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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:31 am 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Michelle would be great if she chose to run.

Are there any Hispanic Dems out there? Governors, mayor's?


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Note: I’m just kidding. He would be a horrible candidate.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:43 pm 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Are there any Hispanic Dems out there? Governors, mayor's?

CHUY

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Trump will win re-election in 2020, so stop worrying about fighting it and just get in line.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:31 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
mrgoodkat wrote:
They need to pull a moderate out of their ass or watch as a person who went hard left gets picked apart by Trump, or whomever. Note that uncle Biden has been doing some less than nuanced walkbacks on the wage gap and other blatantly dishonest leftist hivemind garbage that he was spewing during the election. Trumps evisceration of anyone other than a genuine moderate liberal will make what he did to Jeb look tame.

This is astoundingly wrong. Trump beat a genuine moderate liberal in the last election precisely because he was able to run to the left of where she had historically been on economic issues and most people who would be sympathetic to what she was campaigning on didn't believe her anyway.


I agree, she was a moderate and that is why I was excited to vote for her, until she opened her mouth and pandered to leftists.

What was astounding was the sheer amount of baggage that moderate liberal brought to the table, and why in retrospect the Democrats thought she was anything other than doomed by it.


Hussra wrote:

Is Trump even the favorite to be the Republican standard bearer in 2020? I would think President Pence would be the odds-on favorite, unless he Gerald Ford's himself and pardons Trump and his family/friends.


If he does it will be unchallenged because he ruins political careers. But it doesn't matter. The blueprint is on the books. The Trump campaign was only effective because they knew the 21st century American and the political landscape better than Clinton did. They knew their side, and they continually know the other side. He routinely, to this day, plays the left. Our reaction to Trump hasn't walked any of that back, made anyone more intelligent, or grabbed back power for the extremists on both sides of the spectrum who now dominate the narratives.

The 2016 election flipped everything on its head just like executive action did. And both sides will use it when they get desperate. Clinton did a bit of that when her numbers started to slide. And the media also plays a huge role in that. This is the exact kind of intertwined ball of shit that human beings are terrible at unwinding and making sense of. Americans are historically even worse. We routinely make it worse.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:40 pm 
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mrgoodkat wrote:
I agree, she was a moderate and that is why I was excited to vote for her, until she opened her mouth and pandered to leftists.


The hell she did. Pandered to them so much they didn't vote for her. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:50 am 
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Seems a lot of "Im a democrat, but the party is too far left" people popping up these days.


Maybe it's my age. This is when people start shifting from liberal to conservative.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:51 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Seems a lot of "Im a democrat, but the party is too far left" people popping up these days.


Maybe it's my age. This is when people start shifting from liberal to conservative.


It does happen.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:52 am 
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pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Seems a lot of "Im a democrat, but the party is too far left" people popping up these days.


Maybe it's my age. This is when people start shifting from liberal to conservative.


It does happen.

I hope I die before I get old


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:53 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Seems a lot of "Im a democrat, but the party is too far left" people popping up these days.


Maybe it's my age. This is when people start shifting from liberal to conservative.

They are trying to shift to the far left and many of those ideas are bad in practice but sound awesome.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:27 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Seems a lot of "Im a democrat, but the party is too far left" people popping up these days.

Yeah, as the party has moved far to the right economically. These people you speak of are dumb.

This is good: https://newrepublic.com/article/145136/ ... atic-party

Quote:
Jim Kessler, vice president of the centrist Democratic think tank Third Way, opposes this approach—and the idea that Warren represents the new party mainstream. “She represents a wing of the party, and she represents it well,” he told me. The Democrat he thinks best represents the party consensus is the one who’s been preaching bipartisanship and moderation in recent weeks: former Vice President Joe Biden. But Kessler may end up in the minority. Walter told me “there is still a deep love and appreciation for Joe Biden, but his policies, especially if he runs basically where he’s been in the past and where he was with the Obama administration—I don’t know that it would be as popular as where Warren is coming from.”

