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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:23 am 
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I think the GOP will lose the election more than the DEMs will win...here's why...

1. The Republicans had a layup last election...the best they could come up with was Mitt Romney. Maybe Mitt is a nice guy and intelligent, but he has the appeal of a doorknob. They'll struggle to come up with a candidate with any kind of appeal. Jeb is a Bush...that's a loss...Walker does not have the Presidential Charisma. He'll come off as a weird, scary whack job to the rest of the world. Christie's 5 minutes appear to be up and I fear there's skeletons in that closet. I don't see the GOP putting forward a legit candidate.
2. Despite his blatantly obvious failures with the economy, Obama will leave office unscarred. The incoming DEM candidate will not have to be concerned about having no ties to Obama. Obama's perception with the average, uninformed voter is likely neutral.
3. The Republican party in general is an absolute mess. They cannot decide if they want to fight the moral / Jesus battle or be fiscally conservative. In the end, a fiscal conservative may prevail but they won't be able to help themselves getting into the moral Jesus, abortion trap to appeal to the South and they'll lose any middle of the road swing votes.
4. The DEMS will always have the advantage of Hollywood and the major media networks in their corner.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:33 am 
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Not sure what advantage Hollywood gives Dhims in the media diaspora climate of today.

American Sniper--the most Repug film in ages--the #1 box office film of 2014: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=2014

Faux News gets like 10x the viewers CNN and MSNBC combined.

It's tactics and ground-game. Dems have it, Repugs can't--so far--be arsed to play it, or IT.

It's tough to find IT types who are any good and who are Republican. Hell, it's tough to find decent IT guys at all these days.

If Romney had had Obama's IT/data team and ground-game in 2012...Romney wins.


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:39 am 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
I think the GOP will lose the election more than the DEMs will win...here's why...

1. The Republicans had a layup last election....

I think people oversell this. You would have thought 04 would be a layup for Dems too according to approval ratings but it wasnt.

You have to be REAL bad or the guy challenging has to be REAL good to upset an incumbent.


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:48 am 
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Obama is the most likeable political figure in my lifetime. Only Bill Clinton comes close. When it comes down to voting, are you really going against Obama for a guy who is in the 1 percent of the 1 percenters?

Then, you have to wait a few months and you can once again realize he is doing an average at best job.

Hillary won't have the same level of likability factor. I think you'll see Bill Clinton featured heavily as soon as she has a real competitor.

Drawing grand conclusions on Obama's reelection would be like drawing grand conclusions based on GW's reelection.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:00 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
I think the GOP will lose the election more than the DEMs will win...here's why...

1. The Republicans had a layup last election....

I think people oversell this. You would have thought 04 would be a layup for Dems too according to approval ratings but it wasnt.

.


Unemployment in 2004 was 5.4%
Gallon of gas: $2.00

Unemployment in 2012: 7.7% (crucial win for the administration, nudging it down below 8% by September and down to 7.7% before the vote)
Gallon of gas; $3.75


Unemployment is the more important indicator ( as a proxy for general econmic heath and outlook ). And in both cases the trend turned out to favor the incumbent--unemployment was falling going into the November election and continued to fall in the months/years after.

Taking unemployment from 8.7% in November 2011 to 7.7% in November 2012--huge for Obama.


Image

2008's a great example the other way--5.0% unemployment when the general campaign starts and 6.7% by the time voters pull the levers rising up to 8% right after the first of the year. Incumbent party gets tossed.


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:24 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Hillary won't have the same level of likability factor. I think you'll see Bill Clinton featured heavily as soon as she has a real competitor.

I kinda think that the country is still to sexist to elect a female.

I guess the polls say otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:28 am 
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Mike Ditka would have beat O'Bama and this conversation probably would not exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:29 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Hillary won't have the same level of likability factor. I think you'll see Bill Clinton featured heavily as soon as she has a real competitor.

I kinda think that the country is still to sexist to elect a female.

I guess the polls say otherwise.
Yup. Just look how unfairly Sarah Palin was treated.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:32 am 
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I thought Geraldine Ferraro was treated OK but that was a lifetime ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:33 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Hillary won't have the same level of likability factor. I think you'll see Bill Clinton featured heavily as soon as she has a real competitor.

I kinda think that the country is still to sexist to elect a female.

I guess the polls say otherwise.
Yup. Just look how unfairly Sarah Palin was treated.

She didn't do herself any favors.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:33 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Hillary won't have the same level of likability factor. I think you'll see Bill Clinton featured heavily as soon as she has a real competitor.

I kinda think that the country is still to sexist to elect a female.

I guess the polls say otherwise.
Yup. Just look how unfairly Sarah Palin was treated.

Im not sure if you're joking or not.

But yeah, it seems like sexism is a more common thing than racism. (talking quantity, not the substance of the hate which is still very strong with racists)


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:34 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Hillary won't have the same level of likability factor. I think you'll see Bill Clinton featured heavily as soon as she has a real competitor.

