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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:23 am 
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But given what the analysts are saying about this QB draft class (I don't watch any college football so I have not seen any of them play), it would seem to make more sense to go after a QB at 35. If they do decide to trade the #3 pick and stockpile picks, then possibly use their 4th round pick to trade the 35 pick up to the 27-32 range if they don't think the QB they want will make it all the way to 35.

I don't see how they trade the #3 pick unless someone really wants Fournette and doesn't want Jacksonville to take them. But a perennial playoff team would have to give up three #1s to get there, and the only teams with two first round picks are Cleveland (who can just pick him at #1) and Tennessee (5+18 with no 2nd round pick). 3+35 for 5+18 and a 4th? Is (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky a reasonable pick at #18?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:49 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The majority of playoff teams this year starting a first round pick at quarterback would agree.


Of the 4 teams that have a bye in this year's NFL playoffs, only one of them found their starting QB by drafting him in the first round.

There are more ways than drafting a QB in the top 5 to get this done. Let's not pick some QB flavor of the draft and burn a top 3 pick.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:09 am 
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I have a question. If a team is in the playoffs,are they allowed to sign a FA or must they just stick to their own practice squad?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:26 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
I have a question. If a team is in the playoffs,are they allowed to sign a FA or must they just stick to their own practice squad?

Didnt the seahawks just sign HEster?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:28 am 
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RFDC wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
I have a question. If a team is in the playoffs,are they allowed to sign a FA or must they just stick to their own practice squad?

Didnt the seahawks just sign HEster?


I'm thinking what if the Bears cut Cutler loose right now,is he free game or do teams have to wait? I'm guessing you can't be on an active roster to be signed by a playoff team.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:04 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The majority of playoff teams this year starting a first round pick at quarterback would agree.


Of the 4 teams that have a bye in this year's NFL playoffs, only one of them found their starting QB by drafting him in the first round.

There are more ways than drafting a QB in the top 5 to get this done. Let's not pick some QB flavor of the draft and burn a top 3 pick.

The Chiefs have a first round qb too. It's disingenuous not to count him.

I guess we can hope we find a Tom Brady type!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
One Post wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The majority of playoff teams this year starting a first round pick at quarterback would agree.


Of the 4 teams that have a bye in this year's NFL playoffs, only one of them found their starting QB by drafting him in the first round.

There are more ways than drafting a QB in the top 5 to get this done. Let's not pick some QB flavor of the draft and burn a top 3 pick.

The Chiefs have a first round qb too. It's disingenuous not to count him.

I guess we can hope we find a Tom Brady type!


In the context of this debate is absolutely is genuine to not consider the Chiefs as a team that solved their QB situation using a first round draft pick.

Was Alex Smith a first round pick? Yes. Was he a first round pick of the Chiefs, the team that he is the QB for? No.

In this thread we are talking about drafting a QB in the first round for the Bears. I assume you want him to be good for the Bears, not for the Chiefs, or Raiders, or Colts. I talked about the 4 teams that have a bye in this year's playoffs. Only one of them has a starting QB that they drafted in the first round.

If you are advocating that the Bears trade a second round pick and a conditional pick for a former #1 overall pick who was 19-5-1 in the prior 25 games in which he started with a QB rating of about 95, then I think we will probably be in agreement.

However, that isn't what you are advocating here. You are advocating that the Bears simply take a QB with a high pick because it has worked out for some other teams. Maybe you're advocating the Bears take a QB with the first round pick so they can trade him to another team for a second round pick and a conditional pick? I guess that's your point on counting Alex Smith, but to reiterate, I'd rather just take a great player in the top 3 regardless of position as opposed to some QB that you want to trade away in 4 years for some picks.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:05 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
One Post wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The majority of playoff teams this year starting a first round pick at quarterback would agree.


Of the 4 teams that have a bye in this year's NFL playoffs, only one of them found their starting QB by drafting him in the first round.

There are more ways than drafting a QB in the top 5 to get this done. Let's not pick some QB flavor of the draft and burn a top 3 pick.

The Chiefs have a first round qb too. It's disingenuous not to count him.

I guess we can hope we find a Tom Brady type!


In the context of this debate is absolutely is genuine to not consider the Chiefs as a team that solved their QB situation using a first round draft pick.

Was Alex Smith a first round pick? Yes. Was he a first round pick of the Chiefs, the team that he is the QB for? No.

In this thread we are talking about drafting a QB in the first round for the Bears. I assume you want him to be good for the Bears, not for the Chiefs, or Raiders, or Colts. I talked about the 4 teams that have a bye in this year's playoffs. Only one of them has a starting QB that they drafted in the first round.

If you are advocating that the Bears trade a second round pick and a conditional pick for a former #1 overall pick who was 19-5-1 in the prior 25 games in which he started with a QB rating of about 95, then I think we will probably be in agreement.

However, that isn't what you are advocating here. You are advocating that the Bears simply take a QB with a high pick because it has worked out for some other teams. Maybe you're advocating the Bears take a QB with the first round pick so they can trade him to another team for a second round pick and a conditional pick? I guess that's your point on counting Alex Smith, but to reiterate, I'd rather just take a great player in the top 3 regardless of position as opposed to some QB that you want to trade away in 4 years for some picks.
Disingenuous.

