currently using it.


I wonder if he "looses his shit" if the clerk ever asks for his phone/email at the store?




I get irritated when I just want a haircut and they start asking me that shit, I just say, lady..I'm paying cash, I'm not interested in anything outside a haircut...then they get cunty and don't talk for 12 minutes while I snooze in the chair.


:lol: I bet they love seeing you come into the store.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:56 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Ogie is a great American.


Glad he's on our side, and he brings a lot to the table on these forums. OnePost is no slouch either.


Agreed, but I'd include others like Darkside and IMU here as well. They appear earnest/honest in their positions

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