Holy shit, you guys will argue about anything.

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I don't remember half the time if I'm hiding or I'm lost

I will concede that he was the better candidate. He won 49 to 1. with the largest popular vote disparity in history. McGovern's legacy is tied to that landslide. The liberal movement was destroyed after his defeat.

It wasn't simply about Nixon. McGovern was also a weak candidate.

Hillary Clinton ran a terrible campaign but if it was all about her then how did he win in the primaries?

There were surely better candidates to be found there?

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I'm impressed.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Please, tell me more about how you don't like to make or take things personal on the board...

Trump won the primaries largely due to the fact it was such a crowded field. You had 16 candidates with largely the same viewpoints and little to distinguish between them. Then enter Trump who is bombasitc, loud, and pretty much going to say anything. That is going to attract a lot of media attention and from day 1 when he went in on his "they're rapists, they're criminals" statement he was the #1 news story and just about the only thing talked about on cable news. The TV coverage he received alone was valued to be the equivalent in $2 billion worth of ad buys (citation: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/upsh ... media.html )

By the time the candidates who could beat him dropped out, he was too far ahead. Trump alone never would've polled above 35% amongst the GOP field, but when the other 65% was split and several GOP primary states were winner takes all, Trump had a clear road to the nomination.

It still didn't make him a strong candidate. In fact, it made him a historically weak one in the general. There was almost no hope for him to win. It took Hillary's ineptitude for him to win an election that he had no business winning.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

He wasn't strong in theory. In practice he was however. You do not commit the number of gaffes and faux pas without having a certain level of strength. You do not have the level of baggage that Trump had and win unless you have a strong base.

Trump benefitted greatly from the "browning" of America. For the past 15 years or so there has been a tremendous amount of discussion regarding America's changing demographic composition. Trump's election was a reaction to that. It was a direct resistance to it.

White supremacist groups favored him for a reason. If Hillary is the racist that the majority of people on here state that she is then they should have had no problem supporting her should they?

Trump laid the foundation for it with the Birther movement and he followed it up as a candidate with the Wall. His attacks on Muslims further cemented his appeal as the anti Browning of America choice.

As long as he never deviates from this he will be fine. He can sell his supporters out on economic reform (already has) He can sell them out on Obamacare but he better not sell them out on racial/ethnic issues. When he does that he will be crucified.

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Also a lot of Democrats seemed to chose to vote in the Republican primaries and were proud of it until they weren't.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Trump is going to win again and when he does the same sorts of arguments will be used.

It won't be a vote for Trump as much it will be the thumbing of voters at (name your boogeyman) Media, Left, Women, Minorities, Homosexuals, Immigrants. Each will be used to validate the reelection of the stumbling, mumbling, bumbling idiot. Anything except the fact that he was favored by those that voted for him.

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Rick, wasn’t there some thought related to that which had Trump the clown being the more desirable opponent?

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It might be because the economy is good.

Remember when Democrats knew, "It's the economy, stupid"?

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

What did you think of the Autopsy: The Democratic Party in Crisis?

"For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin."

This was a really bad strategy and had nothing to do with the browning of America what ever that is. They made it clear they did not give a crap about any of the working class of any race.

It will only be because the economy is good.

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True.

But it's not fear of the working class or poor white people one party has been primarily running on since 1964.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Based on a giant bubble that fiscal conservatives are increasingly nervous about.

And then the real problems start.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I find it interesting that Spaulding has taken the time to explain to you guys why the Dem party may not be working for a large segment of the population. She has made points that make sense and many just dismiss it out of hand because 1964 southern strategy something Trump is racist no way HRC is awful.

She told you the Dems aren’t listening and neither are you guys.

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The real problems started when we printed $10T dollars over the last 10 years and then went straight back to lax fiscal policies.

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They said the same thing about Republicans in 2012 and in 2008.

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Open It Up!

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Has anyone here addressed the fallacy regarding "identity politics"? Do you or anyone that has consistently Trumpeted this piece of B.S. care to address any of it? Or will you simply ignore it (as is often the case here) until there is an opportune time (typically when conversing with someone of similar ideology) about how Dems have wrongfully allied themselves with such things?

