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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:32 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
America wrote:
Less than 24 hours and we're already calling the dead cop an asshole. Did I not fucking call this?


Before anyone wets their pants over this, let me translate:

"Within 24 hours there was a nearly immediate reaction by some in this thread to discredit reports that the murdered cop was a 'good one'."

And yes, in response to a post about multiple interviews from people that knew the cop and how he conducted himself and his unit, immediately replying with "well, if he was an asshole, it's not like they're going to put that on the news the day he gets killed" is unquestionably attempting to discredit that reporting. It's shameful, you who have done it should be ashamed.

Stop doing your fake outrage bit. You're terrible at it.


Deflect your feelings of shame however you need to, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:40 am 
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Caller Bob rightly apologized so I'll drop it. But there are others in this thread who definitely feel the same way, and that is fucked up.

The "he was one of the good ones" line is annoying too. They are near-universally good ones. Most of you know this, its pretty much impossible to be a Chicagoan without knowing at least a few police officers. In Jefferson Park I would be shocked if CPD wasn't the largest employer, so I know a bunch. None of them are bad people.

I used to be infected by this shit ideology of "FUCK DA POLEESE *DROOL*" nonsense, especially in crunchy Oregon where nothing ever really happens. But I'm glad I grew out of it. These guys are tasked with fighting an impossible fight. This piece of shit who killed Bauer was arrested by them at least 4 times (chances are it was a lot more than that) and the entire system conspired to keep him on the street terrorizing the city. But they still chased him, still tried to bring him back in. Happens thousands of times a day all over the city. Cops risk their lives chasing people the system is intent on setting free because the courts and state's attorneys office are more concerned with appearing not-racist than doing their jobs. I dont know how you could really think the "good one"s are worthy of excepting.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:43 am 
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America wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
That just isn't how it works though. We don't sentence people based on what they could do in the future. If we did, we would have to build a lot more prisons and we already have a really high incarceration rate in this country.

If you want to be taken seriously then stop it with the liberal stuff.

Except at that point he was already CLEARLY a career criminal. If they couldn't put him away from life the least they could've done is not given him the absolute minimum sentence allowed by law. And community service for a two time felon convicted of battery and resisting arrest? Wtf is that shit?
Well, maybe we shouldn't fill the jails with first time non-violent drug offenders and we can jail armed robbers and people we predict will be cop killers for longer.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:45 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
After three felonies, the third one (not a victimless crime) that he got community service for!, it was time to put him away. No need for him to be out on the streets anymore. Was not going to contribute lawfully to society and at that point was simply a danger to society. "But its only drug possession"--no, its not. Its everything about this guys life that was leading to moment when he killed someone who spent a career protecting the city and left behind a wife and 13 year old daughter.
That just isn't how it works though. We don't sentence people based on what they could do in the future. If we did, we would have to build a lot more prisons and we already have a really high incarceration rate in this country.

If you want to be taken seriously then stop it with the liberal stuff.


Don't make me agree with America :lol: We do do this all the time. Look at even the simplest of offenses where having priors will amp up your punishment because you have a propensity to repeat. DUI, Domestic Violence and many more.
Not exactly. If we did, then we'd have much harsher sentences than we do for any violent crime. Why take the chance on ever releasing anyone who did an armed robbery? Lock them away forever.

Repeat offenders get jailed for longer stretches because we know it is more than just a one time mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:49 am 
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America wrote:
Caller Bob rightly apologized so I'll drop it. But there are others in this thread who definitely feel the same way, and that is fucked up.

The "he was one of the good ones" line is annoying too. They are near-universally good ones. Most of you know this, its pretty much impossible to be a Chicagoan without knowing at least a few police officers. In Jefferson Park I would be shocked if CPD wasn't the largest employer, so I know a bunch. None of them are bad people.

