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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:28 pm 
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Working on part two of Robert Caro's multi-volume LBJ biography. I enjoyed The Path to Power despite it only covering the younger years of LBJ. The amount of scheming, plotting, and ingratiating actions undertaken by Johnson, even as a kid, is staggering. Caro keeps you interested despite the endless asides into Texas politics and the various other players (Sam Rayburn, the Brown brothers, etc.). The Hill country of Texas is its own character. I'm about halfway through the second part, Means of Ascent, and it's setting up the battle for the Senate seat in 1948 between two individuals with contrasting personalities (Johnson and Coke Stevenson). I've already ordered up part three!


Been reading a ton of Vietnam War stuff lately. The tangential bits I learn about Johnson are not flattering.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:18 pm 
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Just started the Picture of Dorian Gray. Three chapters in, and it is solid.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:31 pm 
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When was the last time you read Stephen King's The Shining? Goddamnit if that's not my all-time favorite book. It's as entertaining as hell, but with each new read, I encounter some new subtlety. King's writing is full of stereotypical characters, but this one (in the case of at least three characters) goes deeper than that. Unfortunately, I have a lot in common with Jack Torrance (minus the murderousness).

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:36 am 
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it's almost King's autobiography.

I still don't see anything topping "The Stand" and "The Long Walk" as far as favorites from King.


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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:20 am 
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about 1/3 into Bing West's The Village. May have to abort. reading about all the killing and horrors of war you go numb to it after a while. not a good place to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:45 am 
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W_Z wrote:
it's almost King's autobiography.

I still don't see anything topping "The Stand" and "The Long Walk" as far as favorites from King.

along with 11-22-63

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:42 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
it's almost King's autobiography.

I still don't see anything topping "The Stand" and "The Long Walk" as far as favorites from King.


I'm an unapologetic King fan, I don't care if its not real literature, I love his style. I read The Stand probably once a year. I've read the DT series 3 times?? maybe 4.

The Long Walk is fantastic. His novellas and short stories are usually all good. My only knock on him is that he can't write an ending. When it comes to novellas and short stories, he seems better equipped to finish those off satisfactorily.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:39 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
W_Z wrote:
it's almost King's autobiography.

I still don't see anything topping "The Stand" and "The Long Walk" as far as favorites from King.


I'm an unapologetic King fan, I don't care if its not real literature

Harold Bloom said: "Stephen King is beneath the notice of any serious reader who has experienced Proust, Joyce, Henry James, Faulkner and all the other masters of the novel.”

Shove it up your ass, Bloom.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:23 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
W_Z wrote:
it's almost King's autobiography.

I still don't see anything topping "The Stand" and "The Long Walk" as far as favorites from King.


I'm an unapologetic King fan, I don't care if its not real literature

Harold Bloom said: "Stephen King is beneath the notice of any serious reader who has experienced Proust, Joyce, Henry James, Faulkner and all the other masters of the novel.”

Shove it up your ass, Bloom.


His name is Harold. His opinion is invalid.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:29 pm 
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I'm in the middle of the fifth book of The Expanse, Nemesis Games and it is really good. It feels like these books are getting better as they progress in the series.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:32 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
W_Z wrote:
it's almost King's autobiography.

I still don't see anything topping "The Stand" and "The Long Walk" as far as favorites from King.


I'm an unapologetic King fan, I don't care if its not real literature, I love his style. I read The Stand probably once a year. I've read the DT series 3 times?? maybe 4.

The Long Walk is fantastic. His novellas and short stories are usually all good. My only knock on him is that he can't write an ending. When it comes to novellas and short stories, he seems better equipped to finish those off satisfactorily.


I read the Dark Tower stuff all the time, particularly the first 4 books. Those are really fantastic.
Insomnia, The Dark Half, Needful Things, The Stand, It. I love them all.

I like most of the novellas. I wore out 3 copies of Four Past Midnight.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
I read the Dark Tower stuff all the time, particularly the first 4 books. Those are really fantastic.
Insomnia, The Dark Half, Needful Things, The Stand, It. I love them all.

I like most of the novellas. I wore out 3 copies of Four Past Midnight.

I think I've said it here somewhere but Wizard and Glass is the best thing he wrote. I really think he could have written a few interesting stories about what happened after W&G and before The Gunslinger.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:03 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
W_Z wrote:
it's almost King's autobiography.

I still don't see anything topping "The Stand" and "The Long Walk" as far as favorites from King.


