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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
billypootons wrote:
true lies, a good bad movie...


Probably couldn't make that movie today.
With Bill Paxton dead, it would be tough.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
billypootons wrote:
true lies, a good bad movie...


Probably couldn't make that movie today.
With Bill Paxton dead, it would be tough.


:lol:
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"If not for me, Helen, do it for your country!"
"I have a little dick"
"The Vette gets 'em wet!"

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
billypootons wrote:
true lies, a good bad movie...


Probably couldn't make that movie today.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
billypootons wrote:
true lies, a good bad movie...


Probably couldn't make that movie today.


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God bless Activia.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Simon Biles came out today saying Larry Nasar molested her too. What a fucking monster that guy is.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:47 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Simon Biles came out today saying Larry Nasar molested her too. What a fucking monster that guy is.

He literally has dozens of victims, no exaggeration. USA Gymnastics did plenty to try to keep it hush hush too. They are going to be sued into oblivion and rightfully so.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Simon Biles came out today saying Larry Nasar molested her too. What a fucking monster that guy is.

He literally has dozens of victims, no exaggeration. USA Gymnastics did plenty to try to keep it hush hush too. They are going to be sued into oblivion and rightfully so.

Just let a few of those girls dad's pay him a visit in the prison. Problem solved.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Another great piece from a woman about the Aniz Ansar stuff, NYT no less.

I’m apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you’re a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too.

That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published this weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women’s empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness.

The headline primes the reader to gird for the very worst: “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life.” Like everyone else, I clicked.

The victim in this 3,000-word story is called “Grace” — not her real name — and her saga with Mr. Ansari began at a 2017 Emmys after-party. As recounted by Grace to the reporter Katie Way, she approached him, but he brushed her off at first. Then they bonded over their devotion to the same vintage camera.

Grace was at the party with someone else, but she and Mr. Ansari exchanged numbers and soon arranged a date in Manhattan.


After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening — she was “excited,” having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends — they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.” Yes, we are apparently meant to read into the nonconsensual wine choice.

They went out to dinner nearby and then returned home to Mr. Ansari’s apartment. As Grace tells it, the actor was far too eager to get back to his place after he paid for dinner: “Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we’re out of there.” Another sign of his apparent boorishness.

Grace complimented Mr. Ansari’s kitchen countertops. The actor then made a move, asking her to sit on the counter. They started kissing. He undressed her and then himself.

In the 30 or so minutes that followed — recounted beat by cringe-inducing beat — they hooked up. Mr. Ansari persistently tried to have penetrative sex with her, and Grace says she was deeply uncomfortable throughout. At various points, she told the reporter, she attempted to voice her hesitation, and that Mr. Ansari ignored her signals.

At last, she uttered the word “no” for the first time during their encounter, to Mr. Ansari’s suggestion that they have sex in front of a mirror. He said: “‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat on the couch and watched “Seinfeld.” She said to him: “You guys are all the same.” He called her an Uber. She cried on the way home. Fin.

If you are wondering what about this evening constituted the “worst night” of Grace’s life, or why it is being framed as a #MeToo story by a feminist website, you probably feel as confused as Mr. Ansari did the next day. “It was fun meeting you last night,” he texted.

“Last night might’ve been fun for you, but it wasn’t for me,” she responded. “You ignored clear nonverbal cues; you kept going with advances. You had to have noticed I was uncomfortable.” He replied with an apology.

Read Grace’s text message again.

Put in other words: I am angry that you weren’t able to read my mind.

It is worth carefully studying Grace’s story. Encoded in it are new yet deeply retrograde ideas about what constitutes consent — and what constitutes sexual violence.




We are told by the reporter that Grace “says she used verbal and nonverbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.” She adds that “whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say.” We are told that “he wouldn’t let her move away from him,” in the encounter.

Yet Mr. Ansari, in a statement responding to Grace’s story, said that “by all indications” the encounter was “completely consensual.”

I am a proud feminist, and this is what I thought while reading Grace’s story:

If you are hanging out naked with a man, it’s safe to assume he is going to try to have sex with you.

If the inability to choose a pinot noir over a pinot grigio offends you, you can leave right then and there.

If you don’t like the way your date hustles through paying the check, you can say, “I’ve had a lovely evening and I’m going home now.”

If you go home with him and discover he’s a terrible kisser, say “I’m out.”

If you start to hook up and don’t like the way he smells or the way he talks (or doesn’t talk), end it.

If he pressures you to do something you don’t want to do, use a four-letter word, stand up on your two legs and walk out his door.