I used to be infected by this shit ideology of "FUCK DA POLEESE *DROOL*" nonsense, especially in crunchy Oregon where nothing ever really happens. But I'm glad I grew out of it. These guys are tasked with fighting an impossible fight. This piece of shit who killed Bauer was arrested by them at least 4 times (chances are it was a lot more than that) and the entire system conspired to keep him on the street terrorizing the city. But they still chased him, still tried to bring him back in. Happens thousands of times a day all over the city. Cops risk their lives chasing people the system is intent on setting free because the courts and state's attorneys office are more concerned with appearing not-racist than doing their jobs. I dont know how you could really think the "good one"s are worthy of excepting.
Even if 99% of cops are good ones, and I think that could very well be true, we need to stop protecting the 1% of bad cops who do terrible things and wrongfully shoot people for unjustifiable reasons. Earlier, you asked how I would feel if this cop had been my family member. What about if my family was killed holding a toy in the park by a police officer that "feared for their life"? The answer to both is I would want those who did wrong to face punishment for it. I am almost certain this guy is going to go to jail for the rest of his life. I'd have to question if the cop would even be convicted of anything besides a minor offense.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
After three felonies, the third one (not a victimless crime) that he got community service for!, it was time to put him away. No need for him to be out on the streets anymore. Was not going to contribute lawfully to society and at that point was simply a danger to society. "But its only drug possession"--no, its not. Its everything about this guys life that was leading to moment when he killed someone who spent a career protecting the city and left behind a wife and 13 year old daughter.
That just isn't how it works though. We don't sentence people based on what they could do in the future. If we did, we would have to build a lot more prisons and we already have a really high incarceration rate in this country.

If you want to be taken seriously then stop it with the liberal stuff.


Don't make me agree with America :lol: We do do this all the time. Look at even the simplest of offenses where having priors will amp up your punishment because you have a propensity to repeat. DUI, Domestic Violence and many more.
Not exactly. If we did, then we'd have much harsher sentences than we do for any violent crime. Why take the chance on ever releasing anyone who did an armed robbery? Lock them away forever.

Repeat offenders get jailed for longer stretches because we know it is more than just a one time mistake.


Hate crime laws, enhanced DUI punishments, and sex offender registries are all predicated on the idea that we have to punish possible recidivism now. The idea that we don't punish people because of what we think they will do is simply not true. Thinking it is moral or just is a different story, though.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:54 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Hate crime laws, enhanced DUI punishments, and sex offender registries are all predicated on the idea that we have to punish possible recidivism now. The idea that we don't punish people because of what we think they will do is simply not true. Thinking it is moral or just is a different story, though.
Hate crime laws: No.
Enhanced DUI punishments: No.
Sex Offender Registries: Yes, but in the concept of "lock them up because they are a danger to society" we would be doing much more than a registry to them.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:04 pm 
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It takes a complete lack of humanity to shoot another person in the face after subduing them in a fight.

I hope the officer's family finds peace and I hope the offender dies slow.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Even if 99% of cops are good ones, and I think that could very well be true, we need to stop protecting the 1% of bad cops who do terrible things and wrongfully shoot people for unjustifiable reasons. Earlier, you asked how I would feel if this cop had been my family member. What about if my family was killed holding a toy in the park by a police officer that "feared for their life"? The answer to both is I would want those who did wrong to face punishment for it. I am almost certain this guy is going to go to jail for the rest of his life. I'd have to question if the cop would even be convicted of anything besides a minor offense.

Here we go with the "well actually cops are the bad guys" talk. It was absolutely guaranteed someone would start what-abouting the wildly sensationalized stories of police shooting criminals in an effort to minimize the job police are asked to do.

99% is far too low a figure too. You're telling 1 out of every 100 police officers is a bad person? That's a lot of people. Almost 200 bad cops in the CPD alone according to you. Seems like a pretty shitty thing to say in a thread about a Chicago police officer killed trying to put a career criminal in jail where he belongs that 200 police in the city are actually bad people.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Hate crime laws, enhanced DUI punishments, and sex offender registries are all predicated on the idea that we have to punish possible recidivism now. The idea that we don't punish people because of what we think they will do is simply not true. Thinking it is moral or just is a different story, though.
Hate crime laws: No.
Enhanced DUI punishments: No.
Sex Offender Registries: Yes, but in the concept of "lock them up because they are a danger to society" we would be doing much more than a registry to them.


