It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:34 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 281 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:05 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:51 pm
Posts: 7044
Location: Southside
pizza_Place: Baracco's
NME wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Why do you believe Fox is anything other than a slightly better version of Lovie Smith (if that)? Prior to this season, Smith's career winning pct. was .565; Fox's career winning pct. is 570. It could be reasonably argued that Smith has coached less talented teams than Fox has.





How so? Defensively both had talent, so that washes out. Outside of Steve Smith, what elite talent did the Panthers ever have on offense?

Fox won't struggle to find coordinators and isn't afraid to hire ones that could bolt for HC jobs. Fox has also been more adaptable over the years to fit the talent on the teams he coaches where as Lovie, as we should all know, is really only good at doing one thing. And while Fox didn't get the SB win with Manning, he at least got there and was in the playoffs pretty much every year he was in Denver, including a year he didn't have Manning.


Steve Smith is a bona fide game changer. He made and extended plays like nobody else. I'm too lazy to look, but if someone has time, look at the game reports and adjust the .570 by dividing Smith's direct contribution to the score by 50% (to be conservative). Tell us how does that .570 look. Hell, do the same with Manning's contributions in Denver.

_________________
"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:33 pm
Posts: 16485
Location: Chicago, Illinois
pizza_Place: Salernos, Oak Park
Peoria Matt wrote:
From Biggsy's column:

Brace yourselves, Bears players.

If the past is an indicator of gut-check introductions to come, new coach John Fox is going to deliver unvarnished reality.

Former Panthers defensive tackle Brentson Buckner remembers Fox walking into his first team meeting after taking over after a 1-15 season that got most of the building cleaned out.

"He said, 'You were 1-15 and they got rid of all the coaches,' " Buckner recalled. " 'None of those coaches played. None of those coaches dressed on Sunday. A lot of reasons you were 1-15 are sitting in this room, and it's my job to weed you out.'


This is exsctly what this team needs and has been lacking for the last few years.

BEARSSS!!!

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:48 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:55 pm
Posts: 27563
pizza_Place: Zaffiro's
NME wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Why do you believe Fox is anything other than a slightly better version of Lovie Smith (if that)? Prior to this season, Smith's career winning pct. was .565; Fox's career winning pct. is 570. It could be reasonably argued that Smith has coached less talented teams than Fox has.





How so? Defensively both had talent, so that washes out. Outside of Steve Smith, what elite talent did the Panthers ever have on offense?

Fox won't struggle to find coordinators and isn't afraid to hire ones that could bolt for HC jobs. Fox has also been more adaptable over the years to fit the talent on the teams he coaches where as Lovie, as we should all know, is really only good at doing one thing. And while Fox didn't get the SB win with Manning, he at least got there and was in the playoffs pretty much every year he was in Denver, including a year he didn't have Manning.


Fox coached one of the most talented offensive teams in the NFL for the past four years. He also had some pretty good talent on offense in Carolina. Fox is Lovie 2.0.

_________________
Antonio Gramsci wrote:
The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:50 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:55 pm
Posts: 27563
pizza_Place: Zaffiro's
Scorehead wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
If ever there was a time to be optimistic as Bears fan, it is now. The Bears finally went out and hired a real experienced & professional head coach. No more experimental peter principle guys. Fox will be loved by fans in Chicago.

BEARS!!!


Why do you believe Fox is anything other than a slightly better version of Lovie Smith (if that)? Prior to this season, Smith's career winning pct. was .565; Fox's career winning pct. is 570. It could be reasonably argued that Smith has coached less talented teams than Fox has.


Fox has guys. He will have no trouble finding an offensive & defensive coordinator. Lovie had trouble filling these positions for 9 years.

You wont be able to use the winning % argument after another year or 2 of Lovie working his magic in Tampa Bay. His winning % is in rapid decline


Yeah, well, two years ago you were calling Trestman and Emery your "guys" and predicting great success for them, too. Your predictions of future greatness for the Bears seem to lack objectivity.

_________________
Antonio Gramsci wrote:
The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:53 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 76695
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
TM you are wrong. Lovie like pretty much every coach is the NFL has a system that they believe in and like to run. Fox allows his coordinators to run the system they like. He's only as good as his coordinator will allow him to be.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm
Posts: 55711
Nas wrote:
TM you are wrong. Lovie like pretty much every coach is the NFL has a system that they believe in and like to run. Fox allows his coordinators to run the system they like. He's only as good as his coordinator will allow him to be.

Why is this such a bad thing?

Not having a specific system that you attempt to work through would seem to be a possible plus. You can then draft and prepare your team based on the talent and strengths you have instead of trying to force fit everything into your system.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."