Aziz Ansari sounds like he was aggressive and selfish and obnoxious that night. Isn’t it heartbreaking and depressing that men — especially ones who present themselves publicly as feminists — so often act this way in private? Shouldn’t we try to change our broken sexual culture? And isn’t it enraging that women are socialized to be docile and accommodating and to put men’s desires before their own? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But the solution to these problems does not begin with women torching men for failing to understand their “nonverbal cues.” It is for women to be more verbal. It’s to say: “This is what turns me on.” It’s to say “I don’t want to do that.” And, yes, sometimes it means saying piss off.

The single most distressing thing to me about Grace’s story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

All of this put me in mind of another piece published this weekend, this one by the novelist and feminist icon Margaret Atwood. “My fundamental position is that women are human beings,” she writes. “Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we’re back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists.”

Except, increasingly, they are.

Grace’s story was met with so many digital hosannas by young feminists, who insisted that consent is only consent if it is affirmative, active, continuous and — and this is the word most used — enthusiastic. Consent isn’t the only thing they are radically redefining. A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment.

To judge from social media reaction to Grace’s story, they also see a flagrant abuse of power in this sexual encounter. Yes, Mr. Ansari is a wealthy celebrity with a Netflix show. But he had no actual power over Grace — professionally or otherwise. And lumping him in with the same movement that brought down men who ran movie studios and forced themselves on actresses, or the factory floor supervisors who demanded sex from women workers, trivializes what #MeToo first stood for.

I’m sorry Grace had this experience. I too have had lousy romantic encounters, as has every adult woman I know. I have regretted these encounters, and not said anything at all. And I have regretted them and said so, like Grace did. And I know I am lucky that these unpleasant moments were far from being anything approaching assault or rape, or even the worst night of my life.

But the response to Grace’s story makes me think that many of my fellow feminists might insist that my experience was just that, and for me to define it otherwise is nothing more than my internalized misogyny.



There is a useful term for what Grace experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

The feminist answer is to push for a culture in which boys and young men are taught that sex does not have to be pursued like they’re in a porn film, and one in which girls and young women are empowered to be bolder, braver and louder about what they want. The insidious attempt by some women to criminalize awkward, gross and entitled sex takes women back to the days of smelling salts and fainting couches. That’s somewhere I, for one, don’t want to go.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:01 am 
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The NYT piece is logical because it comes from Bari Weiss. She has been a breath of fresh air at the NYT since she joined their staff last year. She also authored a great take down of Linda Sarsour last year.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:02 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The NYT piece is logical because it comes from Bari Weiss. She has been a breath of fresh air at the NYT since she joined their staff last year. She also authored a great take down of Linda Sarsour last year.

Doesn’t sound like a very good ally to me .

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:16 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

I'll have to take her word on it... I honestly have no idea what it's like!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:28 am 
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Holy fuck. Ashleigh Banfield drops the mic on the Ansari accuser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4bAULTwAJU&sns=tw%20via%20@youtube

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:35 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Holy fuck. Ashleigh Banfield drops the mic on the Ansari accuser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4bAULTwAJU&sns=tw%20via%20@youtube

This video is just a subtle way for this anonymous cable news Caller Bob to get to be a victim too. All that bullshit peppered in there, ambiguous allegations against "men" that apparently held her so far back in her broadcasting career that she gets to be on CNN...she's doing the same thing Grace did.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:41 am 
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Matt Walsh is a Conservative Catholic with views somewhere between Seacrest and my grandfather. I consider myself a libertine which makes sense considering when I was born (although the AIDS crisis did hit my generation right in the midst of what, for many of us, was likely to be our wildest phase). So I clearly don't agree with Matt Walsh.

But he took a lot of heat yesterday for this tweet:

"Casual sex doesn't violate consent, but it does violate human dignity. That's why you feel gross the next day. Not because you were raped, but because you allowed yourself to be degraded for the sake of cheap and fleeting pleasure."

Thor Benson immediately responded with a tweet saying, "Me after casual sex" and a GIF of a guy dancing down the street.

What seems lost on Mr. Benson is that Aziz Ansari undoubtedly thought exactly the same thing three days ago.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:11 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Thor Benson immediately responded with a tweet saying, "Me after casual sex" and a GIF of a guy dancing down the street.

I had to look up this Thor Benson dude and this guy ain't a Thor... Seriously you gotta earn that name by like, say, throwing three straight fuck you 93mph sliders to Kendrys Morales with the bases loaded at Kauffman stadium (where they played "American woman" when you first came out to warm up B1 cuz it was the championship celebration and their uniforms were extra gold. GOLD. Gary Cohen finally snapped on them late on the last game in the series =)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:23 am 
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Thank you, Grace, I think you're wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:23 am 
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The author is a man, so I'm sure he will be told his opinion doesn't matter and he should "stop talking and listen." Or maybe DiCaro will read it and tell other people not to because it's trash.

http://theweek.com/articles/748849/aziz ... o-movement

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If the term "jump the shark" didn't already exist, it would need to be invented to describe the state of the #MeToo movement after the publication of (and lavish praise for) a lengthy essay recounting the lurid details of one woman's bad date with comedian Aziz Ansari.

