Last I checked, a defender has as much right to go after the ball as the receiver. That is what happened. He beat him to the spot the ball was thrown.

Watch at 3:05 here:http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009111200/2009/REG10/bears@49ers#tab:watch The defender is watching Cutler the whole time and jumps to the spot. That is allowed just like it would be allowed for an offensive player to do the same. That is why it wasn't called.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Nice post, Frank.

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Team Cutler.

Again, I'm not absolving Jay from blame. those 2 red zone INTs were 100% on him, and that was pitiful. Now, on the first one, I called all 3 plays before they happened, which says a lot for Ron Turner. And I have not even mentioned the false starts and bad snap.

Spauling is right when she says that the problem is Cutler's head. I think he feels like he has to make a play because very few other people on offense can. For the most part, he's probably right.

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I agree with what Waddle just said on this. Legit play by the defender. Cutler has to throw a better ball. Davis has to run a better route.

I think you underestimate how poorly Cutler has played this year.


You need to watch the games a little more closely if you don't think Cutler has done a good portion of his bad plays completely on his own. Even in Denver with superstar WR Brandon Marshall he was still a turnover machine. That is what you are ignoring. This is EXACTLY what Cutler has been his whole career so far. Maybe it isn't a case of poor talent around Cutler but the superior talent of Brandon Marshall making Cutler look better than he is. Marshall is getting all the credit in Denver for making Orton look great. What if Marshall really is the one who made Denver work so well last year?

I don't have an axe to grind against Cutler. I just understand what he is. It's good to see you are starting to notice it too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think you underestimate how poorly Cutler has played this year.[/quote]


Maybe I do. But you seem to underestimate how poorly the Oline, WRs, and Forte have been this year.

You know, you were on everybody's ass when this trade was making for talking about how Cutler is going to be the savior. Now, you are expecting him to be just that.

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I dont think he's ever been this bad

No I still think he could be a franchise QB and could be one of the elite. And I still think even if that never happens it was worth the risk they took.

I think the WRs have the talent they are not being used properly and they don't run good routes. I never expected Forte or the line to be this bad. It is beyond me why the coaching staff has not made changes to their game plan. They cannot do what they did the last few years the talent is not there. They should not be running up the middle yet they keep doing it. Use the outside. The receivers that have been the most productive have speed send it down field. They don't get open as you say because they are not very capable in doing so. Don't ask them to do it as often as they do or teach them how to do it.

This is confusing. I specifically said that Jay Cutler wasn't the savior that others said he was. Now, I am saying that he isn't a franchise QB.

I expect him to be a franchise QB because we paid for a franchise QB, pay him as a franchise QB, and are building around him for the future.

He's never statistically been this bad but the flaws in his game are more easily visible now. He'll get better than this though but

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

if a WR cant run good routes, what is their talent? i can stand still and catch a well-thrown ball. if a WR cant run a route and get open, i would say they dont have much talent.

I still disagree. There's no way he could have gotten to the ball without knocking Davis down. It wasn't a great pass, but it still should have been a flag, IMO. For a big man, Davis fell over way too easily as well; if he stays on his feet, the DB is effectively sealed off.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Et tu Boiler Rick? Shocking...

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I'll accept that. They don't have a true #1 and I don't think Hester should be considered it. They should focus on Bennett there but they screwed that up because they made him try to learn everything last year. There is no direction. I really thought the TEs would have more of an impact. I don't know if I'm wrong and they suck or if they aren't being used correctly. They have a lot of athleticism but produce no results. I just think they should be better.

Right, but you are expecting him to play like a savior. And play like a savior despite the glaring holes on offense.

You do see the irony now, correct?

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cutler is not a real franchise QB because this is not a real franchise.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

frank you cant be serious saying brady or manning wouldn't make this team at least 1 game better. Try not to be so hyperbolic when making a point

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What exactly is the definition of "franchise QB?"

I think Cutler definitely is a franchise QB, solely because of the fact that the Bears say he is.

