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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:43 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
but what has Pickens done that has you clamoring for him?


Well for one, he has more receiving yards and TDs in 2022 than Claypool.


He'll still be lucky if he has the stats Claypool put up in his first 2 years. If those numbers didn't make Claypool special, I can't see why worse numbers would make Pickens elite.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:46 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Nas wrote:
My hope is Claypool and Fields develop some chemistry over the remaining games. Mooney is a nice player, but Claypool gives Fields something that no other player on the roster can provide. He can beat good cornerbacks, has an insane catch radius, and he's excellent at winning 50/50 balls or getting a DPI.

Man you really love this guy.


I don't usually want the Bears to trade for a guy that I think sucks. I'm pretty sure I preferred Watson over the more accomplished Pickens in the 2nd round. The Packers did as well, and I believe the Bears did too.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:14 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
but what has Pickens done that has you clamoring for him?


Well for one, he has more receiving yards and TDs in 2022 than Claypool.


He'll still be lucky if he has the stats Claypool put up in his first 2 years. If those numbers didn't make Claypool special, I can't see why worse numbers would make Pickens elite.


Claypool had Big Ben passing to him his first two years. Pickens has Mitch and rookie Kenny Pickett throwing to him.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:30 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Tomlin clearly grew disenchanted with Claypool because of his immaturity, which most famously manifested itself in the Vikings game last year. But Tomlin publicly addressed Claypool's immaturity before that game and apparently demoted him this season due to the same concerns.

It's rather strange that you are making a racially-inflected accusation to discredit Tomlin when you have previously described him as a great coach. That coach had both Pickens and Claypool on his roster at the same time, and he chose Pickens over Claypool. It's fine that you prefer Claypool, but the evidence isn't working in your favor at this point.

I think it's clear that the Steelers decided to cut ties with Claypool at some point late last season and drafted Pickens to replace him. They apparently didn't think much of Claypool but waited for the bad publicity swirling around him to dissipate so they could find a sucker--er, a trading partner--to give them a high draft pick in exchange for an asset of questionable value. That sucker was Ryan Poles. It will take another year to see who was right, but the Steelers have a pretty good track record in identifying top wideouts. Poles couldn't even tell that Jenkins was by far the best offensive lineman on his roster, and the offensive line is presumably his area of expertise.


I feel comfortable with my statement about Tomlin's preference. He favors the "manly man" and the fist fighters over a cerebral and well spoken guy. Pickens and Johnson have done far more bitching than Claypool ever has. They're his type of guys, though.

I know you're hellbent on proving that Poles isn't good, but what has Pickens done that has you clamoring for him? Make a few highlight catches? He's having a very pedestrian rookie year. Maybe he'll become an elite WR, and Poles will suck. At this point, there is more proof that Poles won't suck than there is of Pickens being an elite receiver.


You can feel comfortable all you want with your opinion. That doesn't make it accurate. Your views directly contradict what Tomlin himself said about Claypool over a year ago. It seems, then, that you are doing mental gymnastics to justify your positive view of Poles. Frankly, I'm not sure what to make of him at this point. The team is too barren of talent on the defensive line to judge his 2nd round picks accurately. Braxton Jones has steadily improved, and that bodes well for his future. The rest of the class hasn't shown much, and Velus Jones looks more and more like a panic pick with each passing game.

You say that Pickens is having a pedestrian year but he's performing at the same level as Claypool. Claypool, though, is a third-year pro while Pickens is a rookie. If Pickens is pedestrian, what is Claypool? A cripple? And there's absolutely no question Poles botched his draft management in the same way he miscalculated on the Bates offer. As I've pointed out, it's more advantageous to have Gordon or Brisker, Pickens, and a top 3 2nd round pick in 2023 than it is to have Gordon, Brisker and Claypool with only 1.5 years remaining on a rookie deal.

Oh, and the notion that Tomlin doesn't like Claypool because he's "too cerebral" is hilarious. :lol: Have you actually seen him interviewed? "Cerebral" isn't exactly the first word that comes to mind when describing him. Is he writing philosophical treatises in his spare time or something? :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:38 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
but what has Pickens done that has you clamoring for him?


Well for one, he has more receiving yards and TDs in 2022 than Claypool.


He'll still be lucky if he has the stats Claypool put up in his first 2 years. If those numbers didn't make Claypool special, I can't see why worse numbers would make Pickens elite.


Claypool had Big Ben passing to him his first two years. Pickens has Mitch and rookie Kenny Pickett throwing to him.


Pickens would have bitched and moaned about noodled arm Ben. Big Ben would have then whooped his ass.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:43 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
but what has Pickens done that has you clamoring for him?