I'm an unapologetic King fan, I don't care if its not real literature, I love his style. I read The Stand probably once a year. I've read the DT series 3 times?? maybe 4.

The Long Walk is fantastic. His novellas and short stories are usually all good. My only knock on him is that he can't write an ending. When it comes to novellas and short stories, he seems better equipped to finish those off satisfactorily.


I read the Dark Tower stuff all the time, particularly the first 4 books. Those are really fantastic.
Insomnia, The Dark Half, Needful Things, The Stand, It. I love them all.

I like most of the novellas. I wore out 3 copies of Four Past Midnight.

Four Past Midnight has some of his best writing....he's good with the novellas....

His short story "Autopsy Room Four" (which I just read) is hysterical--and anxiety-provoking. Worth the read!

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:00 am 
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W_Z wrote:
it's almost King's autobiography.

I still don't see anything topping "The Stand" and "The Long Walk" as far as favorites from King.


Agreed, those are my two favorite Stephen King stories. #3 would be Running Man, so much better than the movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:05 am 
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formerlyknownas wrote:

His short story "Autopsy Room Four" (which I just read) is hysterical--and anxiety-provoking. Worth the read!


:lol: :lol: rubber gloves bro

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:07 am 
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Just finished reading the draft of Miracle Schmiracle, it was fantastic!

What is Miracle Schmiracle you ask? Only the greatest book ever written about the 2013 Maccabei Games underdog Gold medal winning USA old man hockey team. No, I am not joking. There really is a book. One of the guys on the team, a rabbi from Arizona, has a buddy who is a writer. He decided to follow us around for the year and then write a book about it. Finally finished it earlier in the year, I just got a copy of the draft. I don't think he has a publishing deal yet, but if/when that happens I'll be happy to autograph any copies (limit 3 per person).

Book is great, but obviously I have some bias. Anxious to see if it sparks the interest of anyone who wasn't connected to the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:11 am 
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It doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:25 am 
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IMU wrote:
It doesn't.



Gonna bookmark this so you can eat your words after you've blazed through the novel in one sitting.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:25 pm 
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Well I finished that terrible Michael Lewis book, the Undoing Project. I wanted a change of pace. I decided to go with something I always wanted to learn, that is computer programming. I downloaded the Self Taught Programmer by Cory Althoff. It had good reviews.

I can't say I am addicted yet, but I am really enjoying learning how to program.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty, by Charles Leerhsen.

“The source of my trouble with Cobb was simple,” Donie Bush, one of Cobb’s former Tigers teammates, explained. “He expected me to do the things he did, and I just couldn’t be so perfect. Who could?” Leerhsen’s engaging “exhumation” of Cobb and his reputation reveals that the man who most people today regard as “the most hated man in baseball” was a complex person whose relationships with his teammates, the fans, and African Americans are not what you might think. Leerhsen claims that Cobb’s standing was poisoned by stories passed around by sportswriters and biographies written after his death.

For instance, it’s common wisdom that Cobb was an ignorant racist. Yet he employed African Americans to assist him both in Detroit and in the Deep South. Hardly a Klansman, Cobb came from a liberal family whose grandfather was an abolitionist and whose father was more akin to Atticus Finch than a supporter of Jim Crow. Neither was Cobb, according to Leerhsen, a “rube,” but the son of a state senator and something of an intellectual himself. What about the stories of Cobb intentionally spiking opponents? If you actually asked his opponents—and Leerhsen does the research—they are quiet on the issue. Leerhsen reveals how rumors like these ones got started and, using assiduously researched sources, pokes holes in many of the anecdotes that people use to support their view of Cobb.

Cobb, of course, was a sumbitch. Growing up, he was a little guy who had to beg his way on to the local team (at age twelve!). A “born battler,” he was also raised in what the author calls “fighting times,” and if you have ever read anything about sports in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, you already know that most ballplayers were used to brawling (and drinking and cheating). Simply put, he had a short fuse. And though Cobb wouldn’t spike anyone simply to hurt the other player, but I can’t imagine that anyone has ever played harder. Think of a competitor on Michael Jordan’s level—yet twice as driven. The author describes Cobb as “hypersensitive.” If you criticized him, he would get in your face. “Don’t get Cobb mad,” Connie Mack warned others. What made Cobb great, though, is what makes so many other people wilt: He liked opposition. He liked being challenged. It sounds odd that someone who was hypersensitive would enjoy being prodded, but Cobb was complex. He was a strange mixture of insecurity and confidence, emotional fragility and resilience.

