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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Hockey Gay wrote:
I don't care about the word at the end of the day and whether people want to use it or not. I'm gonna end up doing whatever I want anyways. Ruffcorn is schooling everyone in this thread right now though.

What a cuck this Tall Midget guy is. Probably a Bernstein mult.


Your post reads like one of Beardown's streams of consciousness if he were consistently drinking from the Flint municipal water supply.

Go grab a Snickers bar and try to post again when you think you can convince the rest of the world that you're not retarded.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Your post reads like one of Beardown's streams of consciousness if he were consistently drinking from the Flint municipal water supply.

Shit, now I am gonna create a Beardown mult.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:54 pm 
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These guys have an interesting take on it. McWhorter has a great podcast on language.

https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/46391

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
These guys have an interesting take on it. McWhorter has a great podcast on language.

https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/46391

McWhorter is taboo in a lot of places....

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:04 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
These guys have an interesting take on it. McWhorter has a great podcast on language.

https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/46391

McWhorter is taboo in a lot of places....



Why? Because he doesn't subscribe to a particular political orthodoxy that is prevalent in academia?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
These guys have an interesting take on it. McWhorter has a great podcast on language.

https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/46391

McWhorter is taboo in a lot of places....



Why? Because he doesn't subscribe to a particular political orthodoxy that is prevalent in academia?

That's exactly why. He's independent...but is not ultra-conservative (or even conservative) like some people make him out to be.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:10 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
These guys have an interesting take on it. McWhorter has a great podcast on language.

https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/46391

McWhorter is taboo in a lot of places....



Why? Because he doesn't subscribe to a particular political orthodoxy that is prevalent in academia?

That's exactly why. He's independent...but is not ultra-conservative (or even conservative) like some people make him out to be.



I'd also guess that he doesn't sound "black enough" for some people. He did an entire podcast on what he called the "blaccent". Very interesting stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:43 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
These guys have an interesting take on it. McWhorter has a great podcast on language.

https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/46391

McWhorter is taboo in a lot of places....



Why? Because he doesn't subscribe to a particular political orthodoxy that is prevalent in academia?

That's exactly why. He's independent...but is not ultra-conservative (or even conservative) like some people make him out to be.



I'd also guess that he doesn't sound "black enough" for some people. He did an entire podcast on what he called the "blaccent". Very interesting stuff.

Yeah, he's an interesting guy. I read his memoir a couple years ago....it's difficult for most people when their identities are being pulled in different directions, but he's strong enough to deal with it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:43 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
These guys have an interesting take on it. McWhorter has a great podcast on language.

https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/46391

McWhorter is taboo in a lot of places....



Why? Because he doesn't subscribe to a particular political orthodoxy that is prevalent in academia?

That's exactly why. He's independent...but is not ultra-conservative (or even conservative) like some people make him out to be.



I'd also guess that he doesn't sound "black enough" for some people. He did an entire podcast on what he called the "blaccent". Very interesting stuff.

Yeah, he's an interesting guy. I read his memoir a couple years ago....it's difficult for most people when their identities are being pulled in different directions, but he's strong enough to deal with it.


I've wondered what happened to him. He seemingly vanished 2-3 years ago. I'll be listening to this podcast later

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:12 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
This is bullshit to the highest order. First of all a "modicum" of cultural power? Black people have been the drivers of American culture. Without American blacks you have no Jazz, Rock or Rap. To state that they have to small cultural footprint, and controlling this word is one of the few areas that they have power is simply absurd.

Individual black people have reached the highest political office of the United States, and have been leaders in science, medicine, entertainment and business. To state that there remains a conspiracy to hold them back is nihilism of the highest order.

Think about the basics on this debate. One group of people based on race are able to use a word, but others are not. To me this goes against the core ideal of an American melting pot, one that will soon make race very difficult to cleanly define. This seems like a very dated battle to fight. Particularly when a 20-something who is already enjoying national success, calling someone who lived through the Civil Rights Era, and was on the right side of history a "slave-master". I don't see how any of it is helpful other than to continue to push alienation.
It sounds like you are making a case that racism is no longer an issue in the United States. Is that accurate?


Define an "issue". I'm sure there are places were racism creates burdens for people. It's not when millionaires hear or see words they don't like. I've stated this before, and you disagree. There is a wealth distribution problem. Past sins place a large burden of this problem on black people, but I don't think there remains a majority of white people or even a significant minority who believe they are superior to black people and conspire to hold them down.

If there was, how do you explain Asian-Americans earning more on average than white people?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:26 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
How fucking dumb and/or racist do you have to be to passionately defend your right to use the word "n----r"? This is the hill you choose to die on?


Did not read the thread I see.


Nah, I read it. I'm just not persuaded by your arguments about the seemingly pernicious effects of black people demonstrating a modicum of cultural power by redefining the meaning of and the terms under which a given racial epithet is to be used.

Language and power are inextricably linked, and you're mad because blacks have shown a little more power than whites in one instance.

It is interesting to note that such a view is possible only if one views racial politics as a zero-sum game, a flawed view that also makes it possible to hold blacks accountable for structural racial inequality when they are largely devoid of large-scale power within our society.


This is bullshit to the highest order. First of all a "modicum" of cultural power? Black people have been the drivers of American culture. Without American blacks you have no Jazz, Rock or Rap. To state that they have to small cultural footprint, and controlling this word is one of the few areas that they have power is simply absurd.

Individual black people have reached the highest political office of the United States, and have been leaders in science, medicine, entertainment and business. To state that there remains a conspiracy to hold them back is nihilism of the highest order.

Think about the basics on this debate. One group of people based on race are able to use a word, but others are not. To me this goes against the core ideal of an American melting pot, one that will soon make race very difficult to cleanly define. This seems like a very dated battle to fight. Particularly when a 20-something who is already enjoying national success, calling someone who lived through the Civil Rights Era, and was on the right side of history a "slave-master". I don't see how any of it is helpful other than to continue to push alienation.


:lol:

Who said anything about a conspiracy? Do you even understand the concept of institutional racism? Take a look at the disparities between wealth, income, education, and incarceration rates based on race in the United States. Are those disparities a product or merit or something else? If the latter, what?

Of course exceptional blacks rise to the highest levels of American society. But the "talented tenth"--as DuBois might say--is hardly indicative of larger patterns within the social order. Your entire argument above is based on exceptions to the way society works, fails to grasp fundamental social conditions, and is thus entirely devoid of merit.

As for your argument about race as a social construct, you do realize that racial boundaries in the U.S. have been fluid at many key points throughout our history, correct? This is the point of many scholarly works published on American racial history over the past 20 years. Nevertheless, the fact that racial identity is socially constructed hardly mitigates the effects of racism within our society.


DuBois? So the the conditions of 75 years ago remain the same today? Institutional racism is difficult to define, and hardly established science, it's now closer to a religious-like rallying cry. We can "never understand what it means to be black" if so, then what's the point of trying? That's not progress or anything above nihilism.

There was institutional racism 50 years ago, clearly, but there are tools in place now to prevent this. If there are provable instances of racism going back the last 30 years there is a path to evening the odds: sue and there is an excellent chance of victory.

We've passed the point were race is the sole reason holding people back. I will guarantee you a black child born into a wealthy stable family has an infinitely greater chance at a successful life than a white child born into poverty. For you to dismiss the election of Obama or the achievements of thousands of black Americans with- yeah but not everyone is ignoring the system we are operating under. We do not have guaranteed outcomes, but if you look at the per-capita income of American blacks compared to the rest of the world it certainly provides a better picture of suffering on scale.

The bolded part of your argument is meaningless jargon.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:46 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
This is bullshit to the highest order. First of all a "modicum" of cultural power? Black people have been the drivers of American culture. Without American blacks you have no Jazz, Rock or Rap. To state that they have to small cultural footprint, and controlling this word is one of the few areas that they have power is simply absurd.

Individual black people have reached the highest political office of the United States, and have been leaders in science, medicine, entertainment and business. To state that there remains a conspiracy to hold them back is nihilism of the highest order.

Think about the basics on this debate. One group of people based on race are able to use a word, but others are not. To me this goes against the core ideal of an American melting pot, one that will soon make race very difficult to cleanly define. This seems like a very dated battle to fight. Particularly when a 20-something who is already enjoying national success, calling someone who lived through the Civil Rights Era, and was on the right side of history a "slave-master". I don't see how any of it is helpful other than to continue to push alienation.
It sounds like you are making a case that racism is no longer an issue in the United States. Is that accurate?


Define an "issue". I'm sure there are places were racism creates burdens for people. It's not when millionaires hear or see words they don't like. ?


We had a perfect example to counter your argument just a week ago with LeBron James. Here he is, a successful guy with a generally upright character and intelligence. Despite all that, someone tried to claim superiority over him because of their color at birth.

I'll bring it back to the polock thing as well. Here I am with academic and professional credentials but there are people (including friends) who will attempt to claim intellectual superiority by uttering a single word.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:11 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
This is bullshit to the highest order. First of all a "modicum" of cultural power? Black people have been the drivers of American culture. Without American blacks you have no Jazz, Rock or Rap. To state that they have to small cultural footprint, and controlling this word is one of the few areas that they have power is simply absurd.

Individual black people have reached the highest political office of the United States, and have been leaders in science, medicine, entertainment and business. To state that there remains a conspiracy to hold them back is nihilism of the highest order.

Think about the basics on this debate. One group of people based on race are able to use a word, but others are not. To me this goes against the core ideal of an American melting pot, one that will soon make race very difficult to cleanly define. This seems like a very dated battle to fight. Particularly when a 20-something who is already enjoying national success, calling someone who lived through the Civil Rights Era, and was on the right side of history a "slave-master". I don't see how any of it is helpful other than to continue to push alienation.
It sounds like you are making a case that racism is no longer an issue in the United States. Is that accurate?


Define an "issue". I'm sure there are places were racism creates burdens for people. It's not when millionaires hear or see words they don't like. I've stated this before, and you disagree. There is a wealth distribution problem. Past sins place a large burden of this problem on black people, but I don't think there remains a majority of white people or even a significant minority who believe they are superior to black people and conspire to hold them down.

If there was, how do you explain Asian-Americans earning more on average than white people?
This had nothing to do with my response. Can you answer my question?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:22 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
This is bullshit to the highest order. First of all a "modicum" of cultural power? Black people have been the drivers of American culture. Without American blacks you have no Jazz, Rock or Rap. To state that they have to small cultural footprint, and controlling this word is one of the few areas that they have power is simply absurd.

Individual black people have reached the highest political office of the United States, and have been leaders in science, medicine, entertainment and business. To state that there remains a conspiracy to hold them back is nihilism of the highest order.

Think about the basics on this debate. One group of people based on race are able to use a word, but others are not. To me this goes against the core ideal of an American melting pot, one that will soon make race very difficult to cleanly define. This seems like a very dated battle to fight. Particularly when a 20-something who is already enjoying national success, calling someone who lived through the Civil Rights Era, and was on the right side of history a "slave-master". I don't see how any of it is helpful other than to continue to push alienation.
It sounds like you are making a case that racism is no longer an issue in the United States. Is that accurate?


Define an "issue". I'm sure there are places were racism creates burdens for people. It's not when millionaires hear or see words they don't like. ?


We had a perfect example to counter your argument just a week ago with LeBron James. Here he is, a successful guy with a generally upright character and intelligence. Despite all that, someone tried to claim superiority over him because of their color at birth.

I'll bring it back to the polock thing as well. Here I am with academic and professional credentials but there are people (including friends) who will attempt to claim intellectual superiority by uttering a single word.


Who did this to LeBron James? We have zero evidence in that case. No idea about the race of the person who did. How did this act injure this future billionaire? Isn't his success a better sign of the health of society then this supposed act of racism to the gate of his mansion?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Last edited by WaitingforRuffcorn on Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:24 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
This is bullshit to the highest order. First of all a "modicum" of cultural power? Black people have been the drivers of American culture. Without American blacks you have no Jazz, Rock or Rap. To state that they have to small cultural footprint, and controlling this word is one of the few areas that they have power is simply absurd.

Individual black people have reached the highest political office of the United States, and have been leaders in science, medicine, entertainment and business. To state that there remains a conspiracy to hold them back is nihilism of the highest order.

Think about the basics on this debate. One group of people based on race are able to use a word, but others are not. To me this goes against the core ideal of an American melting pot, one that will soon make race very difficult to cleanly define. This seems like a very dated battle to fight. Particularly when a 20-something who is already enjoying national success, calling someone who lived through the Civil Rights Era, and was on the right side of history a "slave-master". I don't see how any of it is helpful other than to continue to push alienation.
It sounds like you are making a case that racism is no longer an issue in the United States. Is that accurate?


Define an "issue". I'm sure there are places were racism creates burdens for people. It's not when millionaires hear or see words they don't like. I've stated this before, and you disagree. There is a wealth distribution problem. Past sins place a large burden of this problem on black people, but I don't think there remains a majority of white people or even a significant minority who believe they are superior to black people and conspire to hold them down.

If there was, how do you explain Asian-Americans earning more on average than white people?
This had nothing to do with my response. Can you answer my question?


I've clearly answered your question. You are being disingenuous. If you want to buy into the religious idea that some words have holy power be my guest. Turning this into you support racism is weak-minded foolishness.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Last edited by WaitingforRuffcorn on Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:27 am 
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You went in on poor people vs. rich people instead of answering the question.

If racism is still an issue in the United States then there is a logical reason why a person in a group should be allowed to use a word while we expect others outside the group not to. That is the clearest path towards lessening the damage that it can cause outside of the unrealistic idea that those who use it in anger will cease to do so.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:31 am 
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Ruffcorn please stop. You've reduced any hope of a legitimate discussion on this topic to empty cynical talking points without any appreciation of the underlying facts.

You arrogantly and maliciously continue to assert your smug racially charged pointless meme for no apparent honest reason that you will admit. It's really as foolhardy (insulting) as someone like Ron Paul arguing against civil rights laws, or how the Civil War wasn't REALLY fought over slavery. Ultimately pointless other than to be insulting.

In any event you clearly have no understanding nor appreciation for black experiences of any economic group and all you are doing is making this a more coarse and less interesting place. There is nothing you have presented that approaches an attempt at intellectual honesty or depth. And it's tiring

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:36 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You went in on poor people vs. rich people instead of answering the question.

If racism is still an issue in the United States then there is a logical reason why a person in a group should be allowed to use a word while we expect others outside the group not to. That is the clearest path towards lessening the damage that it can cause outside of the unrealistic idea that those who use it in anger will cease to do so.


It's a ridiculous standard that's become religion. It's why things like the Evergreen College protest are occurring. When will racism "not be a problem"? It's an impossible standard.

If people need to be publicly shamed for ever saying a world regardless of context then we have agreed to let emotions dictate our response over logic.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:47 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You went in on poor people vs. rich people instead of answering the question.

If racism is still an issue in the United States then there is a logical reason why a person in a group should be allowed to use a word while we expect others outside the group not to. That is the clearest path towards lessening the damage that it can cause outside of the unrealistic idea that those who use it in anger will cease to do so.


It's a ridiculous standard that's become religion. It's why things like the Evergreen College protest are occurring. When will racism "not be a problem"? It's an impossible standard.

If people need to be publicly shamed for ever saying a world regardless of context then we have agreed to let emotions dictate our response over logic.

We are talking about a racial slur designed to be used against one group of people. If is still a problem then we can't fault a group that is target of a hurtful racial slur from trying to lessen the effects by changing the meaning of the word while also wanting those outside of the group to not use it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:48 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Ruffcorn please stop. You've reduced any hope of a legitimate discussion on this topic to empty cynical talking points without any appreciation of the underlying facts.

You arrogantly and maliciously continue to assert your smug racially charged pointless meme for no apparent honest reason that you will admit. It's really as foolhardy (insulting) as someone like Ron Paul arguing against civil rights laws, or how the Civil War wasn't REALLY fought over slavery. Ultimately pointless other than to be insulting.

In any event you clearly have no understanding nor appreciation for black experiences of any economic group and all you are doing is making this a more coarse and less interesting place. There is nothing you have presented that approaches an attempt at intellectual honesty or depth. And it's tiring


This is talking down to because we don't share an opinion. It's also you judging that I cannot possibly understand the position of others- based on what? What intellectual honesty is lacking?

One group claims ownership over a word- and there cannot even be a discussion- just public shaming? This has become dogma.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:53 am 
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What's your obsession with the word and who uses it? I've really tried to understand your argument but I'm struggling.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:54 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You went in on poor people vs. rich people instead of answering the question.

If racism is still an issue in the United States then there is a logical reason why a person in a group should be allowed to use a word while we expect others outside the group not to. That is the clearest path towards lessening the damage that it can cause outside of the unrealistic idea that those who use it in anger will cease to do so.


It's a ridiculous standard that's become religion. It's why things like the Evergreen College protest are occurring. When will racism "not be a problem"? It's an impossible standard.

If people need to be publicly shamed for ever saying a world regardless of context then we have agreed to let emotions dictate our response over logic.

We are talking about a racial slur designed to be used against one group of people. If is still a problem then we can't fault a group that is target of a hurtful racial slur from trying to lessen the effects by changing the meaning of the word while also wanting those outside of the group to not use it.



You continue to repeat the dogma- it's a bad word regardless of context. And you have provided an end date on that of when racism "is no longer a problem".

So where does this extend? Should men never say bitch? Should they be publicly shamed if they do? What about burrito? Even as a joke or talking about a cigarette because context does not matter in your line of thinking just saying a word is so powerful that it injures the other party that hears it.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:04 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Ruffcorn please stop. You've reduced any hope of a legitimate discussion on this topic to empty cynical talking points without any appreciation of the underlying facts.

You arrogantly and maliciously continue to assert your smug racially charged pointless meme for no apparent honest reason that you will admit. It's really as foolhardy (insulting) as someone like Ron Paul arguing against civil rights laws, or how the Civil War wasn't REALLY fought over slavery. Ultimately pointless other than to be insulting.

In any event you clearly have no understanding nor appreciation for black experiences of any economic group and all you are doing is making this a more coarse and less interesting place. There is nothing you have presented that approaches an attempt at intellectual honesty or depth. And it's tiring


This is talking down to because we don't share an opinion. It's also you judging that I cannot possibly understand the position of others- based on what? What intellectual honesty is lacking?

One group claims ownership over a word- and there cannot even be a discussion- just public shaming? This has become dogma.


How in the world can you consider yourself what or how blacks of any economic status may be affected with by virtue of race? It's not that we don't "share an opinion", but that you are seemingly incapable of having a first person based opinion.
Much like I, or any reasonable man wouldn't want to try and "tell" a woman what her childbearing experiences or opinions must be. But I'm sure you've arrogantly been down that pointless road as well.

Public shaming? Maybe just if you don't being told you don't know something, perhaps. But that's pretty weak. But if you don't like it to be noted that you're standing in the shoes with racists and bigots all but screaming a word dying to do nothing more than insult, tough.

But it's a seemingly natural extension of many like you here who want to tell others how they should feel in an area for which they are otherwise blissfully ignorant.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:05 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
You continue to repeat the dogma- it's a bad word regardless of context. And you have provided an end date on that of when racism "is no longer a problem".
There are two uses for the word. One is bad. The other is an attempt by the target to change/lessen the original meaning.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
So where does this extend? Should men never say bitch? Should they be publicly shamed if they do? What about GAY? Even as a joke or talking about a cigarette because context does not matter in your line of thinking just saying a word is so powerful that it injures the other party that hears it.
There is no reason to extend it. We can judge situations on their own. If another word has the same level of hate and vitriol behind it then I would have no problem not using it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Nas wrote:
What's your obsession with the word and who uses it? I've really tried to understand your argument but I'm struggling.



I've come to the point where the answer is plain on it's face.

If you consider yourself friends, or friendly with most here, why would you continue to push the buttons of some who may have strong aversions to something, especially while hiding behind a pathetic (subject) attempt at civil discourse.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
You continue to repeat the dogma- it's a bad word regardless of context. And you have provided an end date on that of when racism "is no longer a problem".
There are two uses for the word. One is bad. The other is an attempt by the target to change/lessen the original meaning.


I agree with that. I'm not sure who wouldn't. But, and Professor Loury addresses this in his podcast that I linked above, should it be a word that is simply stricken from use by white people in, for example, an academic discussion wherein reference to the word is unavoidable?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Ruffcorn please stop. You've reduced any hope of a legitimate discussion on this topic to empty cynical talking points without any appreciation of the underlying facts.

You arrogantly and maliciously continue to assert your smug racially charged pointless meme for no apparent honest reason that you will admit. It's really as foolhardy (insulting) as someone like Ron Paul arguing against civil rights laws, or how the Civil War wasn't REALLY fought over slavery. Ultimately pointless other than to be insulting.

In any event you clearly have no understanding nor appreciation for black experiences of any economic group and all you are doing is making this a more coarse and less interesting place. There is nothing you have presented that approaches an attempt at intellectual honesty or depth. And it's tiring


This is talking down to because we don't share an opinion. It's also you judging that I cannot possibly understand the position of others- based on what? What intellectual honesty is lacking?

One group claims ownership over a word- and there cannot even be a discussion- just public shaming? This has become dogma.


How in the world can you consider yourself what or how blacks of any economic status may be affected with by virtue of race? It's not that we don't "share an opinion", but that you are seemingly incapable of having a first person based opinion.
Much like I, or any reasonable man wouldn't want to try and "tell" a woman what her childbearing experiences or opinions must be. But I'm sure you've arrogantly been down that pointless road as well.

Public shaming? Maybe just if you don't being told you don't know something, perhaps. But that's pretty weak. But if you don't like it to be noted that you're standing in the shoes with racists and bigots all but screaming a word dying to do nothing more than insult, tough.

But it's a seemingly natural extension of many like you here who want to tell others how they should feel in an area for which they are otherwise blissfully ignorant.


You are in the business of telling me how I should feel, and what words I should say. If someone says a word without intent to harm, yet groups are telling them that they cannot then we in the business of censorship. And where does it end? Does every group that has suffered get to submit a list of words that they cannot bear to hear? This creates a chilling effect on scholarship and understanding because it starts with one word and creeps into other areas:

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/a ... 49574.html

As far as shared experiences- I know what it is like to be humiliated by the police. I know what it's like to feel like an outsider or to feel poor. Of course these are not exact translations to the totality of the black experience in America, but saying that we are so radically different that we cannot possibly understand each other means that we will never make any progress and the past will have won. I can show empathy and try to understand as best I can without venturing into the ridiculous kissing of a ring over hurt feelings where intent and context do not matter.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:29 pm 
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"scholarship and understanding"
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
You continue to repeat the dogma- it's a bad word regardless of context. And you have provided an end date on that of when racism "is no longer a problem".
There are two uses for the word. One is bad. The other is an attempt by the target to change/lessen the original meaning.


I agree with that. I'm not sure who wouldn't. But, and Professor Loury addresses this in his podcast that I linked above, should it be a word that is simply stricken from use by white people in, for example, an academic discussion wherein reference to the word is unavoidable?


I finally got to listen to that podcast. They should be embarrassed. Intellectual sophistry on display

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
You continue to repeat the dogma- it's a bad word regardless of context. And you have provided an end date on that of when racism "is no longer a problem".
There are two uses for the word. One is bad. The other is an attempt by the target to change/lessen the original meaning.


I agree with that. I'm not sure who wouldn't. But, and Professor Loury addresses this in his podcast that I linked above, should it be a word that is simply stricken from use by white people in, for example, an academic discussion wherein reference to the word is unavoidable?


I finally got to listen to that podcast. They should be embarrassed. Intellectual sophistry on display


Why do you say that? Are their opinions not valid?

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