Already, a growing list of writers — Cathy Young, Masha Gessen, Daphne Merkin, Margaret Atwood, and Andrew Sullivan — had begun to raise concerns about the danger of the movement going too far, engaging in witch hunts, displaying disregard for due process, and imposing prudish Puritanical standards on sexual interactions. But with the Ansari essay, published on the website Babe.net, we've entered new territory.

The essay, which author Caitlin Flanagan aptly describes at The Atlantic as "3,000 words of revenge porn," recounts the story of a 23-year-old photographer who eagerly went on a date with Ansari last September, accompanied him back to his apartment after a rushed dinner out, and then engaged in a complicated series of graphically described and exceedingly awkward sexual interactions with him. Eventually the woman (given the pseudonym "Grace" to conceal her identity) fled his apartment in tears. The following day, when Ansari texted to say he'd had a good time, she sent Ansari a text message in which she admitted her discomfort with his behavior the night before, and he rather cluelessly apologized.

That, apparently, was it — until the story of the date appeared online, insinuating that Ansari is guilty of … well, the story never really says. If its account of his behavior is accurate, then he certainly acted like a self-involved, sex-obsessed creep for much of the date. Lacking a word to describe such behavior, many have resorted to calling it "sexual misconduct."

In a workplace, expectations regarding interactions among employees are clearly defined by law and binding regulations. That makes it possible to define sexual misconduct with some precision as a violation of those expectations. But Grace didn't work for Ansari, and they weren't coworkers. He had no authority over her at all (beyond the authority she may have invested in him by virtue of his celebrity). In that open-ended context of two people who decided to go home together, describing his actions as "sexual misconduct" sounds vaguely Orwellian — as a transgression against norms that are presumed to be binding on all despite the fact that they have yet to be defined.

And that's what the hit job on Ansari is really all about.

The #MeToo movement began in the immediate wake of revelations of astonishingly abusive behavior by movie producer Harvey Weinstein (which itself followed similarly vile accusations against Bill Cosby, Bill O'Reilly, and Roger Ailes). From the start, its message was powerful and compelling: Women need to come forward and share their stories of sexual abuse and predation, both in the workplace and elsewhere. They have done exactly that, and they continue to do so. A long list of powerful men have now been brought down by such stories: Leon Wieseltier, Mark Halperin, Kevin Spacey, Louis CK, Matt Lauer, and dozens of other actors and media personalities.

But the #MeToo movement has also been about something else from the beginning — something less focused or clearly defined. Just two weeks after the Weinstein story broke, I wrote a column in which I noted that the movement was already in danger of becoming a quasi-religious quest for spiritual uplift marked by righteous denunciations, post-Christian expressions of atonement, and calls for moral awakening and conversion, mass repentance and purification.

Over the intervening months, as the movement took down a series of men who had gotten away for years with wildly abusive behavior in the workplace (and also targeted some borderline cases), some of its most prominent champions have insisted the movement be more ambitious. Women need to call out any and all examples of behavior that could be described as sexual misconduct, broadly defined: bad sex, inconsiderate sex, sex in which the man treats his partner solely as an object for his gratification, and sex in which consent is in any way ambiguous or ambivalent.

But of course bad sex isn't illegal. And neither does it violate any clearly defined laws or regulations, such as those set up in the workplace. In the absence of codified norms against such behavior, what can be done?

The Ansari case shows us the chilling possibility: The alleged perpetrator of sexual misconduct can be shamed, humiliated, his every oafish act offered up to the world for mockery and condemnation by the tweet-mob. That's assuming, of course, that he's famous. All the countless thousands of faceless men who treat woman just as bad as (or far worse than) Ansari treated Grace will retain their anonymity, since no one will click on a story about how some random woman hooked up with some equally random horny, self-involved jerk.

The best that can probably be said for the Ansari story is that it's supposed to serve as an object lesson and cautionary tale for all those anonymous guys. Ansari's punishment — exacted by his unhappy date, imposed by the media outlet that was willing to run the story — is to serve as a negative example: Don't treat women like this! It's wrong! And they hate it! (As Flanagan notes, the most moving moment in the essay comes when Grace storms out of Ansari's apartment proclaiming, "You guys are all the same, you guys are all the f-cking same.")

Is this likely to work? Will the ritual humiliation of a few entitled, sexually stunted men accomplish a moral revolution? I doubt it very much — because it takes two to have bad sex, and the key to teaching men how to improve their ability to relate sexually to their partners is communication, which is one thing completely lacking in the story of Grace's horrible date with Ansari.