He was so sensitive because, like so many other people, he never quite felt he was good enough. He never thought he was (like Shoeless Joe) a natural, meaning that he worked harder than anyone. Most forget that speed was the name of his game, and he worked on his speed as much as he worked on his hitting. He also was a cerebral player, Leerhsen argues, trying to distract pitchers when he was on base, feigning stealing and using any advantage he could. He was an irritant—yet one who batted .367 and stole nearly 900 bases.

Remarkably, his career almost fizzled before he got the chance to become a superstar. During his first few two seasons, he was hazed by several other Tigers, and while Cobb fought back, the players who bullied him tried to ostracize him from the team. This bullying went on longer—much longer—than the usual rookie hazing. Why? Leerhsen explains that Cobb’s teammates hated his “Southernness . . . his bookishness (and) his popularity.” At the time, Southerners in the North were still expected to “display sufficient deference,” and Cobb, who had an “aristocratic” way about him, did not. Plus, it became clear by Cobb’s second season that he was good—too damn good, in fact. In short, Cobb was a target and his teammates nearly destroyed his career.

At about the same time, during his second season, Cobb’s mother was being tried. Cobb witnessed her shooting and killing his father. His mother was not convicted, but Cobb was devastated. This, along with the hazing and his status as an outsider in the North among a bunch of rough characters, led to what Leershen suggests was a nervous breakdown. Cobb left the Tigers in his second season for several weeks for a local sanitarium. Apparently, he healed himself well, because when he came back, he went on a twenty-year tear.

Why did some people during his time despise him? They didn’t quite despise him as we might think. He was the game’s biggest draw before Ruth (who was also booed on the road). He irritated other players with his intensity, talent, and brainy approach to the game. (He wanted to be a “mental hazard” for his opponents.) He took every advantage possible, and people like that can be tiring. However, many of his actions—including the photo of Cobb sliding into the catcher Paul Krichell, a photo in which Cobb appears to be spiking Krichell out of spite—were taken out of context. By playing hard, Cobb found himself involved in various controversies. But since whatever Cobb did was news, those stories were blown out of proportion. “Cobb was the roughest, toughest player I ever saw, a terror on the basepaths,” said former adversary Burt Shotten. “He was not dirty, though. . . . But if you ever got in the way of his flying spikes, brother, you were a dead turkey.” Opponents generally respected him.

Previous biographers simply assumed that Cobb was racist. He did beat a black man senseless in Detroit, but the two seemed to egg one another on. In another incident a few years later, Cobb got into a fight with a bellboy who one biographer assumed was black, though Leerhsen finds no evidence of that. In fact, given the times, Leerhsen argues that since the bellboy’s race was not mentioned, it is probably safer to assume that he was white. In any case, the biographies of Cobb written after his death ruined his reputation; even writers like Bill Bryson speak confidently of Cobb’s psychopathic tendencies. And by today’s standards, Cobb might appear that way; in truth, he was a tightly-wound and often violent person. But, according to Leerhsen, he was no psychopath. Cobb was capable of great generosity. He was a complex competitor who had every light shined upon him.

All in all, this is a fantastic read. Leerhsen has done exhaustive research. What’s more, he’s an excellent writer; the book is clear, engaging, and often hilarious. It’s a dense 400 pages, but worth the read.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:41 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty, by Charles Leerhsen.

“The source of my trouble with Cobb was simple,” Donie Bush, one of Cobb’s former Tigers teammates, explained. “He expected me to do the things he did, and I just couldn’t be so perfect. Who could?” Leerhsen’s engaging “exhumation” of Cobb and his reputation reveals that the man who most people today regard as “the most hated man in baseball” was a complex person whose relationships with his teammates, the fans, and African Americans are not what you might think. Leerhsen claims that Cobb’s standing was poisoned by stories passed around by sportswriters and biographies written after his death.

For instance, it’s common wisdom that Cobb was an ignorant racist. Yet he employed African Americans to assist him both in Detroit and in the Deep South. Hardly a Klansman, Cobb came from a liberal family whose grandfather was an abolitionist and whose father was more akin to Atticus Finch than a supporter of Jim Crow. Neither was Cobb, according to Leerhsen, a “rube,” but the son of a state senator and something of an intellectual himself. What about the stories of Cobb intentionally spiking opponents? If you actually asked his opponents—and Leerhsen does the research—they are quiet on the issue. Leerhsen reveals how rumors like these ones got started and, using assiduously researched sources, pokes holes in many of the anecdotes that people use to support their view of Cobb.