That’s why her politics are intriguing to Democrats of many stripes. “The contest between Sanders and Clinton reflected progressive populism and liberal feminism,” Raskin said. “Elizabeth Warren is someone who merges them both. You could view her as the synthesis of the divides in the party we had in the 2016 election—a candidate who would leave nothing out and leave nobody behind.” Polling shows her agenda, which overlaps significantly with Sanders’s, isn’t just popular with Democrats. Most voters supported a $15-an-hour minimum wage, according to Pew survey last year. “Broad, bipartisan majorities support debt-free higher education,” a Demos poll found last October. The notion that the system is rigged in favor of big corporations certainly isn’t out of step with public opinion. Like all progressives, Warren has work to do selling single-payer healthcare, which doesn’t yet have clear majority support. But enthusiasm for Medicare for All is growing among Democrats in Washington and across the country.

Himes has reservations about Warren’s broader appeal. “How would Elizabeth Warren play in Ohio?” he mused on Tuesday. “It’s a huge question, and I’m not sure I have a preconceived notion. On the one hand, I think she has an authenticity and a clear passion that is going to be appealing to a lot of people. How she would manage gun issues that are pretty important in rural Wisconsin, other social and cultural issues, I think is an interesting question.” The question is whether Democrats should even be tailoring their message for places like rural Wisconsin, versus trying to energize a diverse swath of voters across the country. Raskin is fond of saying he has no ambition to be in the political center; he aims to occupy the moral center, and bring the politics to him. That’s a safer stance for a liberal congressman than a presidential candidate, and centrists rightly observe that public opinion hasn’t caught up to a whole host of progressive priorities. But as Kuttner said, mainstreaming “pocketbook populism” is Warren’s great gift, and it’s notable that even moderates like Himes—an ally of Wall Street and leader of an overtly moderate congressional caucus—won’t count her out. “If she can make the leap to being a candidate that played in the rural midwest,” he told me, “it could be really interesting to watch.”


I think Warren would play just fine in Ohio, actually. She'd do well in a lot of places where Mother failed. But yeah, it's hard to argue that she's a perfect compromise between the liberal feminists who think women in power magically make everything okay and the real progressives who care about ideas and policies.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:40 am 
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Yea everyone loves the $15 minimum wage and going after the banks. Plays great. "Cant lose" policy positions.

But the problem with Warren is she'll start on about her experiences as a woman, amplifying voices, intersectionalism...I dont know exactly what but it'll be some dumb shit...and the chunk of the population that sways the election will either stay home or vote Trump out of spite. Democrats cannot win. They have a runaway heat-seaking tornado that careens around their party laying waste to every decent idea or policy the instant such a nice thought surfaces. Anyone talking policy with the Democrats is missing the point. They have to expel the identity politics. And none of them will do that because they dont want to look racist/sexist/bigoted at the cocktail party.

So its over. Forget it. Might as well run Hillary out there every 4 years til the old bag is finally dead. And then find a new one. Keep waiting for the demographic horizon that will always stay just out of reach.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:45 am 
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America wrote:
Yea everyone loves the $15 minimum wage and going after the banks. Plays great. "Cant lose" policy positions.
This could work as long as it doesn't come off as proposing too much. That is where Sanders failed. I suspect Warren will try the "free puppies for all" campaign too. Hopefully she focuses on a few key issues instead.

The fact is things are good enough now that most people don't want to tear down the whole system regardless of how many 23 year olds get pumped about it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:29 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The fact is things are good enough

That's not a fact.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:36 am 
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America wrote:
But the problem with Warren is she'll start on about her experiences as a woman, amplifying voices, intersectionalism...I dont know exactly what but it'll be some dumb shit...and the chunk of the population that sways the election will either stay home or vote Trump out of spite.


There's value to some of that, though. Any populist movement needs women and minorities. It just can't be Hillary's strategy all over again.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:42 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The fact is things are good enough

That's not a fact.
A majority of Americans are happy enough to be fine just letting the ship move in roughly the same direction it has for the past 30 or so years. Do you disagree?

I mean, there are things that could be better but not enough bad to want to basically change a large portion of our lives, and hand over more power to the government than we ever have in history.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:57 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The fact is things are good enough

That's not a fact.
A majority of Americans are happy enough to be fine just letting the ship move in roughly the same direction it has for the past 30 or so years. Do you disagree?

