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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:23 pm 
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NME wrote:
crayphish wrote:
The whole mentor a young Bears quarterback makes me LOL, we’re talking about Gardner Minschew, not Aaron Rodgers. Just throw whoever in there and hope for the best. The Bears have never had anyone who should mentor a young QB, and they still don’t. Fields could mentor a young guy on how to be a decent human being and good leader, and that’s about it.




The idea of mentoring is also about having a competent veteran QB on the field as a placeholder while the rookie adjusts and other players develop like rookie WR’s and a rookie Center. Scoffing at the idea of doing this is odd when it’s been done with success in the past -a recent example being Mahomes sitting behind Alex Smith for a season. It’s not some bizarre foreign concept.


I'm not scoffing at the idea if you already have an established veteran like Alex Smith in place AND he's comfortable in his skin to help out a kid. That's a unique situation. Brett Favre didn't help Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Rodgers didn't give a shit about Love. We've also seen the Bears bring in the giraffe for (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. How does he help a kid who has only played 12 games in college? Foles and Red Rifle still wanted to play when Fields was drafted. Neither played a similar style as him. How were they supposed to help him? Also, Caleb has about 40 college games under his belt; he doesn't need a redshirt year. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Fields didn't have enough college reps. Most young quarterbacks struggle because they have shit talent around them and/or they have limited game reps in college. Just look at the Bears roster when (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was drafted. The beauty of drafting Caleb now is the roster and receivers should be great enough to help him make the adjustment.

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NME
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:24 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
They tried the mentor path with Glennon and Dalton.

I tend to think the guys should play immediately.





Glennon wasn’t fit to carry a clip board -Dalton should have been solid but got hurt early on.

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NME
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:26 pm 
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Nas wrote:
NME wrote:
crayphish wrote:
The whole mentor a young Bears quarterback makes me LOL, we’re talking about Gardner Minschew, not Aaron Rodgers. Just throw whoever in there and hope for the best. The Bears have never had anyone who should mentor a young QB, and they still don’t. Fields could mentor a young guy on how to be a decent human being and good leader, and that’s about it.




The idea of mentoring is also about having a competent veteran QB on the field as a placeholder while the rookie adjusts and other players develop like rookie WR’s and a rookie Center. Scoffing at the idea of doing this is odd when it’s been done with success in the past -a recent example being Mahomes sitting behind Alex Smith for a season. It’s not some bizarre foreign concept.


I'm not scoffing at the idea if you already have an established veteran like Alex Smith in place AND he's comfortable in his skin to help out a kid. That's a unique situation. Brett Favre didn't help Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Rodgers didn't give a shit about Love. We've also seen the Bears bring in the giraffe for (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. How does he help a kid who has only played 12 games in college? Foles and Red Rifle still wanted to play when Fields was drafted. Neither played a similar style as him. How were they supposed to help him? Also, Caleb has about 40 college games under his belt; he doesn't need a redshirt year. (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Fields didn't have enough college reps. Most young quarterbacks struggle because they have shit talent around them and/or they have limited game reps in college. Just look at the Bears roster when (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was drafted. The beauty of drafting Caleb now is the roster and receivers should be great enough to help him make the adjustment.




Unless that’s your gimmick account, I wasn’t quoting you there. I posted a separate response to you.

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:37 pm 
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NME wrote:
Nas wrote:
NME wrote:
crayphish wrote:
The whole mentor a young Bears quarterback makes me LOL, we’re talking about Gardner Minschew, not Aaron Rodgers. Just throw whoever in there and hope for the best. The Bears have never had anyone who should mentor a young QB, and they still don’t. Fields could mentor a young guy on how to be a decent human being and good leader, and that’s about it.




The idea of mentoring is also about having a competent veteran QB on the field as a placeholder while the rookie adjusts and other players develop like rookie WR’s and a rookie Center. Scoffing at the idea of doing this is odd when it’s been done with success in the past -a recent example being Mahomes sitting behind Alex Smith for a season. It’s not some bizarre foreign concept.


I'm not scoffing at the idea if you already have an established veteran like Alex Smith in place AND he's comfortable in his skin to help out a kid. That's a unique situation. Brett Favre didn't help Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Rodgers didn't give a shit about Love. We've also seen the Bears bring in the giraffe for (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. How does he help a kid who has only played 12 games in college? Foles and Red Rifle still wanted to play when Fields was drafted. Neither played a similar style as him. How were they supposed to help him? Also, Caleb has about 40 college games under his belt; he doesn't need a redshirt year. (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Fields didn't have enough college reps. Most young quarterbacks struggle because they have shit talent around them and/or they have limited game reps in college. Just look at the Bears roster when (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was drafted. The beauty of drafting Caleb now is the roster and receivers should be great enough to help him make the adjustment.




Unless that’s your gimmick account, I wasn’t quoting you there. I posted a separate response to you.


