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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:34 am 
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Simms basically says it's hard to pick between Burrow, Williams and Luck as prospects. I think he'd give the edge to luck.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:57 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:01 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Simms basically says it's hard to pick between Burrow, Williams and Luck as prospects. I think he'd give the edge to luck.


More elaboration: https://youtu.be/2leBWIY1v6k?si=SxlF7txBmEmyd8NK

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:04 am 
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Nas wrote:
a genius wrote:
2021 his top pick was Zach Wilson


I'm not sure expecting him to be perfect is reasonable. Wilson's problem is his attitude.


That's fair. Also if I heard correctly he (simms) does not try to project intangibles such as someone might handle a major media market (like New York) but rather focuses on game play.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:25 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:32 pm 
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Warner blows Caleb and almost dies choking.

https://youtu.be/0O8VwGueJ0U?si=v5yNm07eQuR93f0O

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:38 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:


That substance on the side of my leg is water.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:44 pm 
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If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:49 pm 
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can you guys quit being two pump chumps

Let it come to you

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:49 pm 
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312player wrote:
If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season


It'll be more than that. You can't keep him on the roster with Caleb Williams because you are wishing he's valuable. You certainly can't pick up his option.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:06 pm 
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its the only reason teams are strongarming us. they know if we keep him he will be worth less. pretty nice card to have for them. just wait, he will only get cheaper.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:12 pm 
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No one is strong arming us. The market is still sorting itself out. We'll know more by next Friday.

Edit: I imagine some teams will know if they are in or out on Cousins by Sunday.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:16 pm 
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i wouldnt take cousins over fields right now. no fucking way. theres more going on. i do think its stigma with chicago. who would possibly want a qb that chicago deemed not enough?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:26 pm 
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312player wrote:
If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season

Would you take a conditional 4th that becomes a 2nd with playing time?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:26 pm 
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I think it's very straightforward: there are better options, including rookies, than Fields. Teams will pursue those options first before looking into Fields.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:42 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I think it's very straightforward: there are better options, including rookies, than Fields. Teams will pursue those options first before looking into Fields.


The market for Fields has spoken. It seems to align with your criticism of him….

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:07 pm 
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Definitely not my criticism or only mine- I gave him about 25 games tho I was skeptical after all his greatest hits in 2022 were rushing performances. I was most excited about him during the Steelers game in his rookie year. I jumped to he's definitively not the answer after the first three games this season and never looked back. Normally I'd say he's not it and leave it at that but I'm driven by this dumbass cult he's got following him around that thinks he's better than Mahomes. It's like parallel realities, sort of like election deniers vs everyone else. I see parallels.

I think nas and rouge were the first to be done with him. For me the data is clearcut and there's a sufficient sample size to see trends and draw conclusions. If Stroud were available at age 25 with one year left on the rookie deal he'd already be scooped up by now. Same with maybe 15 other QBs. Fields is available but people are like "nah, I'll wait or just roll with a rookie. Maybe I can bring him in at a discount to give [insert journeymen QB or rookie QB] competition if no one else picks him up."

That's where we're at with Fields. Like you said, the market tells the truth re: his actual value, not fanboy value.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:11 pm 
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I've seen speculation that Browns might be interested in Fields as a backup to Deshaun if Flacco doesn't come back (Joe wants a chance to start?) and other folks suggesting Atlanta could still trade for Fields if they bring in Cousins or another vet free agent.

Hard to see a team committing that kind of cap space to Fields + top dollar vet to have Fields hold a clipboard for the balance of his rookie contract behind big $$$ free agent--you're not benching Cousins or Watson for Fields absent injury.

Maybe a team that ends up with a down-market vet (Baker Mayfield, Minshew?, Brisset/Taylor/Mariota/Darnold/Bridgewater/et al) brings in Fields with the meh vet on a short-leash and eye toward dumping the vet on the trade market if Fields works out better. That might be the best case scenario for Fields at this point; starting slots might be full up between vet free agent signings and franchises preferring to go year zero on a rookie QB instead of year four with Fields.

And if that's the case, teams unlikely to offer much for Fields. Bears might end up better off keeping him, at least til the in-season trade deadline and some franchise loses a QB to injury.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:15 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
312player wrote:
If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season

Would you take a conditional 4th that becomes a 2nd with playing time?

I'd rather release him during the season than take a 4th round pick. Let whatever team loses the musical chairs of Cousins-Wilson tank a season with Desmond Ridder or Blaine Gabbert over one round if they want.