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Democratic Party will be fine. Hillary's gone. Isn't that the common narrative or have i missed something?

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Sometimes being right means being unpopular mike.

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Shots fired at LTG!

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If we nominate Trump we will get destroyed & we'll deserve it.- L Graham
I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.- DJT 2016
MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!- DJT 12/25/23

But as usual you seem to think that it's working for anyone other than the ridiculously wealthy.

But then again, you're here as usual, spouting the party line. I appreciate your consistency

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I don't disagree. I'm no fan of the Republicans and am not defending or supporting them here. I am saying what I think is wrong with the democratic party and why this last election was lost. ltg has been consistent in saying it's because people support Trump and I don't think it's correct or fair.

You feel the democratic party is headed in the right direction? Specifically this last election? You don't think the party is alienating people that once voted for it? You don't think it's caught up in Wall St or corporate America and is just as corrupt as the Republican Party?

The Latino and black vote was low in this election. I don't believe that was all voter suppression, some was choice. I believe there was a lot of disappointment in Clinton's and Obama's presidencies that showed in this election.

The posters here aren't thrilled with current feminism. How do you it's going over with the rest of the country specifically the rural areas in the midwest?

Hillary was viewed as more establishment, more Wall Street, more rich, more elitist, and more crooked than Trump. She was viewed less relatable, less honest, less human, less likable, and less humble.

I've always said it's only working for the wealthy. It's always only worked for the wealthy. Nobody has ever given a shit about the middle class or the poor. People knew that in 1964 it's now that some are figuring out the other side they went with doesn't care either.

Hillary also was a terrible campaigner.

Her one victory was aided heavily by her opponent dropping out due to a cancer diagnosis and the replacement still almost beat her.
She lost badly to a relative nobody that had to overcome far more in terms of "demographics" than she did.
She struggled to put away a guy for the Democratic nomination that literally wasn't a Democrat and gave up on even pretending he was ever one as soon as he lost. This was also while the Democrats ran out a few "generic white guy" types for her to take target practice against in debates.
She ran a horrible campaign against Trump and tried to run up the score in California rather than even visit swing states she lost even as Trump himself was expecting and hoping for a close loss.

It's possible that Hillary just wasn't going to win an election for President. I mean, when an older white woman runs for President and can't even win the "older white women" vote then there is a problem that goes far beyond people loved Trump.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There’s truth in that but that list could go on and on. Do you think Trump gives a rats ass about coal miners...Or any of the other blue color workers that flocked to his sermons? How about the deeply held views of the religious right? They’ll all take the votes and the money but very few listen to the message.

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If we nominate Trump we will get destroyed & we'll deserve it.- L Graham
I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.- DJT 2016
MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!- DJT 12/25/23

But it shouldn't mean that she is ganged up on and run off the board again for simply stating her opinion. And in this case, an opinion shared by MANY Dems as well.

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Spaulding,

The Democratic party has problems identifying it's base and previously its candidates, as illustrated by the clown pushed in Gingrich's old district in Georgia.

I've still never voted for a Clinton in a primary and remain disappointed in Obama. But in a general election, I can't vote for someone sponsored by the republican donor class who have nothing to offer other than free the wealthy and demonizing the coloreds.

As for how many here feel about the energized women marching, registering and running for office. I just don't care. They represent the energy that has clowns like Farenthold, Issa and hopefully that cockroach Ryan to go the hell away in loss/shame. It's what made me happy about the Virginia elections and hopefully a sign of things to come.

As far as Hillary goes, I worked in proximity to her over a year. She is one of the smartest, most goal oriented people that I've ever met. That she can be overly pragmatic and corporate never allowed me to vote for her or Bill when their nominations were never in question. But I remain distressed by progressives and women who continue to see her as a worse alternative to trump, or another of the often bigoted demagogues the republican party now calls leadership.

Or The people who oddly see her as less crooked than a shyster who routinely has to be sued or blackmailed when he just can't routinely file bankruptcy or for divorce.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.