It isn't. The Wisemen would have outed it immediately. I'm just blind or old. I quoted and responded to the wrong post. :oops: :oops:

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NME
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:39 pm 
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Nas wrote:
NME wrote:
Nas wrote:
NME wrote:
crayphish wrote:
The whole mentor a young Bears quarterback makes me LOL, we’re talking about Gardner Minschew, not Aaron Rodgers. Just throw whoever in there and hope for the best. The Bears have never had anyone who should mentor a young QB, and they still don’t. Fields could mentor a young guy on how to be a decent human being and good leader, and that’s about it.




The idea of mentoring is also about having a competent veteran QB on the field as a placeholder while the rookie adjusts and other players develop like rookie WR’s and a rookie Center. Scoffing at the idea of doing this is odd when it’s been done with success in the past -a recent example being Mahomes sitting behind Alex Smith for a season. It’s not some bizarre foreign concept.


I'm not scoffing at the idea if you already have an established veteran like Alex Smith in place AND he's comfortable in his skin to help out a kid. That's a unique situation. Brett Favre didn't help Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Rodgers didn't give a shit about Love. We've also seen the Bears bring in the giraffe for (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. How does he help a kid who has only played 12 games in college? Foles and Red Rifle still wanted to play when Fields was drafted. Neither played a similar style as him. How were they supposed to help him? Also, Caleb has about 40 college games under his belt; he doesn't need a redshirt year. (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Fields didn't have enough college reps. Most young quarterbacks struggle because they have shit talent around them and/or they have limited game reps in college. Just look at the Bears roster when (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was drafted. The beauty of drafting Caleb now is the roster and receivers should be great enough to help him make the adjustment.




Unless that’s your gimmick account, I wasn’t quoting you there. I posted a separate response to you.


It isn't. The Wisemen would have outed it immediately. I'm just blind or old. I quoted and responded to the wrong post. :oops: :oops:



All good, it happens

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:40 pm 
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NME wrote:
Nas wrote:
crayphish wrote:
The whole mentor a young Bears quarterback makes me LOL, we’re talking about Gardner Minschew, not Aaron Rodgers. Just throw whoever in there and hope for the best. The Bears have never had anyone who should mentor a young QB, and they still don’t. Fields could mentor a young guy on how to be a decent human being and good leader, and that’s about it.


Most of the "mentors" still want another shot at starting AND they probably didn't have a similar style of play as the kid they're mentoring. The Bears have a QB coach and an entire offensive staff available to help Caleb. They don't need to give a veteran Bagents' job. They can use that money to fill other holes. Hire Alex Smith as a consultant if the kid needs more assistance.




I’m not going to say it’s necessary -but its a break from the path they took with Mitch and Justin. Both were pushed into starting pretty early on in their rookie seasons. If the Bears make the move to draft a QB at #1 I want it to have as much a chance at success as possible -and following a blueprint that helped develop a guy like Mahomes isn’t the worst idea.


For the record I don’t believe the Bears will bring in a vet like this anyway if they draft Williams or Maye. So it’s more food for thought than anything.


I'm trying to be laser focused on C-Will. That said, I don't think the top two quarterbacks in this draft have the same experience deficit that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Fields had. Your plan made sense for them. The Bears actually tried to do it, but they brought in the wrong guys.

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NME
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:41 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
They tried the mentor path with Glennon and Dalton.

I tend to think the guys should play immediately.




Yeah but neither ended up lasting long enough to qualify. That said, I’m not completely opposed to them starting right away either -which is most likely how it’s going to go anyway.

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veganfan21
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:44 pm 
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Nme is misapplying all the clipboard examples. Mahomes, Rodgers, etc aren't apples to apples comparison. None of them entered the league with the fanfare and expectations that Caleb has plus they weren't # 1 picks so there was no expectation or reason to start them. Signing Minshew to start over Williams is out of this world crazy given all the hype and expectations there are for Williams. The examples simply don't work.

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:46 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nme is misapplying all the clipboard examples. Mahomes, Rodgers, etc aren't apples to apples comparison. None of them entered the league with the fanfare and expectations that Caleb has plus they weren't # 1 picks so there was no expectation or reason to start them. Signing Minshew to start over Williams is out of this world crazy given all the hype and expectations there are for Williams. The examples simply don't work.


I slightly disagree with you. Rodgers was considered for the #1 pick. MANY were shocked he fell so far. Obviously, have Favre block you is different than Andy Dalton or Mike Glennon.

Edit: (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Fields may have been ruined by not having a redshirt year. Fields more so than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.

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veganfan21
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:56 pm 
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Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Nme is misapplying all the clipboard examples. Mahomes, Rodgers, etc aren't apples to apples comparison. None of them entered the league with the fanfare and expectations that Caleb has plus they weren't # 1 picks so there was no expectation or reason to start them. Signing Minshew to start over Williams is out of this world crazy given all the hype and expectations there are for Williams. The examples simply don't work.


I slightly disagree with you. Rodgers was considered for the #1 pick. MANY were shocked he fell so far. Obviously, have Favre block you is different than Andy Dalton or Mike Glennon.