Yes. I think the country is rotting from the inside out. Everything will always be fine enough in a bunch of places but there are swaths of the country that are falling apart. How bad are we supposed to let upstate New York or eastern Ohio or Wisconsin or West Virginia get?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:04 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Yes. I think the country is rotting from the inside out. Everything will always be fine enough in a bunch of places but there are swaths of the country that are falling apart. How bad are we supposed to let upstate New York or eastern Ohio or Wisconsin or West Virginia get?
Unfortunately, you can't protect every area especially after decades-long changes. There will be areas that grow and areas that stagnate or shrink just like there has always been. I mean, the invention of air conditioning did roughly the same thing many decades ago and we survived as a country. I seem to remember you talking about the major return to cities and how good of a thing it was to have major population centers expanding. Where did the people come from? All of a sudden you are worried about the rust belt?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:13 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The fact is things are good enough

That's not a fact.
A majority of Americans are happy enough to be fine just letting the ship move in roughly the same direction it has for the past 30 or so years. Do you disagree?

I mean, there are things that could be better but not enough bad to want to basically change a large portion of our lives, and hand over more power to the government than we ever have in history.

Hard to argue with such a rigorous empirical analysis.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:18 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
America wrote:
But the problem with Warren is she'll start on about her experiences as a woman, amplifying voices, intersectionalism...I dont know exactly what but it'll be some dumb shit...and the chunk of the population that sways the election will either stay home or vote Trump out of spite.


There's value to some of that, though. Any populist movement needs women and minorities. It just can't be Hillary's strategy all over again.

The democrats and liberal left have zero interest in being a populist party. Like absolutely none.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:19 am 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The fact is things are good enough

That's not a fact.
A majority of Americans are happy enough to be fine just letting the ship move in roughly the same direction it has for the past 30 or so years. Do you disagree?

I mean, there are things that could be better but not enough bad to want to basically change a large portion of our lives, and hand over more power to the government than we ever have in history.

Hard to argue with such a rigorous empirical analysis.
Well, the guy who was selling that massive change lost to Hillary Clinton who then couldn't beat a guy that most people knew would suck at President.

Maybe I'm wrong and most people aren't generally happy and just want things to say roughly the same with incremental improvements like we've tried to do for the entire time I've been alive. I look forward to the coming revolution!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:24 am 
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America wrote:
The democrats and liberal left have zero interest in being a populist party. Like absolutely none.

There's too much truth in that. I think part of the reason the media got so excited about pushing Trump and the lie of his "white working class" support was that it would help reinvent the Democratic Party as what its donor class wants it to be: the old Republican Party with rainbow flags and Beyonce songs. Cultural liberalism is cheap.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:53 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
America wrote:
The democrats and liberal left have zero interest in being a populist party. Like absolutely none.

There's too much truth in that. I think part of the reason the media got so excited about pushing Trump and the lie of his "white working class" support was that it would help reinvent the Democratic Party as what its donor class wants it to be: the old Republican Party with rainbow flags and Beyonce songs. Cultural liberalism is cheap.

:lol: I agree with them on many things . . . but good Lord, I detest them.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:05 pm 
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I don't know this is fair to say, certainly implies that the only reason why people with means do anything good is because of some hidden agenda, not saying it isn't the case in many circumstances, but can't be so cynical.

Let's think about this, on the one side you have free college and single payer, let's all admit this is a long way off and will take time to implement, on the Trumpy side you have an obvious agenda, and that is to make the rich richer at the expense of the future, but it won't matter for them because they will have already cashed out.

If there were a Democrat that had a legitimate path to healthcare improvements, ACA 2.0, education improvements NCLB 2.0, and better tone in America, I don't think that would be a bad thing nor do I think that it would be mere cultural liberalism, it is steady improvement.

As Barack Obama, the most progressive politician we have had actually had at the Presidential level would say, "Better is good!"