The Bears have all the leverage with the idea they can simply not trade Fields. Plenty of other QBs have been dealt far worse than getting paid to not play.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:25 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
312player wrote:
If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season

Would you take a conditional 4th that becomes a 2nd with playing time?

I'd rather release him during the season than take a 4th round pick. Let whatever team loses the musical chairs of Cousins-Wilson tank a season with Desmond Ridder or Blaine Gabbert over one round if they want.

The Bears have all the leverage with the idea they can simply not trade Fields. Plenty of other QBs have been dealt far worse than getting paid to not play.


You bring your rookie quarterback into a toxic locker room and you eliminate the 5th year option for any team. That would be professional malpractice.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:27 pm 
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well if the market really is speaking, what do they have to lose by keeping him? he will be pissed to be a backup, but oh well? he would be the best backup in the league, by far, and the bears have a high probability of injuring williams.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:30 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Brick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
312player wrote:
If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season

Would you take a conditional 4th that becomes a 2nd with playing time?

I'd rather release him during the season than take a 4th round pick. Let whatever team loses the musical chairs of Cousins-Wilson tank a season with Desmond Ridder or Blaine Gabbert over one round if they want.

The Bears have all the leverage with the idea they can simply not trade Fields. Plenty of other QBs have been dealt far worse than getting paid to not play.


You bring your rookie quarterback into a toxic locker room and you eliminate the 5th year option for any team. That would be professional malpractice.

Plenty of rookie quarterbacks have a one year rental still on the team. They would just announce Williams as the starter right at the start of camp if it was a big deal.

But teams are going to panic when they have to sell the idea that Desmond Ridder or Blaine Gabbert are the day one starter when it's between a 3rd and 4th round pick. I would guess that even the threat of letting Fields be released would be enough.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:38 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Brick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
312player wrote:
If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season

Would you take a conditional 4th that becomes a 2nd with playing time?

I'd rather release him during the season than take a 4th round pick. Let whatever team loses the musical chairs of Cousins-Wilson tank a season with Desmond Ridder or Blaine Gabbert over one round if they want.

The Bears have all the leverage with the idea they can simply not trade Fields. Plenty of other QBs have been dealt far worse than getting paid to not play.


You bring your rookie quarterback into a toxic locker room and you eliminate the 5th year option for any team. That would be professional malpractice.

Plenty of rookie quarterbacks have a one year rental still on the team. They would just announce Williams as the starter right at the start of camp if it was a big deal.

But teams are going to panic when they have to sell the idea that Desmond Ridder or Blaine Gabbert are the day one starter when it's between a 3rd and 4th round pick. I would guess that even the threat of letting Fields be released would be enough.


This would be different than all of those situations. Fields is a fan and locker room favorite. This isn't like some 2nd or 3rd round quarterback that would be asked to compete with Fields. You would be forcing the first pick in the draft to enter a toxic environment that is sure to have a negative impact on him and possibly divide a locker room.

Fields is sunk cost. If the absolute worst scenario comes to fruition, you take what the market is offering. If that's a 7th round pick, so be it. I don't suspect that will be the case. There is no reason to panic.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:41 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Brick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Brick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
312player wrote:
If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season

Would you take a conditional 4th that becomes a 2nd with playing time?

I'd rather release him during the season than take a 4th round pick. Let whatever team loses the musical chairs of Cousins-Wilson tank a season with Desmond Ridder or Blaine Gabbert over one round if they want.

The Bears have all the leverage with the idea they can simply not trade Fields. Plenty of other QBs have been dealt far worse than getting paid to not play.


You bring your rookie quarterback into a toxic locker room and you eliminate the 5th year option for any team. That would be professional malpractice.

Plenty of rookie quarterbacks have a one year rental still on the team. They would just announce Williams as the starter right at the start of camp if it was a big deal.

But teams are going to panic when they have to sell the idea that Desmond Ridder or Blaine Gabbert are the day one starter when it's between a 3rd and 4th round pick. I would guess that even the threat of letting Fields be released would be enough.


This would be different than all of those situations. Fields is a fan and locker room favorite. This isn't like some 2nd or 3rd round quarterback that would be asked to compete with Fields. You would be forcing the first pick in the draft to enter a toxic environment that is sure to have a negative impact on him and possibly divide a locker room.

Fields is sunk cost. If the absolute worst scenario comes to fruition, you take what the market is offering. If that's a 7th round pick, so be it. I don't suspect that will be the case. There is no reason to panic.