Cobb, of course, was a sumbitch. Growing up, he was a little guy who had to beg his way on to the local team (at age twelve!). A “born battler,” he was also raised in what the author calls “fighting times,” and if you have ever read anything about sports in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, you already know that most ballplayers were used to brawling (and drinking and cheating). Simply put, he had a short fuse. And though Cobb wouldn’t spike anyone simply to hurt the other player, but I can’t imagine that anyone has ever played harder. Think of a competitor on Michael Jordan’s level—yet twice as driven. The author describes Cobb as “hypersensitive.” If you criticized him, he would get in your face. “Don’t get Cobb mad,” Connie Mack warned others. What made Cobb great, though, is what makes so many other people wilt: He liked opposition. He liked being challenged. It sounds odd that someone who was hypersensitive would enjoy being prodded, but Cobb was complex. He was a strange mixture of insecurity and confidence, emotional fragility and resilience.

He was so sensitive because, like so many other people, he never quite felt he was good enough. He never thought he was (like Shoeless Joe) a natural, meaning that he worked harder than anyone. Most forget that speed was the name of his game, and he worked on his speed as much as he worked on his hitting. He also was a cerebral player, Leerhsen argues, trying to distract pitchers when he was on base, feigning stealing and using any advantage he could. He was an irritant—yet one who batted .367 and stole nearly 900 bases.

Remarkably, his career almost fizzled before he got the chance to become a superstar. During his first few two seasons, he was hazed by several other Tigers, and while Cobb fought back, the players who bullied him tried to ostracize him from the team. This bullying went on longer—much longer—than the usual rookie hazing. Why? Leerhsen explains that Cobb’s teammates hated his “Southernness . . . his bookishness (and) his popularity.” At the time, Southerners in the North were still expected to “display sufficient deference,” and Cobb, who had an “aristocratic” way about him, did not. Plus, it became clear by Cobb’s second season that he was good—too damn good, in fact. In short, Cobb was a target and his teammates nearly destroyed his career.

At about the same time, during his second season, Cobb’s mother was being tried. Cobb witnessed her shooting and killing his father. His mother was not convicted, but Cobb was devastated. This, along with the hazing and his status as an outsider in the North among a bunch of rough characters, led to what Leershen suggests was a nervous breakdown. Cobb left the Tigers in his second season for several weeks for a local sanitarium. Apparently, he healed himself well, because when he came back, he went on a twenty-year tear.

Why did some people during his time despise him? They didn’t quite despise him as we might think. He was the game’s biggest draw before Ruth (who was also booed on the road). He irritated other players with his intensity, talent, and brainy approach to the game. (He wanted to be a “mental hazard” for his opponents.) He took every advantage possible, and people like that can be tiring. However, many of his actions—including the photo of Cobb sliding into the catcher Paul Krichell, a photo in which Cobb appears to be spiking Krichell out of spite—were taken out of context. By playing hard, Cobb found himself involved in various controversies. But since whatever Cobb did was news, those stories were blown out of proportion. “Cobb was the roughest, toughest player I ever saw, a terror on the basepaths,” said former adversary Burt Shotten. “He was not dirty, though. . . . But if you ever got in the way of his flying spikes, brother, you were a dead turkey.” Opponents generally respected him.

Previous biographers simply assumed that Cobb was racist. He did beat a black man senseless in Detroit, but the two seemed to egg one another on. In another incident a few years later, Cobb got into a fight with a bellboy who one biographer assumed was black, though Leerhsen finds no evidence of that. In fact, given the times, Leerhsen argues that since the bellboy’s race was not mentioned, it is probably safer to assume that he was white. In any case, the biographies of Cobb written after his death ruined his reputation; even writers like Bill Bryson speak confidently of Cobb’s psychopathic tendencies. And by today’s standards, Cobb might appear that way; in truth, he was a tightly-wound and often violent person. But, according to Leerhsen, he was no psychopath.

All in all, this is a fantastic read. Leerhsen has done exhaustive research. What’s more, he’s an excellent writer; the book is clear, engaging, and often hilarious. It’s a dense 400 pages, but worth the read.