1. Yes, actually. That is the routine justification for punishing motive in this particular instance: Someone who steals bread because they're hungry will be satisfied, but someone who does so because of the shopkeeper's religion is likely to do it again. Hell, "badges and incidents [of slavery]" is the phrase still referenced by courts that uphold challenges to hate crime laws—enhanced punishments for "hate crimes" are alright because those crimes might still be tied to the institution of slavery.

2. Again, yes. Using punishments to "send a message" is quite clearly punishing possible future actions, and "sending a message" has been the rallying cry of MADD and all DUI reform in the last 25 years.

3. Glad we agree the government punishes possible future actions.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:16 pm 
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America wrote:
Here we go with the "well actually cops are the bad guys" talk. It was absolutely guaranteed someone would start what-abouting the wildly sensationalized stories of police shooting criminals in an effort to minimize the job police are asked to do.
Some cops clearly are bad guys, or are at least so bad at their job that they wrongfully kill someone while otherwise being a decent person.

America wrote:
99% is far too low a figure too. You're telling 1 out of every 100 police officers is a bad person? That's a lot of people. Almost 200 bad cops in the CPD alone according to you. Seems like a pretty shitty thing to say in a thread about a Chicago police officer killed trying to put a career criminal in jail where he belongs that 200 police in the city are actually bad people.
Probably. I'm thinking the general population has a higher than 1% population who are bad people. Cops would be no different even in a noble profession. The major point though is that when cops do wrongfully kill someone on the job they deserve to be punished for it. I think being a police officer is a noble profession and I don't think I could do it. That doesn't mean that if they shoot a kid holding a toy in a park that they just get to say "oops, my bad" and then go on with it.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Probably. I'm thinking the general population has a higher than 1% population who are bad people. Cops would be no different even in a noble profession.

This is so wrong I dont know where to start. Criminal record? Cant be a cop. Flunk a polygraph? Cant be a cop. Flunk psych? Cant be a cop. A lot of departments have board reviews, interviews, probationary periods too. If you start acting like a loon in the academy they can get rid of you. This isn't fucking Arby's, they call your references.

They weed out a colossal number of bad people in the hiring process. To suggest that a police department analogous to broader society is ignorant, stupid and wrong.

Quote:
The major point though is that when cops do wrongfully kill someone on the job they deserve to be punished for it. I think being a police officer is a noble profession and I don't think I could do it. That doesn't mean that if they shoot a kid holding a toy in a park that they just get to say "oops, my bad" and then go on with it.

Barely ever happens to begin with. If you're not a criminal the chances of you being killed a police officer are near zero. Maybe in a car accident.


Last edited by America on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
1. Yes, actually. That is the routine justification for punishing motive in this particular instance: Someone who steals bread because they're hungry will be satisfied, but someone who does so because of the shopkeeper's religion is likely to do it again. Hell, "badges and incidents [of slavery]" is the phrase still referenced by courts that uphold challenges to hate crime laws—enhanced punishments for "hate crimes" are alright because those crimes might still be tied to the institution of slavery.
No it isn't. The justification is that it is meant to inflict fear among a group of people rather than just an individual person, just like the difference between terrorism and murder.

Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
2. Again, yes. Using punishments to "send a message" is quite clearly punishing possible future actions, and "sending a message" has been the rallying cry of MADD and all DUI reform in the last 25 years.
It's not about sending a message but about the thought process of how someone gets a DUI and then gets more of them. If you get caught multiple times it is clear that you are not simply making a poor choice but you are actively choosing to do the action.

Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
3. Glad we agree the government punishes possible future actions.
You have to work really hard to get to that conclusion. To me, I view it kind of like probation or parole. You can live your life with no future punishment besides being on the list as long as you abide by the rules. Yes, you have to tell your neighbors and employers of your previous misdeed but if we honestly wanted to punish for future actions then everyone on the list would be in jail forever too.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
2. Again, yes. Using punishments to "send a message" is quite clearly punishing possible future actions, and "sending a message" has been the rallying cry of MADD and all DUI reform in the last 25 years.
It's not about sending a message but about the thought process of how someone gets a DUI and then gets more of them. If you get caught multiple times it is clear that you are not simply making a poor choice but you are actively choosing to do the action.