Yep. It'd be gross mismanagement to have Williams and Fields occupy the same space. It is what it is - if Fields wanted to have more clarity on his next stop he could have invested more time in being a better quarterback.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:00 pm 
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Timing and Anticipation
My biggest concern with Williams’ game is that I didn’t see a ton of anticipation throws in college. There wasn’t always urgency in his desire and ability to get rid of the ball quickly. I wanted to see more plays where he planted his foot in the ground at the top of his drop and got the ball out in rhythm.

Was this tendency the result of Williams not forcing the issue unless a receiver was wide open since he knows he has a tremendous ability to make plays late in the down?

Or was it an inability to process and make decisions quickly?

Whatever the answer is, he won’t get away with the same style of play quite as often against NFL defenses.

Take a play like this for example. To the right, USC had a curl-dig-flat combination called:


Williams looked at the curl first but didn’t like it because the underneath defender jumped it. That left the dig wide open:


Williams should have been ready to throw the dig right off of his receiver’s break as this was a pretty clean read. But you can see below that Williams still hadn’t started his throwing motion after his receiver was out of his break and already staring back at him:


https://footballfilmroom.substack.com/p ... lliams-3d3

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:11 pm 
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I was trying to dig up dirt on Williams, went through his trash when they put it out on the curb and all I found were empty nail polish bottles, wads of tear-stained kleenex and a dog-eared copy of How to Win Friends & Influence People....

sounds like his teammates other than that one dback who made the comment after the bowl game win over Louisville really like the guy.

If the Cowgirls can hold it together when Romo was benched for Dak, Williams would be fine with Fields in the corner staring daggers into his back after every game. Fields could be Alex Smith to C-Will's Mahomes. Maybe watching Williams every Sunday would improve Fields' game.

If Bears kept Fields, they'd likely have to do a Jordan Love type deal where they give Fields a contract to cover the 5th year and normalize the 5th year balloon payment over 2 seasons to protect his trade value, I think that's how that would work.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:23 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
312player wrote:
If we can only get a 4th rounder for Fields, I'd rather keep him and try to trade him during the season

Would you take a conditional 4th that becomes a 2nd with playing time?


Absolutely.. there will be a couple injuries.. if we can't get atleast a 3rd before the draft.. I'd keep him and hopefully get atleast that during the season or before the season kicks off.. I don't give a fuck about he and williams in the same locker room.. competition breeds success. It'll show a lot more insight on both guys. Montana and Young consisted, Farve and Rodgers, manning and luck.. all far better these two unproven guys.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:44 pm 
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You can't keep him hoping to trade him during the season.

Think about it.

You're not gonna pick up his option if you keep him. So he'll be a free agent after the season. Why would somebody give up draft picks for 8 games or so because of an injury to their QB? He won't save that team's season cuz he won't know the offense or feel comfortable with their players. You might get something for him, but not what you could get if you trade him now. Plus, trading him now, you give the team you trade him to the option to pick up that contract option on him.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 7:55 am 
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While one scout noted his 33 fumbles in 31 college starts, Williams’ physical ability isn’t what raises concerns. The consensus from league sources is there’s no questioning his talent.

Issues raised about Williams’ style of play quickly turned into praise. For example, one executive expressed concerns about Williams’ processing at the NFL level but then highlighted his rare ability to change his arm angles and also his quick release.

“The ceiling is too high,” another scout on an opposing team said.

He went on to lay out the best scenario for Williams, which would be a veteran locker room in which Williams wouldn’t have to necessarily come in and be in charge. The Bears hope they have that with receiver DJ Moore, tight end Cole Kmet and their leaders on defense.

Two additional sources familiar with Williams said there’s another thing that isn’t a debate — the quarterback’s love for football. Williams’ USC teammates have praised him at every stop since their season has ended.

Justin Fields and the Bears
Throughout the week of the combine, multiple league sources suggested that the trade market for Fields wasn’t as strong as you’d think or as the Bears had hoped.

All it takes is one team to change that. But Poles’ messaging early in the week was interpreted as a strong sign around the league that he wanted to trade Fields sooner rather than later.

“Justin’s going to be gone,” a scout said. “That writing is on the wall.”

“It’s just time to move on,” an executive said.

But those evaluators and others still had questions about Fields. His ability to process and slower release were mentioned several times, including by a quarterbacks coach.



https://theathletic.com/5313760/2024/03 ... in-fields/

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:07 am 
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Will this have any impact on the Bears decision to draft Caleb Williams?



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