I kinda think that the country is still to sexist to elect a female.

I guess the polls say otherwise.
Yup. Just look how unfairly Sarah Palin was treated.

She didn't do herself any favors.

Before the general public knew anything about her idiocy the first thought by many was "I'd hit it"


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:36 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
She didn't do herself any favors.
I'm half joking, but I don't remember most of the dumb things that other losing Vice Presidents said years later.

Hillary does get the same treatment, some of which is deserved, and others that isn't. I'm a guy that really hopes she loses too.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:36 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Mike Ditka would have beat O'Bama and this conversation probably would not exist.


Ditka would have gotten crushed.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:37 am 
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She is still hot and it's always my first thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:22 am 
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Sarah Palin is probably the most bizarre American political figure of the last 50 years. I mean, wtf was that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:31 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:57 am 
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America wrote:
Sarah Palin is probably the most bizarre American political figure of the last 50 years. I mean, wtf was that.


I agree.
I also am with you in that I'd still hit that in a heartbeat.

Geraldine Ferraro was a DEM, so she got kid gloves...see Biden, Joseph.

Obama pulled off the a similar image as Clinton...they both came across as likeable, human, and "regular" Americans.

George W. Bush beat John Friggin' Kerry....on his re-election campaign. Kerry was about as personable as Mitt Romney.

Unemployment, gas prices, and other economic factors will be irrelevant...the GOP will put up a candidate that has no appeal to the middle of the road voter and lose.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:29 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
...the GOP will put up a candidate that has no appeal to the middle of the road voter and lose.

Agreed.

Maybe because their version of a centrist would too closely resemble W?


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:03 pm 
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W's only problem is that he couldn't speak in public...well, that and he's a Republican. Other than that, there wasn't anything unlikeable about him.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:12 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
W's only problem is that he couldn't speak in public...well, that and he's a Republican. Other than that, there wasn't anything unlikeable about him.

Right, but that's what Im saying. The likeable republican ended up being W. Maybe the worry is a likeable republican would make people think "Oh great, another W"


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:25 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
Obama pulled off the a similar image as Clinton...they both came across as likeable, human, and "regular" Americans.

What? Obama came across as Martin Luther King reborn. Remember how everyone fainted when he spoke on the campaign trail?

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:55 pm 
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cept when the unlikeable bush faced off against the not that well known kerry, the economy was the determining factor. as it has been in every presidential race going back, back, back. and the unlikeable Bush thumped the not disagreeable Kerry.

and even if Kerry had been a combo Oprah, Clay Aiken and Jeter, unlikeable Bush still wins in 2004. People vote their pocketbooks. Always have, always will.

if unemployment is still at 9% in November 2012--Repugs could've run Putin-Jong-un ticket and thumped Obama. Just ask the agreeable Jimmy Carter--who lost to the at that time seemingly "frightening" ex-actor. The hagiographic view we have of Reagan today is not anything like the scary warmonger many perceived Reagan to be in 1980.

And unemployment is just a proxy for general economic health; which the trend and not the absolute number is what you look at to see if the incumbent candidate/party retains or loses office.

Like Obama, Reagan wins re-election, handily, with an unemployment level not much different than what it was when he took office. but the trend both times favored those 2 candidates.

What does it mean for 2016?

Reagan, right before the campaign for 1984 began, called Paul Volcker into his office and lectured the Fed chairman about not raising interest rates too much, too fast right before the election. "Pulling the string", Reagan called the Fed's action of boosting rates and thereby tamping down economic activity and, more importantly for Volcker and his bondholder bosses on Wall St, inflation.

Volcker, if iirc, boosted rates some, but maybe not as much as he might have otherwise. And he pretty much left rates alone until after the election--at which point, at the urging of Martha Seger, the Fed begins cutting rates and the Reagan recovery really takes off. Reagan prolly would've appreciated Volcker cutting rates before the election, but maybe Volcker took Reagan's "hands off" remonstration literally.

Yellen's signaling suggests a mild rate bump--quarter point over the rest of this year. And, despite the seemingly low unemployment rate, the low workforce participation rate means that the economy is unlikely to overheat and drive up wages and prices. Yellen, while at the SF Fed, predicted a protracted recession and slow recovery. Expect Yellen to error on the side of not raising rates.

All of which should add up to the Democrat retaining the White House in 2016.

President Elizabeth Warren.


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Obama pulled off the a similar image as Clinton...they both came across as likeable, human, and "regular" Americans.

What? Obama came across as Martin Luther King reborn. Remember how everyone fainted when he spoke on the campaign trail?



guessing this likeability factor is one man's poison, another man's mead. Obama and Bush were dipping into negative approval ratings in the run-ups to their re-elections.

Dubya/Dumya was virulently disliked by more people than liked him--Bush's approval rating dips below 50% summer 2004 and stays there for the rest of his Presidency.

He had his core supporters; but by 2004, Bush is getting pilloried nightly on the Daily Show, Letterman etc.