Ok someone demonstrate to me how this is different than any other criminal who's been in and out of prison.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:28 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Dude was killed wen the guy did the kill shot by standing over him and delivering the shot to the head point blank

dude didn't he ever watch zombieland? double tap that shit!

(as much as i joke, hey, despite my lifestyle being incompatible with them for many many years i still have a lot of respect for what CPD has to deal with (think about all the shit you don't even think about) and whenever i run into them nowadays i thank them for their service to the community. seriously, as an unemployed wannabe rapper i'd really have to up my game to darkside levels of success to potentially catch a bullet, and that's still like what, 1% of the chances these guys take every day just to try and pimpslap the populace upside the head like "what the fuck is wrong with you?" -- like seriously, who conducts a drug deal at the fucking thompson center? at least walk around the corner you numbnuts!)

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:29 pm 
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America wrote:
This is so wrong I dont know where to start. Criminal record? Cant be a cop. Flunk a polygraph? Cant be a cop. Flunk psych? Cant be a cop. A lot of departments have board reviews, interviews, probationary periods too. If you start acting like a loon in the academy they can get rid of you. This isn't fucking Arby's, they call your references.

They weed out a colossal number of bad people in the hiring process. The suggest that a police department analogous to broader society is ignorant, stupid and wrong.
There are bad people in every profession even ones that require significantly more scrutiny to get into. I mean, Elmhurst Steve brags about being at the top of his class as a cop and he's clearly a bad person who is proud to be a racist.

America wrote:
Barely ever happens to begin with. If you're not a criminal the chances of you being killed a police officer are near zero. Maybe in a car accident.
Even if it only happens 1 time a year in the whole country, it should be treated with the punishment that is deserved.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:31 pm 
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America wrote:
Criminal record? Cant be a cop. Flunk a polygraph? Cant be a cop. Flunk psych? Cant be a cop


have an IQ bordering on being retarded ? You can be a cop !


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:34 pm 
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So I guess only intelligent people can be good people. Interesting hypothesis.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:34 pm 
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America wrote:
So I guess only intelligent people can be good people. Interesting hypothesis.

You're proving that hypothesis to be correct.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
This is so wrong I dont know where to start. Criminal record? Cant be a cop. Flunk a polygraph? Cant be a cop. Flunk psych? Cant be a cop. A lot of departments have board reviews, interviews, probationary periods too. If you start acting like a loon in the academy they can get rid of you. This isn't fucking Arby's, they call your references.

They weed out a colossal number of bad people in the hiring process. The suggest that a police department analogous to broader society is ignorant, stupid and wrong.
There are bad people in every profession even ones that require significantly more scrutiny to get into. I mean, Elmhurst Steve brags about being at the top of his class as a cop and he's clearly a bad person who is proud to be a racist.

America wrote:
Barely ever happens to begin with. If you're not a criminal the chances of you being killed a police officer are near zero. Maybe in a car accident.
Even if it only happens 1 time a year in the whole country, it should be treated with the punishment that is deserved.

Steve is not a bad person. I hate him because he is a very annoying Cubs fans, but he isn't a bad person really. I think if you peered at the reality of crime in America you'd become quite the "racist" yourself. Shit, spend 12 hours at Newark airport and I dare you not to have one racist thought pop into your head.

I think Steve is very bad at putting his thoughts into words, but I don't think he'd harm anyone or actually do anything. MANY on this site bombard him constantly, me included, and he always keeps his cool.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:37 pm 
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America wrote:
So I guess only intelligent people can be good people. Interesting hypothesis.

don't you listen to bernstein? it's not just intelligence but it's the GOOD MONIED PEOPLE who populate the lower dish of the UC, you know, all the riff raff go up to the upper deck so they dont get their germs/diseases on the good doctors, lawyers, and of course societally-validated-rappers/actors/entertainers in the good seats.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
America wrote:
So I guess only intelligent people can be good people. Interesting hypothesis.

You're proving that hypothesis to be correct.

Says the pedo :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:39 pm 
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America wrote:
I think Steve is very bad at putting his thoughts into words, but I don't think he'd harm anyone or actually do anything. MANY on this site bombard him constantly, me included, and he always keeps his cool.


so in other words, he's full of shit just like you ?