I think when you're going to label a guy as the franchise, you
(1)expect him to be with you for a long time.
(2)You expect that guy, over anyone else, to sell tickets/merch/advertising.
(3)You expect him to be the best player on the team.
(4) As an organization, you build the team around his talents so that he has the best chance to succeed, because you believe he is the most talented player out there.
(5) You expect that eventually, he will lead you to a Super Bowl title.

Now, 1-3 are accomplished. #4 is on the Bears, they've obviously failed at that this year. #5 is on Cutler, who doesn't have the people around him to do it yet. I think (hope) it'll come in time.

Hence, he never looks at wide receivers in the Red Zone. We know it and the other teams know it. Take away Olsen and, more than likely, he'll try to throw it to Olsen anyway and get picked off.

The problem with this stat is that - with the exception of Trent Green - the other guys were all just starting out...not coming off of a Pro Bowl.

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If we nominate Trump we will get destroyed & we'll deserve it.- L Graham
I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.- DJT 2016
MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!- DJT 12/25/23

Perhaps Cutler is just a choker.
- Denver needs 1 win in the last 4 to make the play-offs...Fail!
- Nationally televised game...Fail!
- Red Zone...Fail!

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If we nominate Trump we will get destroyed & we'll deserve it.- L Graham
I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.- DJT 2016
MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!- DJT 12/25/23

Not true. It was Manning's rookie season, Bledsoe's 2nd season, Favre's 7th full season. Another way to look at it is all these guys went on to multiple pro bowls later in their careers....Bledsoe went that year!!
So what does that tell me? Absolutely nothing.
Cutler's having a terrible season thus far... hopefully he'll turn it around.

Farve was not "just starting out" in 1998.

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This thread makes my head hurt.

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Second City Saint

I love the fact that you haven't changed the sig yet, Nas. Keep the faith!

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& I may end up calling the pizza place you noted as well. Time for a pickup on 71st & Euclid

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

My bad...I misunderstood the concept of "1st 9 Team Games"...I should've caught the date

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If we nominate Trump we will get destroyed & we'll deserve it.- L Graham
I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.- DJT 2016
MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!- DJT 12/25/23

I agree completely. I think for whatever reason the defense was simply abysmal in the Cards and Bengals games. But Manning on this team definitely wins the Packers, 49ers, and Falcons game. They would be 6-2 and maybe the 3rd best team in the NFC with Manning or Brady. I'm surprised at how many times I've heard the "Manning would be just as bad on this team" angle from multiple users on this board. It makes me realize how few people care about entire sports, as opposed to just their hometown teams.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Manning and Brady are lots better than Cutler, but surrounded them with the same Oline and WRs that the Bears currently have, 3-5 would be a small miracle. The fact that this keeps being disputed makes me realize that Rick isn't the only one carrying around an axe here.

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I dont think you are even attempting to look at this logically or with any perspective. The Bears are 4-5 now. So you think they would be a game worse somehow through 8 games with Manning or Brady? You are aware that Manning wasnt surrounded by great players his second season in the league, where all he did was win 13 games. You are aware that Brady in the early part of the decade and a makeshift line alot of the time and WR corps that was as weak as the Bears without even someone as dangerous as Hester on the offense, right? And I think he had Kevin Faulk and Antoine Smith as his RBs.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

And Ron Turner's play calling has been just awesome, right? You and Rick, among others, are FAILING to realize that Cutler has ZERO help on offense. Hester is a threat ok, and he's progressed nicely as a WR, but he is not a #1, and what good is that threat if he's running into referees and commiting false starts? Aaron Rodgers at least has some productive wideouts and an Ocoord with a playbook from this century to help him out.

Not to mention that in a few games, they have been down (and sometimes down big) early and had to abandon the run game in order to have any prayer of staying in the game. You want to place almost full blame on Cutler for this mess, and you just say "well other QBs did ok with a bad offense!" Yeah, they probably did, but Manning's early offense was not this bad. Roger's Oline is not this bad. And Brady's WRs were never this bad.

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