And by Summmer 2004, President Obama is already on the scene--spreading hope and change all over the DNC that Summer. And being slobbered over by Jon Stewart and Chris Matthews et al.

Bush wins re-election in 2004 for one reason and one reason only: the economy was white-hot and getting hotter.


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
cept when the unlikeable bush faced off against the not that well known kerry, the economy was the determining factor. as it has been in every presidential race going back, back, back. and the unlikeable Bush thumped the not disagreeable Kerry.

and even if Kerry had been a combo Oprah, Clay Aiken and Jeter, unlikeable Bush still wins in 2004. People vote their pocketbooks. Always have, always will.

if unemployment is still at 9% in November 2012--Repugs could've run Putin-Jong-un ticket and thumped Obama. Just ask the agreeable Jimmy Carter--who lost to the at that time seemingly "frightening" ex-actor. The hagiographic view we have of Reagan today is not anything like the scary warmonger many perceived Reagan to be in 1980.

And unemployment is just a proxy for general economic health; which the trend and not the absolute number is what you look at to see if the incumbent candidate/party retains or loses office.

Like Obama, Reagan wins re-election, handily, with an unemployment level not much different than what it was when he took office. but the trend both times favored those 2 candidates.

What does it mean for 2016?

Reagan, right before the campaign for 1984 began, called Paul Volcker into his office and lectured the Fed chairman about not raising interest rates too much, too fast right before the election. "Pulling the string", Reagan called the Fed's action of boosting rates and thereby tamping down economic activity and, more importantly for Volcker and his bondholder bosses on Wall St, inflation.

Volcker, if iirc, boosted rates some, but maybe not as much as he might have otherwise. And he pretty much left rates alone until after the election--at which point, at the urging of Martha Seger, the Fed begins cutting rates and the Reagan recovery really takes off. Reagan prolly would've appreciated Volcker cutting rates before the election, but maybe Volcker took Reagan's "hands off" remonstration literally.

Yellen's signaling suggests a mild rate bump--quarter point over the rest of this year. And, despite the seemingly low unemployment rate, the low workforce participation rate means that the economy is unlikely to overheat and drive up wages and prices. Yellen, while at the SF Fed, predicted a protracted recession and slow recovery. Expect Yellen to error on the side of not raising rates.

All of which should add up to the Democrat retaining the White House in 2016.

President Elizabeth Warren.


While generally true I don't think this was remotely true in 2004. Without 9/11 Bush would not have even sniffed a second term. I think he was already referred to as an accidental president like 30 days into his term, and had generally revealed himself to me a mildly retarded lightweight. After 9/11, he was able to avoid blame and stand on rubble looking competent. Plus, the economy tanked after 9/11, though not as bad as it did in 2008.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:16 pm 
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The economy under Bush from 2003-2005 was the best it's been in the last 30+ years--those 3 years under Dubya even beat the Go-Go Dot Com gold rush days of Clinton's 2nd term:

Image

by 2004, after his premature "Mission Accomplished" PR stunt, Bush had squandered whatever 9/11 juice he had. The war in Iraq wasn't over, the rest of the world now hated us and he was getting us deeper into Afghanistan.

Yep, the economy dips early in Bush's first term.....at it did in Reagan's first term ,as it did in Clinton's first term....as it did in Obama's first term.....

notice a trend? Bad economy early in the first term followeed by a reccovery going into re-election and the incumbent prevails.


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:18 pm 
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reagan oversaw the government spending bubble while W oversaw the housing bubble.

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
The economy under Bush from 2003-2005 was the best it's been in the last 30+ years--those 3 years under Dubya even beat the Go-Go Dot Com gold rush days of Clinton's 2nd term:

Image

by 2004, after his premature "Mission Accomplished" PR stunt, Bush had squandered whatever 9/11 juice he had. The war in Iraq wasn't over, the rest of the world now hated us and he was getting us deeper into Afghanistan.

Yep, the economy dips early in Bush's first term.....at it did in Reagan's first term ,as it did in Clinton's first term....as it did in Obama's first term.....

notice a trend? Bad economy early in the first term followeed by a reccovery going into re-election and the incumbent prevails.


Those numbers can't be right. These are from the World Bank.

2001 1.0% $10,621.8 $44,687
2002 1.8% $10,977.5 $44,996
2003 2.8% $11,510.7 $46,560
2004 3.8% $12,274.9 $47,800

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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
reagan oversaw the government spending bubble while W oversaw the housing bubble.


I would say it was more of the beginning of the credit bubble rather than govt spending bubble. The first glimpses of what wizardry could be done after Nixon closed the gold window.

But your point is well taken, Hatchetman!


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 Post subject: Re: Ted Cruz 2016
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:40 pm 
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both sets of numbers demonstrate the same thing: economy was bad during the early part of Dubya's first term but had heated up to the point where unemployment would approach what economists consider full employment nowadays. Image

one set might be inflation adjusted, nominal vs real. the inflation adjusted numbers actually make the economic jump from 2001 to 2004 look even better.


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