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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I imagine in swing states there's more bullshit going on. Indiana or Illinois aren't exactly swing states.

Indiana is. Wisconsin, too, and there's been lots of suspicious stuff happening under Walker.

Quote:
After the election, registered voters in Milwaukee County and Madison’s Dane County were surveyed about why they didn’t cast a ballot. Eleven percent cited the voter ID law and said they didn’t have an acceptable ID; of those, more than half said the law was the “main reason” they didn’t vote. According to the study’s author, University of Wisconsin-Madison political scientist Kenneth Mayer, that finding implies that between 12,000 and 23,000 registered voters in Madison and Milwaukee—and as many as 45,000 statewide—were deterred from voting by the ID law. “We have hard evidence there were tens of thousands of people who were unable to vote because of the voter ID law,” he says.

Trump carried the state by less than 23,000 votes.

Wisconsin’s voter ID law was designed to create complex hoops prospective voters had to jump through to secure an ID, particularly for those without driver’s licenses, and also for college students attending schools that did not issue the kind of IDs the law demanded. Berman found abundant evidence that election personnel in the state went beyond the letter of the law to discourage compliance. And voter ID was just part of the arsenal of voter suppression techniques at the GOP’s disposal:

The voter ID law was one of 33 election changes passed in Wisconsin after Walker took office [in 2011], and it dovetailed with his signature push to dismantle unions, taking away his opponents’ most effective organizing tool. Wisconsin’s Legislature cut early voting from 30 days to 12, reduced early voting hours on nights and weekends, and restricted early voting to one location per county, hampering voters in large urban areas and sprawling rural ones. It also added new residency requirements for voter registration, eliminated staffers who led statewide registration drives, and made it harder to count absentee ballots.

It all added up, and for Republicans, it paid off handsomely in 2016.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I'm sure you always have a reason to not defend something. I'm more interested in the things you won't defend or "take issue with" or have a 30 page over semantics about that conservatives do or say. I've seen Chas and others draw lines but I'm still waiting for that JLN line. I imagine there has to be one. I thought it would be murder but we learned that wasn't true earlier this year.

JLN is very good at posting "I'm not saying, I'm just saying." but with 500 more words.


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Nas wrote:
I imagine in swing states there's more bullshit going on. Indiana or Illinois aren't exactly swing states.

Indiana is. Wisconsin, too, and there's been lots of suspicious stuff happening under Walker.

Quote:
After the election, registered voters in Milwaukee County and Madison’s Dane County were surveyed about why they didn’t cast a ballot. Eleven percent cited the voter ID law and said they didn’t have an acceptable ID; of those, more than half said the law was the “main reason” they didn’t vote. According to the study’s author, University of Wisconsin-Madison political scientist Kenneth Mayer, that finding implies that between 12,000 and 23,000 registered voters in Madison and Milwaukee—and as many as 45,000 statewide—were deterred from voting by the ID law. “We have hard evidence there were tens of thousands of people who were unable to vote because of the voter ID law,” he says.

Trump carried the state by less than 23,000 votes.

Wisconsin’s voter ID law was designed to create complex hoops prospective voters had to jump through to secure an ID, particularly for those without driver’s licenses, and also for college students attending schools that did not issue the kind of IDs the law demanded. Berman found abundant evidence that election personnel in the state went beyond the letter of the law to discourage compliance. And voter ID was just part of the arsenal of voter suppression techniques at the GOP’s disposal:

The voter ID law was one of 33 election changes passed in Wisconsin after Walker took office [in 2011], and it dovetailed with his signature push to dismantle unions, taking away his opponents’ most effective organizing tool. Wisconsin’s Legislature cut early voting from 30 days to 12, reduced early voting hours on nights and weekends, and restricted early voting to one location per county, hampering voters in large urban areas and sprawling rural ones. It also added new residency requirements for voter registration, eliminated staffers who led statewide registration drives, and made it harder to count absentee ballots.

It all added up, and for Republicans, it paid off handsomely in 2016.


What are the complex hoops prospective voters must jump though to get an ID? You can get a free ID card for voting purposes: https://www.dmv.org/wi-wisconsin/id-cards.php

Voter ID Card

You can apply for a free ID card in Wisconsin for voting purposes only, if you:

Will be 18 years old or older by the next election.
Are a U.S. citizen.
Are eligible to vote in Wisconsin.