His grandson hershel cobb had a book out a few years ago about him. he said he turned the corner when it came to African American's and supported Jackie Robinson's admission to baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:51 pm 
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HawaiiYou wrote:

His grandson hershel cobb had a book out a few years ago about him. he said he turned the corner when it came to African American's and supported Jackie Robinson's admission to baseball.

Never read that one! But Cobb definitely supported Robinson and even spoke about it in 1952 in Texas in the minors....to people who were not supportive of Robinson....but Cobb had employed African Americans for years. He was way more tolerant than any Chicagoan I knew growing up.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:04 pm 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty, by Charles Leerhsen.

“The source of my trouble with Cobb was simple,” Donie Bush, one of Cobb’s former Tigers teammates, explained. “He expected me to do the things he did, and I just couldn’t be so perfect. Who could?” Leerhsen’s engaging “exhumation” of Cobb and his reputation reveals that the man who most people today regard as “the most hated man in baseball” was a complex person whose relationships with his teammates, the fans, and African Americans are not what you might think. Leerhsen claims that Cobb’s standing was poisoned by stories passed around by sportswriters and biographies written after his death.

For instance, it’s common wisdom that Cobb was an ignorant racist. Yet he employed African Americans to assist him both in Detroit and in the Deep South. Hardly a Klansman, Cobb came from a liberal family whose grandfather was an abolitionist and whose father was more akin to Atticus Finch than a supporter of Jim Crow. Neither was Cobb, according to Leerhsen, a “rube,” but the son of a state senator and something of an intellectual himself. What about the stories of Cobb intentionally spiking opponents? If you actually asked his opponents—and Leerhsen does the research—they are quiet on the issue. Leerhsen reveals how rumors like these ones got started and, using assiduously researched sources, pokes holes in many of the anecdotes that people use to support their view of Cobb.

Cobb, of course, was a sumbitch. Growing up, he was a little guy who had to beg his way on to the local team (at age twelve!). A “born battler,” he was also raised in what the author calls “fighting times,” and if you have ever read anything about sports in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, you already know that most ballplayers were used to brawling (and drinking and cheating). Simply put, he had a short fuse. And though Cobb wouldn’t spike anyone simply to hurt the other player, but I can’t imagine that anyone has ever played harder. Think of a competitor on Michael Jordan’s level—yet twice as driven. The author describes Cobb as “hypersensitive.” If you criticized him, he would get in your face. “Don’t get Cobb mad,” Connie Mack warned others. What made Cobb great, though, is what makes so many other people wilt: He liked opposition. He liked being challenged. It sounds odd that someone who was hypersensitive would enjoy being prodded, but Cobb was complex. He was a strange mixture of insecurity and confidence, emotional fragility and resilience.

He was so sensitive because, like so many other people, he never quite felt he was good enough. He never thought he was (like Shoeless Joe) a natural, meaning that he worked harder than anyone. Most forget that speed was the name of his game, and he worked on his speed as much as he worked on his hitting. He also was a cerebral player, Leerhsen argues, trying to distract pitchers when he was on base, feigning stealing and using any advantage he could. He was an irritant—yet one who batted .367 and stole nearly 900 bases.

Remarkably, his career almost fizzled before he got the chance to become a superstar. During his first few two seasons, he was hazed by several other Tigers, and while Cobb fought back, the players who bullied him tried to ostracize him from the team. This bullying went on longer—much longer—than the usual rookie hazing. Why? Leerhsen explains that Cobb’s teammates hated his “Southernness . . . his bookishness (and) his popularity.” At the time, Southerners in the North were still expected to “display sufficient deference,” and Cobb, who had an “aristocratic” way about him, did not. Plus, it became clear by Cobb’s second season that he was good—too damn good, in fact. In short, Cobb was a target and his teammates nearly destroyed his career.

At about the same time, during his second season, Cobb’s mother was being tried. Cobb witnessed her shooting and killing his father. His mother was not convicted, but Cobb was devastated. This, along with the hazing and his status as an outsider in the North among a bunch of rough characters, led to what Leershen suggests was a nervous breakdown. Cobb left the Tigers in his second season for several weeks for a local sanitarium. Apparently, he healed himself well, because when he came back, he went on a twenty-year tear.

