It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:20 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 746 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:05 am
Posts: 25181
Location: Cultural Mecca
pizza_Place: Pequod's / Barnaby's
Also telling, the NFL gods have removed pretty much all photos and video of the play from the internet. SI removed their video, Twitter had several that are all gone, and there are one or two blurry, indeterminable photos I can find on Google.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 88693
Location: To the left of my post
Chus wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Chus wrote:
I'm not playing the hypothetical game. I would rather just focus on this actual play.
Ok fine.

On the actual play, a player is touching the ball with his knee on the ground out of bounds. Is that correct?
Therefore, the play is dead at that exact moment. Is that correct?
So, even if it was a fumble then the play is dead at the moment that any player on the field touches both out of bounds and the ball. Is that correct?


As the rules are stated, yes. I'm not arguing for or against the rule. I'm saying that it looked like the ball slipped out of his hands (it was raining) while he was diving in the air. When his toe hit out of bounds, the ball was already out.

It's not like this was a play against the Lions where my biases could possibly affect my judgment. I was watching as a fan of neither team, but the game itself.

I think we are just repeating ourselves at this point.
So it was a bad call then.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34796
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza
We should know by tomorrow if the NFL thinks it was a blown call or not. In the Lions/Cowboys game a couple years back, the NFL officially apologized to the Lions on a Tuesday, for a horrendous non-call.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/det ... all-010615

The Lions still should have won that game regardless of the non-call. Jim Caldwell decided that 20 points was enough, and played to punt the entire second half.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 9340
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
I'd be stunned if they apologize. The Zack Miller TD being overturned was actually worse than this amd they released a long bullshit statement on how it was the correct call. I flipped off my phone.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 31935
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
Hockey Gay wrote:
I'd be stunned if they apologize. The Zack Miller TD being overturned was actually worse than this amd they released a long bullshit statement on how it was the correct call. I flipped off my phone.


Oh I agree. That Miller call was a thing. This was not as clear cut, but I am really leaning towards Rick's thoughts on this.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Chus wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
IMU wrote:
It was the wrong call. This is an insane 15 page argument.


I don't get how they can add new info to the challenge. Fox challenged whether he got out of bounds or not. Then they add the fumble/touchback to the equation. No one was challenging if he kept possession. What if they saw a facemask penalty that they missed during the play, they can't add that penalty on after the fact. It all just made no sense to me.


They shouldn't be able to change anything except what is being challenged. That's crap.

Why do they even announce what they are challenging if anything can be looked at?

When the ref announces the challenge, he should just say "The Bears are challenging the ruling on the field of everything that happened on the play."


Why not? The point of replay is to make the correct calls. Those rules in previous years where you couldn't challenge if the call was made one way, but you could if was called the other way, were stupid. You literally couldn't challenge calls even when they were clearly wrong, simply because the wrong call was made. That's insane. Personally, I wouldn't mind going back to no replay at all. But you can't un-ring that bell. If there is a replay system, then everything should be subject to review.


I don't have time to read all the rest of this so I apologize if it has been argued for 2 pages, but the point, at least the point I tried to make yesterday, is that it isn't.

"Everything is under review" except if I see a clear holding penalty or that guy had a PI or there's a facemask, etc....

It should be "I am challenging this - yes or no?" But, it isn't. And yesterday, Bears aside, was bullshit.


That's my beef. If they saw that the fumble was caused by a missed facemask, they wouldn't have called the penalty. Yet they can review someone being out of bounds and somehow end up with a turnover.

I'm leaning towards no more replay in football or baseball. In two games in a row the replay official got it wrong. That shouldn't be happening...

And in baseball, you've got a fat old fuck deciding what is a ball and a strike based on his whims on every pitch and youre gonna review if a guys foot popped off the bag for a millisecond? That pickoff play against the Nats is a prime example, it helped the Cubs but it was 100% bullshit.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
The NFL will never apologize for the call yesterday.

Even if they issue an explanation, it won't address the best argument, which is that there was absolutely not enough evidence to make that call via replay.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Chus wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
This isn't about winning or losing a football game, Chus. It is about the refs getting a call wrong, and you not admitting your error. At least the NFL admits when they were wrong. On here, you never do.