Well for one, he has more receiving yards and TDs in 2022 than Claypool.


He'll still be lucky if he has the stats Claypool put up in his first 2 years. If those numbers didn't make Claypool special, I can't see why worse numbers would make Pickens elite.


Claypool had Big Ben passing to him his first two years. Pickens has Mitch and rookie Kenny Pickett throwing to him.


Pickens would have bitched and moaned about noodled arm Ben. Big Ben would have then whooped his ass.


Good, because Big Ben wasn't very good in his final years with the Steelers. And I'm pretty sure the only people Rapist Roethlisberger has the guts to assault are unsuspecting or incapacitated women.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:03 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Pickens has some Antonio Brown in him, and I don't think he's as talented. Even when they are winning, his teammates have to babysit on one the sidelines so he can stop throwing tantrums. I personally believe Claypool is better.

The jury is definitely out on Poles as a talent evaluator. At this point, the Gordon pick is more questionable than the Brisker pick.
However, he drafted a LT in the 5th round who has graded out, since the Washington game, better than the guy most of us want Poles to give $25M a year to this offseason.


Didn't Claypool have "attitude" problems in Pittsburgh? Has he gotten better or worse since his rookie season? Why does he still catch with his body rather than his hands? Can he even run all routes at his position correctly?

The idea that Claypool is better than Pickens seems suspect at best to me. The fact that the Bears gave up a top 35 pick for 1.5 years of the guy makes things seem even worse, especially after they passed on a comparable talent who they could've acquired for a longer time at a cheaper price.


No, Claypool spoke out of turn a couple of times, and he may not be black enough for Tomlin. Statistically, there is no way to tell if he's gotten better. He played with a quarterback whose arm was weaker than Chad Pennington last year. I know he's been in the top 10 of 50/50 catches since he's been in the NFL.

I believe the Bears were targeting Watson. I don't think the Bears wanted Pickens at all. I think the Bears want Claypool long-term. I suspect they'll figure out a deal in the offseason. Claypool is better than any free agent options, and he eliminates the risk of the unknown in the draft.


Tomlin clearly grew disenchanted with Claypool because of his immaturity, which most famously manifested itself in the Vikings game last year. But Tomlin publicly addressed Claypool's immaturity before that game and apparently demoted him this season due to the same concerns.

It's rather strange that you are making a racially-inflected accusation to discredit Tomlin when you have previously described him as a great coach. That coach had both Pickens and Claypool on his roster at the same time, and he chose Pickens over Claypool. It's fine that you prefer Claypool, but the evidence isn't working in your favor at this point.

I think it's clear that the Steelers decided to cut ties with Claypool at some point late last season and drafted Pickens to replace him. They apparently didn't think much of Claypool but waited for the bad publicity swirling around him to dissipate so they could find a sucker--er, a trading partner--to give them a high draft pick in exchange for an asset of questionable value. That sucker was Ryan Poles. It will take another year to see who was right, but the Steelers have a pretty good track record in identifying top wideouts. Poles couldn't even tell that Jenkins was by far the best offensive lineman on his roster, and the offensive line is presumably his area of expertise.


They also have a history of moving on from top wideouts when they become expensive. Claypool replaced Ju Ju, who replaced AB and so on. It's a nice system if you are good at evaluating the position.


Claypool hadn't become expensive when they traded him.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:05 pm 
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And he hadn’t become a “top wideout”.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:14 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
but what has Pickens done that has you clamoring for him?


Well for one, he has more receiving yards and TDs in 2022 than Claypool.


He'll still be lucky if he has the stats Claypool put up in his first 2 years. If those numbers didn't make Claypool special, I can't see why worse numbers would make Pickens elite.


Claypool had Big Ben passing to him his first two years. Pickens has Mitch and rookie Kenny Pickett throwing to him.


Pickens would have bitched and moaned about noodled arm Ben. Big Ben would have then whooped his ass.


Good, because Big Ben wasn't very good in his final years with the Steelers. And I'm pretty sure the only people Rapist Roethlisberger has the guts to assault are unsuspecting or incapacitated women.


:lol: :lol: I think everyone knew they shouldnt complain loudly on his watch.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:53 pm 
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Can we get back to the original subject, the try hard local kid Caucasian linebacker who will single handedly bring back the Grabowskis to Soldiers Field?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:57 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Can we get back to the original subject, the try hard local kid Caucasian linebacker who will single handedly bring back the Grabowskis to Soldiers Field?

This is like when Sox fans thought Daniel Palka was a good baseball player.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:02 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Can we get back to the original subject, the try hard local kid Caucasian linebacker who will single handedly bring back the Grabowskis to Soldiers Field?


Another feather in Poles hat. He dumped Roquan and replaced him with a non drafted free agent who is giving the Bears similar production.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:16 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Can we get back to the original subject, the try hard local kid Caucasian linebacker who will single handedly bring back the Grabowskis to Soldiers Field?

https://youtu.be/y3KfqgX4y80


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:58 am 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Can we get back to the original subject, the try hard local kid Caucasian linebacker who will single handedly bring back the Grabowskis to Rodgers Field?

FTFY

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:12 am 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Can we get back to the original subject, the try hard local kid Caucasian linebacker who will single handedly bring back the Grabowskis to Soldiers Field?

This is like when Sox fans thought Daniel Palka was a good baseball player.

Did I really have to put the /s there?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:46 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Pickens has some Antonio Brown in him, and I don't think he's as talented. Even when they are winning, his teammates have to babysit on one the sidelines so he can stop throwing tantrums. I personally believe Claypool is better.

The jury is definitely out on Poles as a talent evaluator. At this point, the Gordon pick is more questionable than the Brisker pick.
However, he drafted a LT in the 5th round who has graded out, since the Washington game, better than the guy most of us want Poles to give $25M a year to this offseason.


Didn't Claypool have "attitude" problems in Pittsburgh? Has he gotten better or worse since his rookie season? Why does he still catch with his body rather than his hands? Can he even run all routes at his position correctly?

The idea that Claypool is better than Pickens seems suspect at best to me. The fact that the Bears gave up a top 35 pick for 1.5 years of the guy makes things seem even worse, especially after they passed on a comparable talent who they could've acquired for a longer time at a cheaper price.


No, Claypool spoke out of turn a couple of times, and he may not be black enough for Tomlin. Statistically, there is no way to tell if he's gotten better. He played with a quarterback whose arm was weaker than Chad Pennington last year. I know he's been in the top 10 of 50/50 catches since he's been in the NFL.

I believe the Bears were targeting Watson. I don't think the Bears wanted Pickens at all. I think the Bears want Claypool long-term. I suspect they'll figure out a deal in the offseason. Claypool is better than any free agent options, and he eliminates the risk of the unknown in the draft.


Tomlin clearly grew disenchanted with Claypool because of his immaturity, which most famously manifested itself in the Vikings game last year. But Tomlin publicly addressed Claypool's immaturity before that game and apparently demoted him this season due to the same concerns.

It's rather strange that you are making a racially-inflected accusation to discredit Tomlin when you have previously described him as a great coach. That coach had both Pickens and Claypool on his roster at the same time, and he chose Pickens over Claypool. It's fine that you prefer Claypool, but the evidence isn't working in your favor at this point.

I think it's clear that the Steelers decided to cut ties with Claypool at some point late last season and drafted Pickens to replace him. They apparently didn't think much of Claypool but waited for the bad publicity swirling around him to dissipate so they could find a sucker--er, a trading partner--to give them a high draft pick in exchange for an asset of questionable value. That sucker was Ryan Poles. It will take another year to see who was right, but the Steelers have a pretty good track record in identifying top wideouts. Poles couldn't even tell that Jenkins was by far the best offensive lineman on his roster, and the offensive line is presumably his area of expertise.


They also have a history of moving on from top wideouts when they become expensive. Claypool replaced Ju Ju, who replaced AB and so on. It's a nice system if you are good at evaluating the position.


Claypool hadn't become expensive when they traded him.


No, but he had reached maximum market value and was close to a payday.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:50 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
And he hadn’t become a “top wideout”.


the bears weren't the only team offering a high second for him

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:51 am 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Can we get back to the original subject, the try hard local kid Caucasian linebacker who will single handedly bring back the Grabowskis to Soldiers Field?

This is like when Sox fans thought Daniel Palka was a good baseball player.

Did I really have to put the /s there?

Mine was more a response to the earnest fandom; it was a meta agreement with the tropes outlined in your post.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:54 am 
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I don't quite know what Sandborn is. I'd like to think he is good and that they uncovered an undervalued product. I think he has shown he is more than just the guy who makes tackles because someone has to on a bad defense. I've seen him run down elite speed players at least four times now

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:54 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:26 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I don't quite know what Sandborn is. I'd like to think he is good and that they uncovered an undervalued product. I think he has shown he is more than just the guy who makes tackles because someone has to on a bad defense. I've seen him run down elite speed players at least four times now


He's a guy that the experts likely passed on because he may not have had great measurables. When you watch the game, you see a football player with a nose for the ball. You also see a guy who learns from his mistakes.