Edit: (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Fields may have been ruined by not having a redshirt year. Fields more so than (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.


Yes Rodgers was highly acclaimed but being the 25th pick or whatever and walking into Brett Favres QB room as a rookie is different than being no 1 overall, being called generational, and walking into Gardner Minshew's QB room. One is definitely not like the other.

I agree T.rubisky and Fields would have benefited from sitting but again they are not comparable to Williams based on expectations alone.

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 9:28 pm 
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My ideal situation is to trade fields to Pitt for 20. Draft Caleb. Take 9 and 20 to trade to Arizona for 4 and their second. Draft Harrison at 4

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 9:38 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
My ideal situation is to trade fields to Pitt for 20. Draft Caleb. Take 9 and 20 to trade to Arizona for 4 and their second. Draft Harrison at 4


I doubt you're going to get the Cardinals to move from MHJ. I think the best play would be Fields and #9 to the Patriots.

Also, I'm not seeing anyone talk about MHJ as some all time great talent. I've seen the AJ Green comp a few times. Green was a great player, but I wouldn't give up multiple picks in a great receiver draft for that. Especially if I can land a Higgins like player in free agency.

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NME
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 10:29 pm 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
My ideal situation is to trade fields to Pitt for 20. Draft Caleb. Take 9 and 20 to trade to Arizona for 4 and their second. Draft Harrison at 4


I doubt you're going to get the Cardinals to move from MHJ. I think the best play would be Fields and #9 to the Patriots.

Also, I'm not seeing anyone talk about MHJ as some all time great talent. I've seen the AJ Green comp a few times. Green was a great player, but I wouldn't give up multiple picks in a great receiver draft for that. Especially if I can land a Higgins like player in free agency.




I meant to include this hypothetical in the OP but forgot to.. but yeah, I’m wondering if there’s a way to move with NE to 3 and land both a QB and Harrison in the 1st few picks. Fields and the #9 are interesting.. but I’m wondering if the Bears can find a way to get this years 2nd back too in that trade by offering one of our 2nds next year and maybe another pick this year.

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NME
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 10:33 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nme is misapplying all the clipboard examples. Mahomes, Rodgers, etc aren't apples to apples comparison. None of them entered the league with the fanfare and expectations that Caleb has plus they weren't # 1 picks so there was no expectation or reason to start them. Signing Minshew to start over Williams is out of this world crazy given all the hype and expectations there are for Williams. The examples simply don't work.




I actually didn’t expand or provide too many examples -I just tossed Gardner out there to get the idea across. I never brought up Rodgers.. only Mahomes. Others mentioned Rodgers



It’s pie in the sky anyway because I know everyone is right in pointing out the Bears aren’t doing it. Was just something to add to the discussion for consideration. It’s not something I’m completely sold on -it’s purely hypothetical.

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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:51 pm 
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My wish list sequence:

1. Trade Fields to Atlanta for a 2nd, a 2026 conditional 2nd/4th (2nd if Fields has 65% of snaps in both 2024 and 2025) and swapping the Bears' pick at #9 for the Falcons' pick at #8.

2. Trade #1 to Washington for #2, their 2nd, and their 2025 1st. Draft Drake Maye.

3. Trade the #8, a 3rd, and the Washington 2025 1st to New England for #3. Draft Marvin Harrison, Jr.

The net trade ends up being (Fields, a 3rd, #9, and #1) for (Maye, Harrison, Washington's 2024 2nd, and a conditional Atlanta 2026 2nd/4th.

It only works if the Commanders are willing to overpay to move up from #2 to #1, which would give Poles more capital to make the leap to #3 once New England realizes that both Williams and Maye will be off the board and there's no point drafting Harrison just to have Mac Jones try to throw him the ball into double coverage.

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NME
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:07 am 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
My wish list sequence:

1. Trade Fields to Atlanta for a 2nd, a 2026 conditional 2nd/4th (2nd if Fields has 65% of snaps in both 2024 and 2025) and swapping the Bears' pick at #9 for the Falcons' pick at #8.

2. Trade #1 to Washington for #2, their 2nd, and their 2025 1st. Draft Drake Maye.

3. Trade the #8, a 3rd, and the Washington 2025 1st to New England for #3. Draft Marvin Harrison, Jr.

The net trade ends up being (Fields, a 3rd, #9, and #1) for (Maye, Harrison, Washington's 2024 2nd, and a conditional Atlanta 2026 2nd/4th.

It only works if the Commanders are willing to overpay to move up from #2 to #1, which would give Poles more capital to make the leap to #3 once New England realizes that both Williams and Maye will be off the board and there's no point drafting Harrison just to have Mac Jones try to throw him the ball into double coverage.



Not bad. Some good stuff in here. I like the approach for getting back up to 3 for Harrison Jr.

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I don't care what they do with the picks, but you have to make 100% sure Marvin Harrison Jr is a Bear.

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