I must have missed their apology this morning.

This won't be responded to.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
FavreFan wrote:
Chus wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
This isn't about winning or losing a football game, Chus. It is about the refs getting a call wrong, and you not admitting your error. At least the NFL admits when they were wrong. On here, you never do.


I must have missed their apology this morning.

This won't be responded to.


They usually do all the apologies on Tuesday - after they fuck up the Monday night game.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:31 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 101533
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
FavreFan wrote:
Chus wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
This isn't about winning or losing a football game, Chus. It is about the refs getting a call wrong, and you not admitting your error. At least the NFL admits when they were wrong. On here, you never do.


I must have missed their apology this morning.

This won't be responded to.
According to the NFL rulebook that JLN posted, the refs got the call wrong.

_________________
ltg wrote:
[Fields will] be the starting QB on an NFL roster at the start of next season. Book It!
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:04 pm
Posts: 12561
Location: Lake of the Ozarks (whenever I can)
pizza_Place: Mauries Table
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Chus wrote:
In that picture he posted, the ball is already out.
Doesn't matter. He is touching the ball while also touching out of bounds. The ball is dead at that exact moment. Fumbling doesn't change that.

This was the ref's explanation along with Cunningham's thoughts...

“As he was lunging toward the goal line, he lost the ball in his right hand first, probably, I’m going to guess, 2 feet maybe short of the pylon,” referee Tony Corrente told a pool reporter. “As he got even closer, the left hand came off. We had to put together two different angles in order to see both hands losing the football. After he lost it the second time, it went right into the pylon.”

Cunningham said he thought it was a TD at first, but he agreed with the call after watching the replay. "When I watched the review, I felt like they made the right call," Cunningham said. "Just a bad play on my part, but the refs got it right."

_________________
If we nominate Trump we will get destroyed & we'll deserve it.- L Graham
I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.- DJT 2016
MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN, MERRY CHRISTMAS!- DJT 12/25/23


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Guess that settles it. Good thread by all involved.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 88693
Location: To the left of my post
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Chus wrote:
In that picture he posted, the ball is already out.
Doesn't matter. He is touching the ball while also touching out of bounds. The ball is dead at that exact moment. Fumbling doesn't change that.

This was the ref's explanation along with Cunningham's thoughts...

“As he was lunging toward the goal line, he lost the ball in his right hand first, probably, I’m going to guess, 2 feet maybe short of the pylon,” referee Tony Corrente told a pool reporter. “As he got even closer, the left hand came off. We had to put together two different angles in order to see both hands losing the football. After he lost it the second time, it went right into the pylon.”

Cunningham said he thought it was a TD at first, but he agreed with the call after watching the replay. "When I watched the review, I felt like they made the right call," Cunningham said. "Just a bad play on my part, but the refs got it right."

So JLN was wrong?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34796
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza
Rich Campbell: "It was obvious after watching the replay one time, that Benny Cunningham fumbled the ball before it hit the pylon."

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 88693
Location: To the left of my post
Chus wrote:
Rich Campbell: "It was obvious after watching the replay one time, that Benny Cunningham fumbled the ball before it hit the pylon."

So JLN was wrong?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Dan Durkin: "They've shown that replay multiple times now, Cunningham was out of bounds before the ball moved. That's a really bad call."

Greg Gabriel: "On that controversial replay call in Bears game, Cunningham’s knee was clearly down before he lost possession of ball. Another blown call by NFL officials in NY."

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34796
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

Cunningham said he thought it was a TD at first, but he agreed with the call after watching the replay. "When I watched the review, I felt like they made the right call," Cunningham said. "Just a bad play on my part, but the refs got it right."


The ball carrier himself said it was a fumble? :lol:

I guess we can close the file on that one.

Image


/thread

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
No, it doesn’t. He also said he thought it was a touchdown, which clearly wasn’t the case. He’s looking at a replay like everyone else. Oh, and he can be fined for saying it was wrong.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:05 am
Posts: 25181
Location: Cultural Mecca
pizza_Place: Pequod's / Barnaby's
Holy fuck, how is this regressing? No one is questioning the fumble call. The ball was dead after the fumble but before it went into the end zone (touched the pylon). It was the wrong call.