Last game he blew up a run by launching himself into two blockers. It forced Aaron Jones to change direction.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:55 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I don't quite know what Sandborn is. I'd like to think he is good and that they uncovered an undervalued product. I think he has shown he is more than just the guy who makes tackles because someone has to on a bad defense. I've seen him run down elite speed players at least four times now


This is literally all R.Smith was and he wanted a max contract :lol:

Poles has some W's and some L's but his L's are not Ryan Pace level L's and his W's are pretty impressive so far.

Need to change my signature to #Sandborn PRO BOWL `23!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:25 pm 
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i think we're talking a minimum 9 peat


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:29 pm 
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I may have to reset the o/u. 6 seems reasonable at this point.

Tall Midget wrote:
I'm conservatively setting the o/u at 4.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:34 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:


Really interesting to hear the thoughts of guys like Holmes, Parkins, and Bernstein when they would talk about Roquan being an "Eliete Player", the truth was that he was nowhere near that good. Roquan Smith would have taken one look at the guard and ran him to avoid contact, opening up a nice run lane.

If you know anything about football, you know that the linebackers must be able to fill a gap, play with leverage and take on a lineman, while keeping their outside shoulder free to make the tackle, simple football 101.

A guy that runs a 4.5 40, but runs an extra 10 yards on each play to avoid contact is much slower to the play than a guy that runs a 4.8 40, but takes a direct line, you can see that when you compare Smith and Sanborn.

It's almost silly listening to the WSCR "experts" try to talk about football because they know less than nothing about the sport.

It's a good thing they are starting to read the posts here, starting to hear a lot of very similar thoughts being shared by the vaunted "Bears Media", especially the annoying plus farm and fleet flannel shirt wearing guy who does the "10 things" crap all the time.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:42 pm 
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Clawmaster wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:


Really interesting to hear the thoughts of guys like Holmes, Parkins, and Bernstein when they would talk about Roquan being an "Eliete Player", the truth was that he was nowhere near that good. Roquan Smith would have taken one look at the guard and ran him to avoid contact, opening up a nice run lane.

If you know anything about football, you know that the linebackers must be able to fill a gap, play with leverage and take on a lineman, while keeping their outside shoulder free to make the tackle, simple football 101.

A guy that runs a 4.5 40, but runs an extra 10 yards on each play to avoid contact is much slower to the play than a guy that runs a 4.8 40, but takes a direct line, you can see that when you compare Smith and Sanborn.

It's almost silly listening to the WSCR "experts" try to talk about football because they know less than nothing about the sport.

It's a good thing they are starting to read the posts here, starting to hear a lot of very similar thoughts being shared by the vaunted "Bears Media", especially the annoying plus farm and fleet flannel shirt wearing guy who does the "10 things" crap all the time.



Good points, I especially like your point about him taking a direct line to the ball carrier.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:46 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Clawmaster wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:


Really interesting to hear the thoughts of guys like Holmes, Parkins, and Bernstein when they would talk about Roquan being an "Eliete Player", the truth was that he was nowhere near that good. Roquan Smith would have taken one look at the guard and ran him to avoid contact, opening up a nice run lane.

If you know anything about football, you know that the linebackers must be able to fill a gap, play with leverage and take on a lineman, while keeping their outside shoulder free to make the tackle, simple football 101.

A guy that runs a 4.5 40, but runs an extra 10 yards on each play to avoid contact is much slower to the play than a guy that runs a 4.8 40, but takes a direct line, you can see that when you compare Smith and Sanborn.

It's almost silly listening to the WSCR "experts" try to talk about football because they know less than nothing about the sport.

It's a good thing they are starting to read the posts here, starting to hear a lot of very similar thoughts being shared by the vaunted "Bears Media", especially the annoying plus farm and fleet flannel shirt wearing guy who does the "10 things" crap all the time.



Good points, I especially like your point about him taking a direct line to the ball carrier.


It is a good point, but I would also add that Roquan's superior speed often let him take better angles to blow up plays than Sanborn can. Sanborn isn't anywhere near as good as Peak Roquan, but we haven't seen that player in a while. I also don't think we've seen Peak Sanborn yet either.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:49 pm 
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Is Peak Sanborn the same as Jim Morrissey?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:13 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Is Peak Sanborn the same as Jim Morrissey?


Eaglo Jeff wrote:
Break on through to the other side!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:45 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Is Peak Sanborn the same as Jim Morrissey?


Eaglo Jeff wrote:
Break on through to the other side!

I'm honored.

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