Interesting site. I assume it is fairly accurate.

http://qz.com/74271/income-tax-rates-since-1913/

To me, it seems like our taxes aren't really that high right now compared to the past.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But Scorehead said that taxes are higher now than ever before!

_________________

There are many more taxes other than just income tax. But if you feel that you are undertaxed, send Barry and Bruce a check!

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

My taxes are higher than ever before.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

What I find interesting is that the claim the rich don't pay doesn't seem true. I start with my income from mid 80's on and click all the steps up to the max income. I see the effective rate go up not down. Of course, that is only taxable income not the right offs etc.

_________________

Maybe some guys here are making the same as they made 25 years ago?

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Facts just don't seem to matter to you.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I think it is more important to look at what those income levels used to pay and what they do now.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The best way to view it is as a percentage of GDP. The link below will show that. By looking at rates, you ignore the rules where those rates are applied, meaning the deductions allowed, what income is subject to what tax, and the thresholds at which the individual rates are applied. As you can see from the table in the link, the Federal tax take has been stable for a long time with variations coming from major changes in tax law and economic output (i.e. it dipped a lot in the great recession). What is not shown in this table is the accompanying rise of state and local taxes as the data presented are at the Federal level, and property and sales taxes have mainly risen over this time period.


http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts ... ?Docid=205

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

What does that have to do with how much your tax rate is?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So there aren't any other taxes besides the income tax?

But anyways, historically, taxes have been around ~20% of GDP.

You are right. Seemed pretty unfair prior to Reagan.

_________________

...and pretty successful.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

In what period of time and what do you define as successful?

I think we did pretty well post-WWII.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Overall tax burden. Only goes back to 1980 though.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... tml?ref=us

_________________
Soccer 1,2,3
Spanish Honor Society 1,2,3,4
Forensics 1,2,3,4

"Smiles with Nostrils"

"...no Hmong, go find some blacks"

Good IRS data with 2011 being the soonest year they have released. This shows the percent of returns in each marginal bracket on page 6:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/14insprb ... shares.pdf


I can't paste the table, but here are some interesting facts from it:

25.3% of filed returns paid 0% tax.
21.1% fell into the 15% marginal rate and paid 14.3% of all income taxes
30.4% fell into the 25% marginal rate and paid 27.2% of all income taxes
1.2% fell into the 33% marginal rate and paid 10.7% of all income taxes
0.6% fell into the highest brackets and paid 28.4% of all income taxes

The folks in 25% and higher marginal brackets paid 79.2% of all income tax, while they represented 21% of all returns and 68.6% of all taxable income. So 21% of the folks earn 68.6% of taxable income and pay about 79% of all income tax. Keep in mind this is not earned income but taxable income (i.e. after deductions).

There are other brackets I left out.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

At least one reason to look at the overall is that the Feds have been not raising the tax rate per se. What they do like to do is mandate a hell of a lot of things. This forces the tax burden at state and local levels upward without them having to get reelected after a fed tax hike.

_________________

Rick said that our tax rate is lower today, which is true. Scorehead replied with, "yeah, but" as usual.

Nice try. A for effort.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I'm still not sure what your point is.

The idea is to figure out what a person pays now, and what they would have paid historically in order to gauge how overtaxed they are.

Of course the rich pay most of the gross taxes. They have the most money.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Reagan definitely helped the higher income citizens, no question.

The question is if that policy was a good one.

I think we need a general Reagan thread. Everything seemingly goes back to him.

Not a good comparison.

Post-War saw the world in ruin and we faced zero competition globally and 5 or so years of pent up demand. Reconstruction for West Germany didn't end until the 1980's.

High marginal rates and their effects aren't comparable to today for that reason as well as it was a very different tax code with a many, many more holes, shelters, places to hide and such.

It's not a comparison. Pittmike said the rates were unfair prior to Reagan. I pointed out that was an incredibly successful time in our history so I'd say the "unfairness" of it doesn't really seem to have hurt.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Good stuff.

Id love to hear your opinion of Reagan in general and a ranking of Presidents in our lifetimes (or before)

Fair is a relative term anyway.


If people suffer from social programs being cut, that probably doesnt seem fair to them but it probably does seem fair to the upper income people that are paying less taxes.

I would like to see the following:
If we consider FICA taxes as income taxes (they are), how does this break down. The FICA taxes don't get reduced for most deductions, meaning they kick in at the full 7.65% right from dollar one. How does the % of "Income"+FICA taxes paid by the top bracket compare to the total share of income earned by that bracket? And how does it compare to the total share of accumulated wealth? I personally pay in total income taxes (including Federal, FICA, State, and County) about 33.7% of taxable income, but I am only in the 15% marginal federal bracket. Considering the SS component of the FICA taxes phases out at a certain income level and that state/local taxes tend to be flat, it isn't that much less of a percentage than someone at the top bracket in a similar situation.

I don't know the answers to these questions but I think they would paint a more accurate picture of the federal tax burden. The complete picture would have to include state taxes and fees, but that would vary tremendously by state and be difficult to assemble.

Further, simply looking at percentage of income paid in taxes is somewhat misleading in that it ignores the economic principle of diminishing marginal utility. I would like to see the average lost utility by bracket due to taxes.

_________________
Look over there! A dry ice factory. A good place to get some thinking done.
Did I forget to mention, forget to mention Memphis? Home of Elvis and the ancient Greeks.

"Fair" is just a good way of saying "I want to pay less taxes".

The fact is that the tax rates for pretty much everyone is at or near the low end of historical tax burdens. I'm sure we'd all love to pay 10% in taxes but it just isn't realistic.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

a monkey living for more than 9 days following a head transplant

That's a pretty high bar.

Does anyone have the overall tax burden numbers for Illinois?

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan