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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
NCIS killed off one of it's stars in the second season.
ER killed off a bunch of major players.
Like someone said M*A*S*H* killed Col. Blake.
24 constantly killed main characters
chas knows about Buffy and Angel killing main guys and girls.
West Wing killed Mrs. Landingham in the second season.
Sopranos whacked Adriana.
LA Law had a main character walk into an empty elevator shaft.
Simpsons killed Maude.
Even Seinfeld killed Susan.
As rpb reiterated, his point is that later shows suffered because they couldn't replace the characters they killed off. I'm pretty sure that Susan and Maude didn't ruin the series when they left.

Things changed with GoT, Walking Dead, and to some degree Sons Of Anarchy. Even BB didn't really kill off any true main characters until the last season.

I didn't say that characters never died. From what I understand from those shows, most of those characters would be labeled as supporting at best. A few shows had characters "killed" for non story reasons because they were leaving the show too.

Prior to the last round of shows, it was very rare for main characters to be killed off for story reasons. Your list, even though I haven't seen every show, shows that. Half of that list were characters that were only slightly meaningful. ER didn't even kill off many of the characters when they left the show.

Compare that to the body count of major characters in GoT and honestly tell me that it's the same as a show having someone fall down an elevator shaft.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Well Game of Thrones is a show about a warring world and LA Law was a show about lawyers. Of course the body count is gonna be higher.

Main characters died plenty of times prior to GoT. It wasn't a new phenomenon.

That's all.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Well Game of Thrones is a show about a warring world and LA Law was a show about lawyers. Of course the body count is gonna be higher.

Main characters died plenty of times prior to GoT. It wasn't a new phenomenon.

That's all.
Come up with a real list though of the biggest characters that died. Before recent times, it is mostly this:
1) Side characters/short term characters.
2) Guys who simply left the show and got a quick exit.
3) Main characters who died as part of the final storyline or episodes.

TV has changed in the last few years.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Well Game of Thrones is a show about a warring world and LA Law was a show about lawyers. Of course the body count is gonna be higher.

Main characters died plenty of times prior to GoT. It wasn't a new phenomenon.

That's all.
Come up with a real list though of the biggest characters that died. Before recent times, it is mostly this:
1) Side characters/short term characters.
2) Guys who simply left the show and got a quick exit.
3) Main characters who died as part of the final storyline or episodes.

TV has changed in the last few years.




Not to mention half the shows these guys listed suck. Big Chicagoan had a good one though with law n order season 2( fat detective shot)

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:18 pm 
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The thing about String vs Ned though is that even though both were main characters who were great, Ned is the only one of the two that had a "shocking" death, at least to those of us who hadn't read the books. I think most people knew String was gonna die very shortly after his rooftop chat with Avon. I remember expecting it the first time I watched the series.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Well Game of Thrones is a show about a warring world and LA Law was a show about lawyers. Of course the body count is gonna be higher.

Main characters died plenty of times prior to GoT. It wasn't a new phenomenon.

That's all.
Come up with a real list though of the biggest characters that died. Before recent times, it is mostly this:
1) Side characters/short term characters.
2) Guys who simply left the show and got a quick exit.
3) Main characters who died as part of the final storyline or episodes.

TV has changed in the last few years.


i know you want to believe that to preserve your point of view, but you don't watch a lot of TV and haven't historically if you think this is true. like i said, joss whedon pretty much made it his artform to kill off fan favorites and major characters (buffy's mom comes to mind), and as i cited before, guys like Col Blake in "M*A*S*H*" were central characters to the show. For a good amount of time. And his death changed the tone of the show from that point on.

Deep Throat's death in "The X-Files" was also a shock, seeing as how he was just becoming a big part of Mulder & Scully's inroad to discovering the mass conspiracy and cover-up that the government was doing. He died in the first season, just as he was becoming more important.

"Game of Thrones" is ushering in a new era of this kind of storytelling for TV, but it isn't new.

so everyone can move on now.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:21 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
so everyone can move on now.

First day posting here? :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:22 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
W_Z wrote:
so everyone can move on now.

First day posting here? :D

:lol:

Zack has spoken!

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:23 pm 
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60 Minutes killed off Mike Wallace, Harry Reasoner, Ed Bradley, Morley Safer, and Andy Rooney.

And they actually killed them dead - boo hoo Stringer.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
W_Z wrote:
so everyone can move on now.

First day posting here? :D

:lol:

Zack has spoken!


Image


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:26 pm 
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McLean Stevenson wanted off MASH. I don't think that was a bold writing choice.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:06 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Well Game of Thrones is a show about a warring world and LA Law was a show about lawyers. Of course the body count is gonna be higher.

Main characters died plenty of times prior to GoT. It wasn't a new phenomenon.

That's all.
Come up with a real list though of the biggest characters that died. Before recent times, it is mostly this:
1) Side characters/short term characters.
2) Guys who simply left the show and got a quick exit.
3) Main characters who died as part of the final storyline or episodes.

TV has changed in the last few years.


i know you want to believe that to preserve your point of view, but you don't watch a lot of TV and haven't historically if you think this is true. like i said, joss whedon pretty much made it his artform to kill off fan favorites and major characters (buffy's mom comes to mind), and as i cited before, guys like Col Blake in "M*A*S*H*" were central characters to the show. For a good amount of time. And his death changed the tone of the show from that point on.

Deep Throat's death in "The X-Files" was also a shock, seeing as how he was just becoming a big part of Mulder & Scully's inroad to discovering the mass conspiracy and cover-up that the government was doing. He died in the first season, just as he was becoming more important.

"Game of Thrones" is ushering in a new era of this kind of storytelling for TV, but it isn't new.

so everyone can move on now.

Buffy? :lol:

Deep throat from x files?

Not making a strong case here.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:08 pm 
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I've never watched a minute of Buffy but most critics I've read agree it was a great show.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:31 pm 
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BRick starts to become more unhinged as the laughing emoticons pile up like a body count. The only thing missing is the trademark indignant exlamation point.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:10 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
I've never watched a minute of Buffy but most critics I've read agree it was a great show.
There are a lot of great shows, but to cite Buffy's mom as a reason that big characters often died in tv shows is funny.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:11 am 
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W_Z wrote:
BRick starts to become more unhinged as the laughing emoticons pile up like a body count. The only thing missing is the trademark indignant exlamation point.
:lol: Quality response.

I think we can move on now.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:50 am 
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I think I finally get what Rick means.

While the "death of a main character" trope has been prevalent in TV since time immemorial, GoT was one of the only ones where the character positioned as the main character is killed off early in the series.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:59 am 
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What about Jon-Erik Hexum on Cover Up?

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:08 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
I think I finally get what Rick means.

While the "death of a main character" trope has been prevalent in TV since time immemorial, GoT was one of the only ones where the character positioned as the main character is killed off early in the series.


you couldn't divine that from this post:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The killing off of great characters is a relatively new thing, and if done with no plan for the ultimate ending that is a problem.


As I said, "great" is subjective. But major or main characters have been offed in the history of TV well before GoT, and not just ancillary characters.

What GoT did was bring it to the new landscape of TV, and I agree that it has been copied again recently. But I believe even TWD's source material also had main characters killed off pretty early...one of the biggest, in fact...that i believe was changed *for* the show.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:13 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
NCIS killed off one of it's stars in the second season.
ER killed off a bunch of major players.
Like someone said M*A*S*H* killed Col. Blake.
24 constantly killed main characters
chas knows about Buffy and Angel killing main guys and girls.
West Wing killed Mrs. Landingham in the second season.
Sopranos whacked Adriana.
LA Law had a main character walk into an empty elevator shaft.
Simpsons killed Maude.
Even Seinfeld killed Susan.
As rpb reiterated, his point is that later shows suffered because they couldn't replace the characters they killed off. I'm pretty sure that Susan and Maude didn't ruin the series when they left.

Things changed with GoT, Walking Dead, and to some degree Sons Of Anarchy. Even BB didn't really kill off any true main characters until the last season.


Gus Fring doesn't qualify as a main character?

Even Tuco, at the time of his death, was a major player in the show.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:15 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Well Game of Thrones is a show about a warring world and LA Law was a show about lawyers. Of course the body count is gonna be higher.

Main characters died plenty of times prior to GoT. It wasn't a new phenomenon.

That's all.

Just to clarify in regards to L.A. Law, Rosalind dying in the elevator shaft was a huge shocker and she was the main antagonist on the show at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:18 am 
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Killing Ned would be like killing Hank in BB..Tuco wasnt a main character, Gus was though.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:19 am 
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W_Z wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I think I finally get what Rick means.

While the "death of a main character" trope has been prevalent in TV since time immemorial, GoT was one of the only ones where the character positioned as the main character is killed off early in the series.


you couldn't divine that from this post:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The killing off of great characters is a relatively new thing, and if done with no plan for the ultimate ending that is a problem.


As I said, "great" is subjective. But major or main characters have been offed in the history of TV well before GoT, and not just ancillary characters.

What GoT did was bring it to the new landscape of TV, and I agree that it has been copied again recently. But I believe even TWD's source material also had main characters killed off pretty early...one of the biggest, in fact...that i believe was changed *for* the show.
Didn't you counter with Maude Flanders? Was she a "great" character?

Just be honest. You took it that I meant that characters weren't killed off prior to GoT and other recent shows. I know you don't think I'm very educated on television per your previous post but the list of "great" characters that were killed off prior to the recent run of shows is not very big. There were deaths, and it was mostly supporting characters with a few exceptions as listed.

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Last edited by Brick on Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:24 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
NCIS killed off one of it's stars in the second season.
ER killed off a bunch of major players.
Like someone said M*A*S*H* killed Col. Blake.
24 constantly killed main characters
chas knows about Buffy and Angel killing main guys and girls.
West Wing killed Mrs. Landingham in the second season.
Sopranos whacked Adriana.
LA Law had a main character walk into an empty elevator shaft.
Simpsons killed Maude.
Even Seinfeld killed Susan.
As rpb reiterated, his point is that later shows suffered because they couldn't replace the characters they killed off. I'm pretty sure that Susan and Maude didn't ruin the series when they left.

Things changed with GoT, Walking Dead, and to some degree Sons Of Anarchy. Even BB didn't really kill off any true main characters until the last season.


Gus Fring doesn't qualify as a main character?

Even Tuco, at the time of his death, was a major player in the show.
Tuco was not a major character. You seem to be confusing being important at the time and being a major character.

Gus would be a borderline main character, but his story was almost all simply in support of other characters storylines. If we want to count him that is fine but BB was recent enough that it probably helps my point more than hurts it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:31 am 
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312player wrote:
Killing Ned would be like killing Hank in BB..Tuco wasnt a main character, Gus was though.

At the time of his death, Tuco was absolutely a main character.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:38 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tuco was not a major character. You seem to be confusing being important at the time and being a major character.

:lol: :lol:

You can't judge characters years after their deaths. BB could have been canceled after season 2 and then Tuco would have been the main bad guy.

The death has to be judged at the time. At the time, Tuco was a main character without question. Of course if the show goes on to have many more seasons the early stuff doesn't get as much emphasis.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Gus would be a borderline main character, but his story was almost all simply in support of other characters storylines. If we want to count him that is fine but BB was recent enough that it probably helps my point more than hurts it.

:lol: :lol:

Ok, I'm done.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:40 am 
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Rick, which main characters died on GoT?


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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:41 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
I think I finally get what Rick means.

While the "death of a main character" trope has been prevalent in TV since time immemorial, GoT was one of the only ones where the character positioned as the main character is killed off early in the series.
This is pretty close to the truth. Prior to this generation of television, however you want to define it, the big stars of the show almost always survived at least until the part of the show where it was starting to reach the end. Many times when a star did leave early it was because they were choosing to leave the show and those people often just got written out in other ways. This is what happened with shows like NYPD Blue and ER.

LOST, a show about people who were literally dead(or whatever they were) kept pretty much everyone around outside of Charlie, and the brother and sister who were pretty much useless anyways.

That's why I said to make the list and people like Maude Flanders and a girl from the Sopranos made the list. There are more major character deaths that aren't part of the end story with TWD and GoT than probably every other show combined and all of those were done on purpose and not because someone was leaving the show to do other stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:46 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Rick, which main characters died on GoT?
I think that is a good question. If we consider Tuco a main character in BB, who lasted from episode 6-9 in BB, then I'll pretty much just copy and paste the entire cast list and subtract Ed Sheeran.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:59 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Rick, which main characters died on GoT?
I think that is a good question. If we consider Tuco a main character in BB, who lasted from episode 6-9 in BB, then I'll pretty much just copy and paste the entire cast list and subtract Ed Sheeran.

Answer the good question.

Your formula for who is a main character seems flawed. Under your system, it seems Marie from Breaking Bad was a main character and Gus was not?

Was Shane a main character in TWD?


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