Chus is just trolling now, I guess.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
Chus wrote:
Rich Campbell: "It was obvious after watching the replay one time, that Benny Cunningham fumbled the ball before it hit the pylon."


If Peanut Tillman ball-punches someone at the 7-yard line and it flies and hits the pylon, is it the other team's ball?

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68609
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
IMU wrote:
Holy fuck, how is this regressing? No one is questioning the fumble call. The ball was dead after the fumble but before it went into the end zone (touched the pylon). It was the wrong call.

Chus is just trolling now, I guess.


Yeah it has been shown to be a moot point.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:52 pm
Posts: 12551
Location: Ex-Naperville, Ex-Homewood, Now Tinley Park
pizza_Place: Oh I'm sorry but, there's no one on the line
But Cunningham did not make a non-football move to complete the action of the fumble, therefore it was merely out of bounds.

_________________
"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34796
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Chus wrote:
Rich Campbell: "It was obvious after watching the replay one time, that Benny Cunningham fumbled the ball before it hit the pylon."


If Peanut Tillman ball-punches someone at the 7-yard line and it flies and hits the pylon, is it the other team's ball?


I believe that would be Bears ball at their own 20.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:41 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 101533
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Wrong.

_________________
ltg wrote:
[Fields will] be the starting QB on an NFL roster at the start of next season. Book It!
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34796
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Wrong.


http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/fumble

Quote:
Fumble
The distinction between a fumble and a muff should be kept in mind in considering rules about fumbles. A fumble is the loss of player possession of the ball. A muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.
A fumble may be advanced by any player on either team regardless of whether recovered before or after ball hits the ground.
A fumble that goes forward and out of bounds will return to the fumbling team at the spot of the fumble unless the ball goes out of bounds in the opponent’s end zone. In this case, it is a touchback.
On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If any player fumbles after the two-minute warning in a half, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If recovered by any other offensive player, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble unless it is recovered behind the spot of the fumble. In that case, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery. Any defensive player may recover and/or advance any fumble at any time.
A muffed hand-to-hand snap from center is treated as a fumble.


The pylon is an extension of the end zone.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:53 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 101533
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Chus wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Chus wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Image



The ball is out.


His right hand is touching it and he is out of bounds. By rule that is a dead ball.


Touching the ball is not the same thing as possessing the ball. When he had the ball, it was in both hands. In that picture, the ball is out.


Rule 3, Sec. 21, Article 3, Item 2:Loose Ball. A loose ball is out of bounds when it touches a boundary line or anything that is on or outside such line, including a player, an official, or a pylon.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/20 ... -of-bounds


NFL rulebook says the pylon is outside such line. Might as well log off and try again tomorrow. You can do no worse than you did today

_________________
ltg wrote:
[Fields will] be the starting QB on an NFL roster at the start of next season. Book It!
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34796
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza
I guess I read it incorrectly.

(a) If a ball is fumbled in the field of play, and goes forward into the opponent’s end zone and over the end line or sideline, a touchback is awarded to the defensive team

I read this as a fumble into the end zone, since the pylon is part of the end zone. Like orthopedic shoes, I stand corrected. See Frank, I can admit when I'm wrong. Take a victory lap.

None of that changes the fact that he was not down, as MANY suggested he was, nor does JLN's picture prove anything either way, as the ball was already out. It also doesn't change the fact that I have seen at two losses directly blamed on the referees.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
I don’t care about the game. I’m trying to flesh out this stupid rule.

What if the Peanut ball punch flies just to the right of the pylon? Turnover or offensive team ball at the point it crossed the out of bounds line?

I bet no ref would know what that ruling should be.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:15 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 101533
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Even when admitting guilt, Chus doubles down on the JLN post and says something else wrong. Unbelievable.

_________________
ltg wrote:
[Fields will] be the starting QB on an NFL roster at the start of next season. Book It!
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:16 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 101533
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
The offense would keep the ball at the spot of the fumble, Dr Ken.

_________________
ltg wrote:
[Fields will] be the starting QB on an NFL roster at the start of next season. Book It!
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 746 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group