My point is I want a qb with a first round grade. You can't use Alex Smith to argue against me when he had a first round grade. Would you have not let me use Peyton Manning too?

But hey I am with you. Let's get a hall of fame qb in the sixth round this year!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

My point is I want a qb with a first round grade.


If this is the case then you should just want the Bears to resign Cutler.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:43 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

My point is I want a qb with a first round grade.


If this is the case then you should just want the Bears to resign Cutler.

If there was no trade deadline, do you think the Bears could have gotten Oakland's first round pick for a healthy Cutler once their backup McGloin went down?

I don't know if they could have gotten a first straight out, but I think they could have gotten a second with conditions to get the first on a Raiders' Super Bowl advancement.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:00 am 
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One Post wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

My point is I want a qb with a first round grade.


If this is the case then you should just want the Bears to resign Cutler.
Well they don't have to sign him.

However you seem incapable of understanding the point so until you show you at least understand my argument I won't argue stupid responses.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:05 am 
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Rick, what exactly do you want the Bears to do with their first pick? Draft Mitch (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:18 am 
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Does Tyrod Taylor interest anyone?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:49 pm 
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People shit on him because of the system he plays in but Pat Mahomes looks a lot like a taller Russell Wilson. Elusive inside and outside the pocket with a monster arm. Pro days will hopefully give us a better idea of these guys stocks but he could be an intriguing option at #35.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:12 pm 
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312player wrote:
Rick, what exactly do you want the Bears to do with their first pick? Draft Mitch (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky?
It's too early to know which qb will be there with a first round grade but if one is there I want them to draft him. If they can trade down and get him a few spots later that would obviously be fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Fuck you Rozner. Fuck you. How many are times are you going to write the same column? MCGOWANNNNNNNNNNNN


updated: 1/7/2017 7:42 PM
Rozner: Pace of Bears rebuild painfully slow

Two years is an eternity in the parity-stricken NFL.

That's enough time to completely turn over a roster and build a competitive team.


But Bears GM Ryan Pace is still talking about the 2014 Bears.

"I think when we came here, I think you realized, 'Hey, there's no quick overnight fix,' " Pace said when he met the media last week, seeing his shadow for the first time in months. "There's a lot of heavy lifting that's going to take place."

After first saying when hired that they could make great strides, and suggesting after 2015 that the Bears were close after a 6-win season, Pace and John Fox after a 3-win season are now subtly reminding everyone that they inherited a bad team.

Like a politician eight years into a term still blaming the previous administration, Pace can no longer use this as an excuse.

You've had two years. This is your team. Your players. You own it.

Save the "quick fix" nonsense.

But at least Pace has finally figured out, after losing games in the final minutes of halves and games, that he needs difference-makers.

"I honestly think we need to add more playmakers to our secondary. We need to add more ball skills to our secondary," Pace said. "That's on me and we'll do that."

That is on Pace and he should have done it already.

While drafting a luxury in Kevin White with his very first selection, and a project in Leonard Floyd with his second No. 1 pick, Pace ignored what was painfully obvious to just about anyone watching.

Yes, the Bears need playmakers in the secondary. They need playmakers at virtually every level of the defense and offense.

Floyd may turn out to be one of those guys, someone who can change a game with a single play, but as it stands now, how many players do the Bears have who can stop an opposing offense on the defining drive of the game? How many players do they have on offense who can give the Bears the lead in the final minute of a game?

The answer is not a good one.

They need a pair of safeties. They need a pair of corners. They need someone in the middle of the defensive line that wreaks havoc -- and can stay on the field -- and someone who consistently gets to the quarterback and disrupts everything the opposition offense tries to do.

On offense, they're still short a pair of tackles. Sure, they need a quarterback, but if you can't keep him off his back, it doesn't much matter.

Alshon Jeffery doesn't seem to want to be here and this regime is hardly in love with him, so the Bears are still looking for a pair of receivers who can change a game in a single play.

Tight end Zach Miller had great chemistry with Jay Cutler, but it appears Cutler's Bears career is coming to an end and Miller has had terrible luck with injuries.

So, yes, there is a lot of work to be done and the Bears haven't made much progress in the last two years.

But they speak out of both sides of their mouth when saying there is "heavy lifting" to be done, while also claiming great progress with young players who had to play because of injuries.

We know this because the Bears have told us over and over again about the injuries they suffered and all the try-hard youngsters who played so well for them.

The result was a 3-13 record, tying for the most defeats in the 96-year history of the franchise (1-13 in 1969), and the first 3-win Bears season since the NFL went to a 16-game season 38 years ago.

If you're desperate for good news, the Bears get to coach at the Senior Bowl, which is a huge advantage for a team searching for players.

The Bears also have a very high draft pick and lots of cap space, and if they can bring in four or five players who can instantly make a difference, they could improve by four or five victories next year.