Applications must be made in person at a WI DMV office. You will need:

A completed Wisconsin Identification Card (ID) Application (Form MV3004).
A completed DMV Administrator Petition – Unavailable Documentation (Form MV3012).
Proof of your identity, such as your:
U.S. passport.
Pay stub.
Social Security card.
Proof of your Wisconsin address, such as your:
Recent utility bill.
College ID card.
Recent bank statement.

Getting a free ID for Voting is easy even if you do not have the documentation to get a regular Wisconsin ID!

Go to the DMV to apply
Bring the following, if available:
Proof of Name and Date of Birth
(such as Birth Certificate)
Proof of Identity
(Social Security Card, Medicaid/Medicare Card, etc.)
Wisconsin Residency
(Utility bill, government mail, lease, etc.)
Proof of U.S. Citizenship
(U.S. Birth certificate or citizenship paperwork)
Social Security Number

If you don't have all or any of these, you can still get an ID for voting. Just bring what you have to the DMV, fill out 2 forms, and you will get a photo ID document in the mail that you can use in time for voting. Here is a sample of the document you'll be receiving.

Call our voter ID hotline if you need assistance: (844) 588-1069

If you already hold an unexpired Wisconsin driver license or identification (ID) card, or if you hold a Wisconsin driver license or ID card that has expired since the last general election (currently November 8, 2016), you have what you need to vote. A Wisconsin driver license or ID card is acceptable photo ID for voting.


That doesn't seem complex or unreasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm sure you always have a reason to not defend something. I'm more interested in the things you won't defend or "take issue with" or have a 30 page over semantics about that conservatives do or say. I've seen Chas and others draw lines but I'm still waiting for that JLN line. I imagine there has to be one. I thought it would be murder but we learned that wasn't true earlier this year.

JLN is very good at posting "I'm not saying, I'm just saying." but with 500 more words.


Nah, not really, I generally say what I mean. Like in this case, it's bullshit to intimate police-executed voter suppression without a solitary bit of evidence.

The fact that I have to say such posititon is not a defense of other voter suppression tactics reflects poorly on you, not me.


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:52 pm 
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http://www.stephenpettigrew.com/research/


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:53 pm 
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The national Democratic party orgs alone have raised like $500MM for 2018. https://www.opensecrets.org/parties/

I'm sure there's plenty more dough out there in various nooks and crannies (state & local party offices).

Don't you think they could do a better job of getting people off their asses and to a polling station? Parties or free massages or something? BILLBOARDS?

Voter turnout by Latinos and lower income people is really terrible in general: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/01/19/m ... -chart-07/

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:15 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
http://www.stephenpettigrew.com/research/


This is interesting. I'll give it a more thorough read, but this particularly caught my eye:

Image

Does this graph look to anyone else like it is showing the average wait time for casting a ballot is trending downward from 2008 to 2016, and not just with inverse proportion to the whiteness of the community served, and possibly trending downward irrespective of the community's racial composition?


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Literally didn't read it. Just saw it in an article and figured you guys would litigate it for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Hey Reader, does this graph look to you like the average wait time to cast a ballot has been decreasing, even irrespective of a community's "whiteness", from 2008 to 2016?

Image

Regular Reader wrote:
Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


Last edited by Juice's Lecture Notes on Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:31 pm 
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How about these charts, Reader, do they show a downward trend in average wait time for black people?

Image

Image

Regular Reader wrote:
Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


Last edited by Juice's Lecture Notes on Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Reader, how about these bar graphs showing the distribution of wait times for black Americans in the last three elections? Outside of 2008 (hmm, what could that have been to drive up wait times?), is there a general downward trend, even and especially in waits to cast a ballot that are reportedly longer than an hour?

Image
Image

Regular Reader wrote:
Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


Last edited by Juice's Lecture Notes on Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:35 pm 
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You do realize that wait times will be significantally lower in mid-term/special elections, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:36 pm 
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JLN are you aware what the thread is about? I mean I know that you aren't defending anything but I keep wondering how much effort does it take to pretend to be ignorant while not actually defending anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
You do realize that wait times will be significantally lower in mid-term/special elections, right?


Good, good, give him that straw to grasp at. You've played your role perfectly, thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Nas wrote:
JLN are you aware what the thread is about?


I'm addressing this:
Regular Reader wrote:
Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
You do realize that wait times will be significantally lower in mid-term/special elections, right?


Good, good, give him that straw to grasp at. You've played your role perfectly, thank you.


I'm starting to think this is some mental excercise for you and you're getting an erection by getting people to respond or that you're LTG's alter ego.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Tad Queasy wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Nas wrote:
I imagine in swing states there's more bullshit going on. Indiana or Illinois aren't exactly swing states.