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
America wrote:
I think Steve is very bad at putting his thoughts into words, but I don't think he'd harm anyone or actually do anything. MANY on this site bombard him constantly, me included, and he always keeps his cool.


so in other words, he's full of shit just like you ?

Uh I don't keep my cool.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:40 pm 
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America wrote:
Steve is not a bad person. I hate him because he is a very annoying Cubs fans, but he isn't a bad person really. I think if you peered at the reality of crime in America you'd become quite the "racist" yourself. Shit, spend 12 hours at Newark airport and I dare you not to have one racist thought pop into your head.
He proudly and openly proclaimed that he wouldn't hire black people to work for him as a painter. That has nothing to do with his former profession either. Just think about that. He's a guy that often wanted to be the face of the police on this board and he didn't care at all that his board persona was also being a proud racist.

Now, I'm sure a lot of cops aren't like Steve which is good. However, it's laughable to think that Steve is the only one who was like that or that there weren't worse people on the force than him.

America wrote:
I think Steve is very bad at putting his thoughts into words, but I don't think he'd harm anyone or actually do anything. MANY on this site bombard him constantly, me included, and he always keeps his cool.
That's quite a standard. I don't think he'd physically harm minorities!

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
America wrote:
Less than 24 hours and we're already calling the dead cop an asshole. Did I not fucking call this?


Before anyone wets their pants over this, let me translate:

"Within 24 hours there was a nearly immediate reaction by some in this thread to discredit reports that the murdered cop was a 'good one'."

And yes, in response to a post about multiple interviews from people that knew the cop and how he conducted himself and his unit, immediately replying with "well, if he was an asshole, it's not like they're going to put that on the news the day he gets killed" is unquestionably attempting to discredit that reporting. It's shameful, you who have done it should be ashamed.

This is pretty dumb and wrong but at least you also acknowledge America is incapable of expressing himself properly. Very sad that a grown man needs a translator on a message board.

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:59 pm 
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America wrote:
Steve is not a bad person. I hate him because he is a very annoying Cubs fans, but he isn't a bad person really. I think if you peered at the reality of crime in America you'd become quite the "racist" yourself. Shit, spend 12 hours at Newark airport and I dare you not to have one racist thought pop into your head.

I think Steve is very bad at putting his thoughts into words, but I don't think he'd harm anyone or actually do anything. MANY on this site bombard him constantly, me included, and he always keeps his cool.


This is the wrongest post in the history of the board. Even more wrong than Reader's beef sammich post and that was going to be hard to top.

Steve is a terrible person, with terrible thoughts, and has done terrible things.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
America wrote:
Steve is not a bad person. I hate him because he is a very annoying Cubs fans, but he isn't a bad person really. I think if you peered at the reality of crime in America you'd become quite the "racist" yourself. Shit, spend 12 hours at Newark airport and I dare you not to have one racist thought pop into your head.
He proudly and openly proclaimed that he wouldn't hire black people to work for him as a painter. That has nothing to do with his former profession either. Just think about that. He's a guy that often wanted to be the face of the police on this board and he didn't care at all that his board persona was also being a proud racist.

Now, I'm sure a lot of cops aren't like Steve which is good. However, it's laughable to think that Steve is the only one who was like that or that there weren't worse people on the force than him.

America wrote:
I think Steve is very bad at putting his thoughts into words, but I don't think he'd harm anyone or actually do anything. MANY on this site bombard him constantly, me included, and he always keeps his cool.
That's quite a standard. I don't think he'd physically harm minorities!

Look I can't know every one of the guys 5000 or so posts, and I have an immense dislike for him, but he's not a bad person. I don't think anyone on this site really is.


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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He proudly and openly proclaimed that he wouldn't hire black people to work for him as a painter.


I wouldn't be quick to hire black painters either after the debut of those Obama portraits

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 Post subject: Re: CPD Officer Killed
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:03 pm 
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America wrote:
Look I can't know every one of the guys 5000 or so posts, and I have an immense dislike for him, but he's not a bad person. I don't think anyone on this site really is.
So, now that you know that Steve proudly, and likely against the law if someone were to report him, proudly and openly refuses to hire black people to paint for him, does it change your opinion on him?

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