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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:04 pm 
Remove SomeGuy and Brick and this is some great stuff.

Dennis (or Jaw I forget which made the comment) what is the issue with the lower down payments? (I can expand if you like once I'm not typing on a phone)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:06 pm 
denisdman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I don't do friends and foe lists. I try not to feed trolls. My comments are well supported.
You ducked my comments and instead just called me an asshole. What a shame if you think that is your supporting yourself well.


I completely ducked your comment solely because I didn't want to engage you in what would end up in a meaningless discussion as per your usual protocol on these boards. You twist and turn things, throw out endless questions, and generally pollute the board with your devil's advocate approach to life. I am not sure you stand for anything except to the extent that you can argue your victim into submission. I refuse to play that game.

I love a good intellectual discussion. I also love the silliness and guy humor that persists on these boards. You offer neither. While your reply to me is innocent, I know exactly the dark path I would be going down in responding to it. Any other poster would have had a nice retort from me. In that respect it was a fair question that I am normally glad to answer. But with you, I suspect the question and comment were not genuine. You simply wanted to engage me in a discussion for no other reason than you have nothing else in your life.

I hope that helps. At least your troll belly will be fed for a while.

Post of the Year contest......OVAH!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:09 pm 
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Chus wrote:
Classic BRick. He's got 'em running in circles.
I appreciate your support in this difficult time.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:17 pm 
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Chus wrote:
Classic BRick. He's got 'em running in circles.
I appreciate your support in this difficult time.

He was being sarcastic.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:25 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Jesus H. Christ, denisdman has BRick scrambling for the exits!
Still here....

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:26 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Jesus H. Christ, denisdman has BRick scrambling for the exits!
Still here....

He does that. You just kind of have to take it with a small grain of salt...

Image

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bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:39 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Chus wrote:
Classic BRick. He's got 'em running in circles.
I appreciate your support in this difficult time.

He was being sarcastic.


Put that one in your Manometer and smoke it, BRick!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:46 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Jesus H. Christ, denisdman has BRick scrambling for the exits!
Still here....

He does that. You just kind of have to take it with a small grain of salt...

Image
It's nice that some people still think I'm worthy of a response.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:50 pm 
SomeGuy wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Chus wrote:
Classic BRick. He's got 'em running in circles.
I appreciate your support in this difficult time.

He was being sarcastic.


Put that one in your Manometer and smoke it, BRick!

It's fun watching the professional trolls heads explode.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:52 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
It's fun watching the professional trolls heads explode.

Laterally implore...
LITERALLY EXPLODE!
Yes... that.

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bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:57 pm 
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I wasn't being sarcastic. Nobody elicits a response quite like BRick.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Chus wrote:
I wasn't being sarcastic. Nobody elicits a response quite like BRick.
Horray for Chus! Boo for SomeBeardownGuy!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:03 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Chus wrote:
Classic BRick. He's got 'em running in circles.
I appreciate your support in this difficult time.

He was being sarcastic.

No he wasn't. Chus is a long time Brick guy.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:07 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
No he wasn't. Chus is a long time Brick guy.
That was before Denny rocked me to the core with his hot take.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:55 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Remove SomeGuy and Brick and this is some great stuff.

Dennis (or Jaw I forget which made the comment) what is the issue with the lower down payments? (I can expand if you like once I'm not typing on a phone)


The problem is that when you only put a tiny amount down, you increase leverage to dangerous levels. A 5% down payment means 20-1 leverage, a 3% down payment is 33-1 leverage. Let's say you have 5% down (20-1 leverage) on a $100k condo. If the value of your condo goes up $1,000, you didn't just make a profit of 1%...you made a profit of 20%. And the same goes for a loss in value of 1% or $1,000...your actual loss is 20%. If the value dropped just 5%, certainly not hard to imagine, your ENTIRE investment is wiped out (5% x 20-1 leverage = 100%). During the peak of the madness (prior to the meltdown), some people were allowed to put ZERO down, which means infinite leverage.

The implication in giving such loans (and therefore the fallacy) is that housing prices will always go up. But as with any asset, whether it's stocks, gold, or real estate, the price can go down. And as I showed above, if you have very little equity, such as 3%, a very tiny drop in prices puts you almost immediately under water. Now if it were just the lenders/banks who were making these loans, with no government guarantee, I wouldn't have as much of an issue...let the banks making risky/stupid loans fail. But when there is a guarantee by the federal government, the costs inevitably fall back to the rest of us.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:01 pm 
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Jaw, you complete me. Thank you.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:46 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
The implication in giving such loans (and therefore the fallacy) is that housing prices will always go up. But as with any asset, whether it's stocks, gold, or real estate, the price can go down. And as I showed above, if you have very little equity, such as 3%, a very tiny drop in prices puts you almost immediately under water. Now if it were just the lenders/banks who were making these loans, with no government guarantee, I wouldn't have as much of an issue...let the banks making risky/stupid loans fail. But when there is a guarantee by the federal government, the costs inevitably fall back to the rest of us.
The issue was more with the variable rates. Besides it being a situation that costs you more money, there is not a whole lot inherently wrong with around 5% down. The more you can put down the better but it is clearly manageable. They even built in PMI to protect more against the higher risk. If someone is buying a house or condo to live in for 20 years then it is fine. The homeowner would be smart to pay above and beyond that to get rid of PMI though.

The problem comes in when the rate changes during the loan. Obviously, people could only afford the payment with the low rate so you are literally giving them a loan they cannot afford. Most of these people would not have qualified for a fixed rate at what they ended up paying. That's why they didn't take the more stable and better fixed rate mortgage. Then, when housing prices crashed you put them in a situation where they had a payment they couldn't afford on a house that they couldn't sell without taking even more of a loss.

I'd make all mortgages be fixed rate, but you know, personal responsibility is all we should need so let's not regulate it because the actions of colluding banks don't put us in bad situations.

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