Indiana is. Wisconsin, too, and there's been lots of suspicious stuff happening under Walker.

Quote:
After the election, registered voters in Milwaukee County and Madison’s Dane County were surveyed about why they didn’t cast a ballot. Eleven percent cited the voter ID law and said they didn’t have an acceptable ID; of those, more than half said the law was the “main reason” they didn’t vote. According to the study’s author, University of Wisconsin-Madison political scientist Kenneth Mayer, that finding implies that between 12,000 and 23,000 registered voters in Madison and Milwaukee—and as many as 45,000 statewide—were deterred from voting by the ID law. “We have hard evidence there were tens of thousands of people who were unable to vote because of the voter ID law,” he says.

Trump carried the state by less than 23,000 votes.

Wisconsin’s voter ID law was designed to create complex hoops prospective voters had to jump through to secure an ID, particularly for those without driver’s licenses, and also for college students attending schools that did not issue the kind of IDs the law demanded. Berman found abundant evidence that election personnel in the state went beyond the letter of the law to discourage compliance. And voter ID was just part of the arsenal of voter suppression techniques at the GOP’s disposal:

The voter ID law was one of 33 election changes passed in Wisconsin after Walker took office [in 2011], and it dovetailed with his signature push to dismantle unions, taking away his opponents’ most effective organizing tool. Wisconsin’s Legislature cut early voting from 30 days to 12, reduced early voting hours on nights and weekends, and restricted early voting to one location per county, hampering voters in large urban areas and sprawling rural ones. It also added new residency requirements for voter registration, eliminated staffers who led statewide registration drives, and made it harder to count absentee ballots.

It all added up, and for Republicans, it paid off handsomely in 2016.


What are the complex hoops prospective voters must jump though to get an ID? You can get a free ID card for voting purposes: https://www.dmv.org/wi-wisconsin/id-cards.php

Voter ID Card

You can apply for a free ID card in Wisconsin for voting purposes only, if you:

Will be 18 years old or older by the next election.
Are a U.S. citizen.
Are eligible to vote in Wisconsin.

Applications must be made in person at a WI DMV office. You will need:

A completed Wisconsin Identification Card (ID) Application (Form MV3004).
A completed DMV Administrator Petition – Unavailable Documentation (Form MV3012).
Proof of your identity, such as your:
U.S. passport.
Pay stub.
Social Security card.
Proof of your Wisconsin address, such as your:
Recent utility bill.
College ID card.
Recent bank statement.

Getting a free ID for Voting is easy even if you do not have the documentation to get a regular Wisconsin ID!

Go to the DMV to apply
Bring the following, if available:
Proof of Name and Date of Birth
(such as Birth Certificate)
Proof of Identity
(Social Security Card, Medicaid/Medicare Card, etc.)
Wisconsin Residency
(Utility bill, government mail, lease, etc.)
Proof of U.S. Citizenship
(U.S. Birth certificate or citizenship paperwork)
Social Security Number

If you don't have all or any of these, you can still get an ID for voting. Just bring what you have to the DMV, fill out 2 forms, and you will get a photo ID document in the mail that you can use in time for voting. Here is a sample of the document you'll be receiving.

Call our voter ID hotline if you need assistance: (844) 588-1069

If you already hold an unexpired Wisconsin driver license or identification (ID) card, or if you hold a Wisconsin driver license or ID card that has expired since the last general election (currently November 8, 2016), you have what you need to vote. A Wisconsin driver license or ID card is acceptable photo ID for voting.


That doesn't seem complex or unreasonable.

Far be it for me (and I’m not allowed to anyway ) to speak for the black community but I’d be pretty fucking insulted if someone characterized the simple directions above as jumping through hoops in an attempt to keep me from voting .

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
hnd wrote:
people just don't want to work polling booths in bad neighborhoods. so they work with what they work with.

voting paperwork is so menial and easy to do.


People in those neighborhoods DO want to work those polling booths, but in republican states the positions and resources are being choked out. Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


around here they struggle with volunteers. my old neighbor worked in the 17th district or whatever organizing precincts.