We better all get onboard with this message, or look forward to four more years with this moron (I said it, you can quote me :))


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:11 pm 
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ConnecticutRB wrote:
I don't know this is fair to say, certainly implies that the only reason why people with means do anything good is because of some hidden agenda, not saying it isn't the case in many circumstances, but can't be so cynical.


lol at a guy with Connecticut right in his name and everything saying that it's too cynical to believe that Wall Street is just leveraging wokeness for profit.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:22 pm 
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:) I am not a Wall-Street guy by any means, but doesn't matter anyway. It is easy to say populist, what does that mean exactly? To me it means to bring freedom and balance within the walls of our system, which until further notice is free market. Saying, "We will have the most amazing healtcare ever" does not make for it even if you are wearing a red trucker hat while saying it. The same can be said on the democratic side - if there is no reasonable path to get things done, they will not get done and none of will be any more or less happy than we are right now. If populist means a total outsider, how is that working out? - mastery of the DC levers is essential to progress.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:29 pm 
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America wrote:
The democrats and liberal left have zero interest in being a populist party. Like absolutely none.

Dammit, you nailed it: the DNC just purged a bunch of Sanders/Ellison supporters.

Quote:
The removal and demotion of a handful of veteran operatives stood out, as did what critics charge is the over-representation of Clinton-backed members on the Rules and Bylaws Committee, which helps set the terms for the party's presidential primary, though other Sanders and Ellison backers remain represented.

Those who have been pushed out include:

Ray Buckley, the New Hampshire Democratic chairman and longtime DNC official who ran against Perez for chair before backing Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., lost his spots on the Executive Committee and DNC Rules Committee;
James Zogby, the president of the Arab American Institute and prominent Sanders backer, is no longer co-chair of the Resolutions Committee and is off the Executive Committee, a spot he has held since 2001;
Alice Germond, the party’s longtime former secretary and a vocal Ellison backer, who was removed from her at-large appointment to the DNC; and
Barbra Casbar Siperstein, the first transgender member of the DNC who supported Ellison and Buckley, was tossed from the Executive Committee.

The moves exposed a rift in the partnership between Perez and his deputy chair, Ellison, who have publicly broadcast their "bromance" since Perez tapped the lawmaker for the post in a show of unity after their hard-fought race earlier this year for the party's chairmanship.


These fucks would rather lose on their terms than win on someone else's.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
America wrote:
The democrats and liberal left have zero interest in being a populist party. Like absolutely none.

Dammit, you nailed it: the DNC just purged a bunch of Sanders/Ellison supporters.

Quote:
The removal and demotion of a handful of veteran operatives stood out, as did what critics charge is the over-representation of Clinton-backed members on the Rules and Bylaws Committee, which helps set the terms for the party's presidential primary, though other Sanders and Ellison backers remain represented.

Those who have been pushed out include:

Ray Buckley, the New Hampshire Democratic chairman and longtime DNC official who ran against Perez for chair before backing Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., lost his spots on the Executive Committee and DNC Rules Committee;
James Zogby, the president of the Arab American Institute and prominent Sanders backer, is no longer co-chair of the Resolutions Committee and is off the Executive Committee, a spot he has held since 2001;
Alice Germond, the party’s longtime former secretary and a vocal Ellison backer, who was removed from her at-large appointment to the DNC; and
Barbra Casbar Siperstein, the first transgender member of the DNC who supported Ellison and Buckley, was tossed from the Executive Committee.

The moves exposed a rift in the partnership between Perez and his deputy chair, Ellison, who have publicly broadcast their "bromance" since Perez tapped the lawmaker for the post in a show of unity after their hard-fought race earlier this year for the party's chairmanship.


These fucks would rather lose on their terms than win on someone else's.

I'm not going to lie, but the GOP would probably be best served if they acted in a similar manner. The GOP desperately needs super delegates after the 2016 debacle that gave this country a candidate that will ensure the death of that party. The GOP will be lucky to win another election when the boomers start croaking from heroin overdoses and cirrhosis.

They're about to hand an Alabama Senate seat to the Dems because GOP primary voters are fucking morons. Honestly they deserve what they are going to get when they lose Senate seats in light red states in 2018 (in a year where they should be picking up seats given the Senate map).

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