Why did some people during his time despise him? They didn’t quite despise him as we might think. He was the game’s biggest draw before Ruth (who was also booed on the road). He irritated other players with his intensity, talent, and brainy approach to the game. (He wanted to be a “mental hazard” for his opponents.) He took every advantage possible, and people like that can be tiring. However, many of his actions—including the photo of Cobb sliding into the catcher Paul Krichell, a photo in which Cobb appears to be spiking Krichell out of spite—were taken out of context. By playing hard, Cobb found himself involved in various controversies. But since whatever Cobb did was news, those stories were blown out of proportion. “Cobb was the roughest, toughest player I ever saw, a terror on the basepaths,” said former adversary Burt Shotten. “He was not dirty, though. . . . But if you ever got in the way of his flying spikes, brother, you were a dead turkey.” Opponents generally respected him.

Previous biographers simply assumed that Cobb was racist. He did beat a black man senseless in Detroit, but the two seemed to egg one another on. In another incident a few years later, Cobb got into a fight with a bellboy who one biographer assumed was black, though Leerhsen finds no evidence of that. In fact, given the times, Leerhsen argues that since the bellboy’s race was not mentioned, it is probably safer to assume that he was white. In any case, the biographies of Cobb written after his death ruined his reputation; even writers like Bill Bryson speak confidently of Cobb’s psychopathic tendencies. And by today’s standards, Cobb might appear that way; in truth, he was a tightly-wound and often violent person. But, according to Leerhsen, he was no psychopath.

All in all, this is a fantastic read. Leerhsen has done exhaustive research. What’s more, he’s an excellent writer; the book is clear, engaging, and often hilarious. It’s a dense 400 pages, but worth the read.


His grandson hershel cobb had a book out a few years ago about him. he said he turned the corner when it came to African American's and supported Jackie Robinson's admission to baseball.


It seemed like a lot of stories about Cobb came from Al Stump's books, creating a version of Cobb as a racist asshole. I remember hearing Leerhsen on a Hit n' Run episode last year pitching his book; certainly destroyed a lot of myths about Cobb that I had always believed.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:20 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:

His grandson hershel cobb had a book out a few years ago about him. he said he turned the corner when it came to African American's and supported Jackie Robinson's admission to baseball.

Never read that one! But Cobb definitely supported Robinson and even spoke about it in 1952 in Texas in the minors....to people who were not supportive of Robinson....but Cobb had employed African Americans for years. He was way more tolerant than any Chicagoan I knew growing up.



https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Tiger-Grow ... 1770411305

I saw him on a local news interview. I think you can probably see it on youtube.

Ya, Chicago was probably the most racist city in the North back then and for many years to come. No wait, I take that back. 2nd most racist Northern City. Forgot about Boston. I remember when mlk first came to Chicago they threw rocks at him. MLK said there was more hate in Chicago than any other place in the south.


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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:34 pm 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:

His grandson hershel cobb had a book out a few years ago about him. he said he turned the corner when it came to African American's and supported Jackie Robinson's admission to baseball.

Never read that one! But Cobb definitely supported Robinson and even spoke about it in 1952 in Texas in the minors....to people who were not supportive of Robinson....but Cobb had employed African Americans for years. He was way more tolerant than any Chicagoan I knew growing up.



https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Tiger-Grow ... 1770411305

I saw him on a local news interview. I think you can probably see it on youtube.

Ya, Chicago was probably the most racist city in the North back then and for many years to come. No wait, I take that back. 2nd most racist Northern City. Forgot about Boston. I remember when mlk first came to Chicago they threw rocks at him.


Especially Bridgeport back in the day.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:58 pm 
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i began some time ago the malazan book of the fallen. i got maybe 1/3 of the way through Gardens of the Moon and put it down due to something and never picked it back up.

i'm now 2/3 of the way through it and am looking forward to the rest of the book as well as this series. its long and drawn out but i think much better at least initially than WOT.


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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:26 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:

His grandson hershel cobb had a book out a few years ago about him. he said he turned the corner when it came to African American's and supported Jackie Robinson's admission to baseball.

Never read that one! But Cobb definitely supported Robinson and even spoke about it in 1952 in Texas in the minors....to people who were not supportive of Robinson....but Cobb had employed African Americans for years. He was way more tolerant than any Chicagoan I knew growing up.


I guess I'll be heading to the bookstore now. Cobb (even portrayed as an unrepentant racist) has always fascinated me.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:

His grandson hershel cobb had a book out a few years ago about him. he said he turned the corner when it came to African American's and supported Jackie Robinson's admission to baseball.