The impression one gets from reading that sorry account is that Grace is incredibly passive. Ansari dictates when they leave the restaurant and return to his apartment. Through several rounds of sexual interaction, he's the one who initiates. She stops him multiple times, and indicates that she'd like to take it slower, but until the final conflagration, she never really explains what she wants or expects, or firmly tells him the date is over, or makes clear that she will not continue fooling around with him. On the contrary, she repeatedly relents to his cloddish and smarmy advances. Until she leaves and sends him the angry text the following day. And then speaks to a reporter at Babe.net, which published the whole account for all the world to read.

The psychological term for such behavior is passive-aggression. One of its sources is an inability to communicate emotions, which leads to lashing out in hostility.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:29 am 
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Dude those last two paragraphs are fucking fire and brimstone! Hell yeah! Have some computer grandmother >> https://youtu.be/mZ1dL7zVDek

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:00 am 
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yeah, aziz is such a bad lay that he makes women feel awkward and regretful afterwards. who'd of thunk a scraggly comedian would be bad at doin it.

kudo's to the women going after this story but ultimately, their cause is so fraught with this garbage, that its muddled their ability to effect change.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:02 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The good news is that these radical feminists will never marry nor will they have kids so their kind will eventually die off.

Julie is the exception because she married and had kids before morphing into a rabid feminist. It's funny, every girl I knew in HS or college who has morphed into one is still single now as they are in their 30s and with no prospect of that changing. :lol: Biological clocks are going tick tock

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I really thought that was a joke(fake tweet) jesus that woman is deranged.


I did too.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:04 am 
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hnd wrote:
yeah, aziz is such a bad lay that he makes women feel awkward and regretful afterwards. who'd of thunk a scraggly comedian would be bad at doin it.

kudo's to the women going after this story but ultimately, their cause is so fraught with this garbage, that its muddled their ability to effect change.


If he had performed oral correctly she would have been following him around like a puppy for the next year.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:07 am 
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if only he'd of gotten the hunch she wasn't into it with such obvious non verbal cues like putting his penis in her mouth.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:19 am 
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hnd wrote:
if only he'd of gotten the hunch she wasn't into it with such obvious non verbal cues like putting his penis in her mouth.


I've never met a woman and just wanted to go down on her. I don't know if this is a new thing but that seems different to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:25 am 
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Nas wrote:
hnd wrote:
if only he'd of gotten the hunch she wasn't into it with such obvious non verbal cues like putting his penis in her mouth.


I've never met a woman and just wanted to go down on her. I don't know if this is a new thing but that seems different to me.

Looks like she was so distraught by being there with them she even forgot to practice safe sex. It’s a shame she had no agency in her own protection

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:28 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Looks like she was so distraught by being there with them she even forgot to practice safe sex. It’s a shame she had no agency in her own protection


it was due to the choice in wine


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:35 am 
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this story has taught me that sexual coercion is bad. and that if you pressure a women to do sex stuff, and they ultimately succomb to the pressure and make a choice to do sex stuff with you they reserve the right to regret it afterwords and blame you for coercing them in to doing it.... also, horny men must somehow disconnect the penis' control of the brain during sexual activity to be hypersensitive to verbal/physical cues from women.... because men are generally REALLY GREAT and understanding non verbal or subtle cues from women.

in short, have your lawyer write up a consent form and get it signed and notarized before each date

edit: i'd like to think i'd never strongly coerce a women in to doing sex stuff.... but there's a million shades of grey here


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:38 am 
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billypootons wrote:
this story has taught me that sexual coercion is bad. and that if you pressure a women to do sex stuff, and they ultimately succomb to the pressure and make a choice to do sex stuff with you they reserve the right to regret it afterwords and blame you for coercing them in to doing it.... also, horny men must somehow disconnect the penis' control of the brain during sexual activity to be hypersensitive to verbal/physical cues from women.... because men are generally REALLY GREAT and understanding non verbal or subtle cues from women.

in short, have your lawyer write up a consent form and get it signed and notarized before each date

edit: i'd like to think i'd never strongly coerce a women in to doing sex stuff.... but there's a million shades of grey here


Just ask several times during sex if that's what they want to do or do what Charlie Sheen does.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:42 am 
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Nas wrote:
hnd wrote:
if only he'd of gotten the hunch she wasn't into it with such obvious non verbal cues like putting his penis in her mouth.


I've never met a woman and just wanted to go down on her. I don't know if this is a new thing but that seems different to me.


its seems pretty standard fare based on hbo/cinemax movies.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Bada boom. Realest guy in the room.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Nas wrote:
hnd wrote:
if only he'd of gotten the hunch she wasn't into it with such obvious non verbal cues like putting his penis in her mouth.


I've never met a woman and just wanted to go down on her. I don't know if this is a new thing but that seems different to me.


I dunno. Sometimes I see chicks in yoga pants bending over and all I can do is think of a number.


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