Whether that's enough to help Pace and Fox keep their jobs a year from now remains to be seen.

brozner@dailyherald.com

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:20 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Fuck you Rozner. Fuck you. How many are times are you going to write the same column? MCGOWANNNNNNNNNNNN


updated: 1/7/2017 7:42 PM
Rozner: Pace of Bears rebuild painfully slow

Two years is an eternity in the parity-stricken NFL.

That's enough time to completely turn over a roster and build a competitive team.



Wow. That's a terrible column. If the Bears get 4-5 impact guys they could win 4-5 more games.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
One Post wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

My point is I want a qb with a first round grade.


If this is the case then you should just want the Bears to resign Cutler.
Well they don't have to sign him.

However you seem incapable of understanding the point so until you show you at least understand my argument I won't argue stupid responses.


No, I understand your argument. You just want a QB with a first round grade. That's Jay Cutler. He's a QB with a first round grade, just like Alex Smith, and Jamarcus Russell, and Jim Druckenmiller.

Everyone arguing against you just wants to take the 3rd best player in the draft.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:48 pm 
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I agree with Rick that if a QB is the 8th or 9th best player, you draft him at 3.

I don't think any QB will be ranked that high though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:00 am 
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I say any QB in the top 25 on the Bears big board has to be a consideration at #3. Trade ups back into the the first will be expensive and at the same time the Bears cant be just hoping their guy falls to #35. The teens and twenties are littered with teams that are going to be poking around at QB's: Bills at #10, Cleveland at #12, Arizona at #13, Redskins at #17, Broncos at #20, Dolphins at #22, Houston will be a huge threat at (I imagine after the Patriots finish blowing them out) at #25 and then there's Cleveland and the 49ers again at #33 and #34. Not to mention the "draft a QB even if you dont need one" trend that's spreading through the NFL may accelerate with a team spending their first rounder on a guy. Its impossible to tell who that team is or who they are targeting, also.

Ultimately I think I side with drafting Hooker at #3 and then being prepared to burn the 2018 1st to move up and get the QB they like if it feels like its even a possibility he wont slip to #35. The Bears inability to create turnovers is almost as big a drag on their potential for success as the QB quagmire.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:05 am 
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How often are the Bears in position to draft 3? You have to take the best talent regardless of the position. Drafting for need in the top three picks is a sure way to stay terrible.

Yeah there were multiple Pro Bowl quality talents, but this quarterback had a first round grade. It seems ridiculous to debate.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:31 am 
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My hope is that the two teams ahead of the Bears feel desperate to draft a QB and Miles Garrett is gift wrapped for The Beloved.

Its still early boys. Let's see what these guys have at the Combine and school pro days. We are making definitive statements about QB ability with only half the information.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:44 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
How often are the Bears in position to draft 3? You have to take the best talent regardless of the position. Drafting for need in the top three picks is a sure way to stay terrible.

Yeah there were multiple Pro Bowl quality talents, but this quarterback had a first round grade. It seems ridiculous to debate.
It's not exactly drafting for need. It is knowing quarterback is more important than other positions.

You wouldn't draft a future hall of fame kicker at 3.

I can't wait to see who we get at three that is a lock for an elite career!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:52 am 
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Would be happy with trading down. Would be happy drafting an elite tackle or d lineman. Would not be happy reaching for a QB at 3... Especially a Kevin white esqe pro day over achiever type who due to measurables shoots up draft boards between now and the draft.

I'm hoping if they stay at 3 the pick is not a project...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:45 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
How often are the Bears in position to draft 3? You have to take the best talent regardless of the position. Drafting for need in the top three picks is a sure way to stay terrible.

Yeah there were multiple Pro Bowl quality talents, but this quarterback had a first round grade. It seems ridiculous to debate.
It's not exactly drafting for need. It is knowing quarterback is more important than other positions.

You wouldn't draft a future hall of fame kicker at 3.

I can't wait to see who we get at three that is a lock for an elite career!


I think both Garrett and Allen will be in a Pro Bowl. This is what McShay is saying about the quarterbacks:

Quote:
This is not a great quarterback class. None of these guys is currently in my Top 32, and I've been saying for a while that there aren't any franchise-changers in this group. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky had a great season for the Tar Heels, but I'd be wary about spending a high pick on him because of his limited starting experience. The UNC QB officially announced he's entering the draft on Monday.


So the entire argument might be moot, because it could be that there are zero quarterbacks with a first round grade.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:24 am 
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I would love to see the Bears draft the UNC kid at 3. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:27 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I would love to see the Bears draft the UNC kid at 3. :lol:


I loved Marquise Williams and I think he ended up being an UDFA

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:37 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:06 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
My hope is that the two teams ahead of the Bears feel desperate to draft a QB and Miles Garrett is gift wrapped for The Beloved.

Its still early boys. Let's see what these guys have at the Combine and school pro days. We are making definitive statements about QB ability with only half the information.

That really is the best thing that could happen.

FF, what makes you sure the QB from UNC is going to be a bust?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:23 pm 
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If Watson is there in the 2nd round I'd take him, IMO he's the best of the bunch, I think he'll play great tonight and move up into the first round though..I wouldn't draft any other QB in the first 3 rounds besides him.

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