Never read that one! But Cobb definitely supported Robinson and even spoke about it in 1952 in Texas in the minors....to people who were not supportive of Robinson....but Cobb had employed African Americans for years. He was way more tolerant than any Chicagoan I knew growing up.


I guess I'll be heading to the bookstore now. Cobb (even portrayed as an unrepentant racist) has always fascinated me.


I just read an article that said all the negative shit we've read about Cobb, that he was a virulent racist, a bad teammate, a murderer etc. was made up bullshit by that Al Stump guy who had a beef with Cobb.

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 Post subject: Re: Books
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:01 am 
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The Rivalry: Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and the Golden Age of Basketball by John Taylor.

A fairly intimate examination of the NBA's two mega-stars in the 1950s and 60s, The Rivalry emphasizes the markedly different paths Russell and Chamberlain took to NBA super-stardom while at the same time showing how both men were essentially alone--and predictable, if not complex. The differences between the two are amazing: Chamberlain had college suitors as a fourteen year-old, whereas Russell did not even expect to play college ball and was surprised when a single school--USF--recruited him. Each became interested in civil rights because of the treatment they faced, yet Chamberlain became a Nixon Republican. Chamberlain was obviously an offensive force, while Russell was probably the greatest defensive player ever. Where Russell learned the pro game under the aegis of a single coach (Red Auerbach) and his unified, proven approach to the game, Chamberlain played for many coaches (he seems to have been something of a coach-killer, which Taylor does not consciously explore) and saw his team moved from one coast to another. Russell was the ultimate team player; Chamberlain was the ultimate individual player. Russell seemed to make his teammates better; Chamberlain often got in the way of teammates like Elgin Baylor and even when he led the league in assists, he angered his coach by not scoring. When the two met, Taylor explains, the atmosphere was electric; their meetings helped spur interest in the league, particularly on television. Russell's team, of course, went 7-1 against Chamberlain's in the playoffs.

None of this is really new information, but The Rivalry provides absorbing biographies of Russell and Chamberlain both. As previously mentioned, both became interested in Civil Rights; for example, after leading USF to two national titles, Russell was invited to the White House to meet Eisenhower. On the drive back to California, Russell's father decided to take the family down to Louisiana, from which they originally hailed. Since this was in the 1950s, they could not only not eat in a restaurant, but also had to sleep in their car (hotels would not take them). Taylor points out that this happened just days after Eisenhower referred to Russell as "Mr. Russell." Both players routinely subjected to racially-charged venom in every NBA venue--including their own. Russell became aloof and, though entirely professional on the court, suspicious of others. Chamberlain is often seen as the more gracious of the two, the one who enjoyed fan adulation, but, according to Taylor, he was no less isolated than Russell and increasingly criticized for not winning as much as his Celtic counterpart. Taylor shows how the two became friends before experiencing a falling-out (after Russell criticized Chamberlain for taking himself out of Game 7 in the 1969 finals) which took twenty years to repair.

More than a simple account of the Russell-Chamberlain clashes, The Rivalry offers a close look at the gritty infancy of the NBA. Taylor balances the Russell-Chamberlain narrative with some entertaining league history (with all of the brawls and penny-pinching owners, it was more akin to baseball in the dead ball era) and several excellent portraits of the most relevant individuals, including Auerbach, Bob Cousy, Tommy Heinsohn, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, and the rest. Apart from the backgrounds on Russell and Chamberlain, the portraits of the other stars (and owners) was my favorite part of the book. I'm not sure if this was the NBA's "golden age," as the title claims--how could it be if the Celtics pretty much won every year?--but the league seemed to ascend from mediocrity into something more fan--and television--friendly, and these men ushered it through that change.

The main weakness of the book is that Taylor keeps pointing to how complex both Russell and Chamberlain were. However, it got to the point where each was predictable: Chamberlain inevitably pissed off his coach and his teammates while Russell could be counted on to ignore his fans. Both could be characterized as bitter (due to criticism and apartheid-level racism) and aloof (which will happen when you average 50 points a game or win 11 titles in 13 years). Yes, they were both complex, but I'm not sure either one changed psychologically (Chamberlain's game changed several times) during their careers. Taylor suggests that each seemed to define himself against the other. In any case, after two decades of not speaking to one another, Russell and Chamberlain, mellowed by age, made amends. Russell also made amends with Boston's fanbase, whom he considered racist.

Worth the read.

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