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:09 pm 
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From the abstract,

In this paper I demonstrate that voting precincts in mostly minority neighborhoods have an average wait time that is twice as long as the wait in a mostly white neighborhood. Minority voters are also six times more likely than whites to wait longer than 60 minutes to vote. I show that most of this racial gap can be explained by how local election officials handle white and non-white precincts differently. The biggest of these differences is that, within an election administration jurisdiction (either county or town), white precincts tend to receive more resources--like voting machines and poll workers--per voter than minority ones. White precincts tend to have 20 fewer voters per voting machine and 90 fewer voters per poll worker than minority precincts. The findings of this paper suggest way forward for improving the voting experience for the 3.5 million voters who waited more than an hour in 2012.

This guy reminds me of CH. He has his rink stats blog http://rinkstats.com/. So the average post season hockey game has on average 15 more hits than the regular season.


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I happen to particularly enjoy deflating that puffed up chest of yours, especially when you make it so abundantly clear that you can't stand being challenged on anything.


Whatever gives you your jollies I guess.



This is the same guy who argued that the causes of secession weren't actually the causes of secession. This after being provided with the actual declaration of secession documents which proved him wrong.


What the hell are you talking about? I don't think that was me.



Oh yes it was.

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=105129&start=420&hilit=lincoln

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:25 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I happen to particularly enjoy deflating that puffed up chest of yours, especially when you make it so abundantly clear that you can't stand being challenged on anything.


Whatever gives you your jollies I guess.



This is the same guy who argued that the causes of secession weren't actually the causes of secession. This after being provided with the actual declaration of secession documents which proved him wrong.


What the hell are you talking about? I don't think that was me.



Oh yes it was.

http://www.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopi ... it=lincoln


Ohhh, I remember now. This is one of your infamous "directly contradicted by your own sources" incidents! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:42 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Hey Reader, does this graph look to you like the average wait time to cast a ballot has been decreasing, even irrespective of a community's "whiteness", from 2008 to 2016?

Image

Regular Reader wrote:
Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


Hey jln, does your chart show 2016 like you assert?

And keep cherry picking but ignoring the above raised point about obvious differences between presidential year (for which the data is bad on it's face) and off year election.

I see why your attempts to try and get through law school failed, you can't read...even simple numbers

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:50 pm 
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hnd wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
hnd wrote:
people just don't want to work polling booths in bad neighborhoods. so they work with what they work with.

voting paperwork is so menial and easy to do.


People in those neighborhoods DO want to work those polling booths, but in republican states the positions and resources are being choked out. Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


around here they struggle with volunteers. my old neighbor worked in the 17th district or whatever organizing precincts.


Around here it's never been a problem. But it still begs the question about why one side is so motivated to place unneeded voting restrictions, generally citing nothing newer than the JFK election of 1960.

And don't ask jln why, he's constitutionally incapable of answering a question like that, as his record shows

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Reader, how about these bar graphs showing the distribution of wait times for black Americans in the last three elections? Outside of 2008 (hmm, what could that have been to drive up wait times?), is there a general downward trend, even and especially in waits to cast a ballot that are reportedly longer than an hour?

Image
Image

Regular Reader wrote:
Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


Hey jln keep being completely intellectually dishonest. 2012 and 2016 aren't even on the chart.

Nice try cherry picker.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:57 pm 
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I've just never felt that showing an ID to vote was an inconvenience. If you can't manage to get an ID in 4 years before an election...I question your mental capacity to vote in the first place. Now the link that was posted showed they were asking for county of birth and other shit like that...they can shove that up their ass. Show the ID and move on, people aren't getting fake IDs to vote (except the kid in Breakfast Club).

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
How about these charts, Reader, do they show a downward trend in average wait time for black people?

Image

Image

Regular Reader wrote:
Hence 6-8-10 hours voting lines are becoming increasingly more common.


Hey jln, do these charts show the last two presidential elections?

And not having read Bryan's piece yet, I wonder if there is a more detailed breakdown for states like Michigan, Wisconsin, the south or other Crosscheck states?

Don't bother jln, you've shown your inability to read reliably.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I've just never felt that showing an ID to vote was an inconvenience.

Because it isn’t .

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Last edited by badrogue17 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Voter Suppression...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I've just never felt that showing an ID to vote was an inconvenience. If you can't manage to get an ID in 4 years before an election...I question your mental capacity to vote in the first place. Now the link that was posted showed they were asking for county of birth and other shit like that...they can shove that up their ass. Show the ID and move on, people aren't getting fake IDs to vote (except the kid in Breakfast Club).


That's the thing of it, you and I generally are in agreement on that. It's all the extras larded on, and in Alabama that they closed many of the Secretary of state offices in the "Black Belt " just south of Birmingham just after the voting law changed.

Coincidentally of course if you ask jln I'm sure.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


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