Frank Coztansa wrote:
I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:00 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 76695
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
RFDC wrote:
Nas wrote:
TM you are wrong. Lovie like pretty much every coach is the NFL has a system that they believe in and like to run. Fox allows his coordinators to run the system they like. He's only as good as his coordinator will allow him to be.

Why is this such a bad thing?

Not having a specific system that you attempt to work through would seem to be a possible plus. You can then draft and prepare your team based on the talent and strengths you have instead of trying to force fit everything into your system.


He doesn't have a system but his coordinators will. They will run their system. That means they will draft players that fit the system of the coordinators. Most people hire a coach because of the system they've run and the success that system has had.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:08 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:55 pm
Posts: 27563
pizza_Place: Zaffiro's
Nas wrote:
TM you are wrong. Lovie like pretty much every coach is the NFL has a system that they believe in and like to run. Fox allows his coordinators to run the system they like. He's only as good as his coordinator will allow him to be.



I was making the Fox-Lovie comparison to emphasize the fact that the hysteria over Fox is hyperbolic given that he has achieved a similar winning percentage to Lovie, yet most fans were dissatisfied with his coaching.

Nevertheless, I do think there are several philosophical similarities between Fox and Smith.

_________________
Antonio Gramsci wrote:
The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:33 pm
Posts: 16485
Location: Chicago, Illinois
pizza_Place: Salernos, Oak Park
Tall Midget wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
If ever there was a time to be optimistic as Bears fan, it is now. The Bears finally went out and hired a real experienced & professional head coach. No more experimental peter principle guys. Fox will be loved by fans in Chicago.
BEARS!!!

Why do you believe Fox is anything other than a slightly better version of Lovie Smith (if that)? Prior to this season, Smith's career winning pct. was .565; Fox's career winning pct. is 570. It could be reasonably argued that Smith has coached less talented teams than Fox has.

Fox has guys. He will have no trouble finding an offensive & defensive coordinator. Lovie had trouble filling these positions for 9 years.
You wont be able to use the winning % argument after another year or 2 of Lovie working his magic in Tampa Bay. His winning % is in rapid decline

Yeah, well, two years ago you were calling Trestman and Emery your "guys" and predicting great success for them, too. Your predictions of future greatness for the Bears seem to lack objectivity.


Well, if anyone could predict fhe future accuratly, that would certainly be something.

I was hopeful for Trestman. Fox has already proven himself.

Who should the Bears have hired?

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 4510
Location: What buisness is it of yours, where I'm from
pizza_Place: Tombstone
Tall Midget wrote:
NME wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Why do you believe Fox is anything other than a slightly better version of Lovie Smith (if that)? Prior to this season, Smith's career winning pct. was .565; Fox's career winning pct. is 570. It could be reasonably argued that Smith has coached less talented teams than Fox has.





How so? Defensively both had talent, so that washes out. Outside of Steve Smith, what elite talent did the Panthers ever have on offense?

Fox won't struggle to find coordinators and isn't afraid to hire ones that could bolt for HC jobs. Fox has also been more adaptable over the years to fit the talent on the teams he coaches where as Lovie, as we should all know, is really only good at doing one thing. And while Fox didn't get the SB win with Manning, he at least got there and was in the playoffs pretty much every year he was in Denver, including a year he didn't have Manning.


Fox coached one of the most talented offensive teams in the NFL for the past four years. He also had some pretty good talent on offense in Carolina. Fox is Lovie 2.0.




I thought we were only including their comparative years of Carolina and Chicago.


If we're going to give him credit for coaching that talent in Denver then he also gets credit for going to the playoffs pretty much every year with a Super Bowl appearance.

In other words, his stay in Denver was a very successful one, there isn't much of anything negative to say about it even with the SB loss.

As for Steve Smith being a game changer, sure, but after him offensively the Panthers were not elite. On the flip side Lovie coached teams had talent too offensively in guys like Matt Forte (a game changer), Thomas Jones, Greg Olson, a HoF worthy kick returner in Hester (not offense technically, but still) as well as a game changing elite talent QB in Cutler that Lovie could never really find the right guy to coach up. I'll at least concede that including Cutler in this could go either way -but he does at least represent elite talent, realized or not.

Besides all that, outside of them both being based around defense as coaches I don't think their coaching style is all that similar.

_________________
If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Fox
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
all this bickering really shows that a coach is only as good as his players.


Players matter but the elite coaches will find a way to be good. Fox is an average coach though. Obviously that's an upgrade over Trestman and Tucker but normally you need more to win.


I don't think he is elite but his production is already beyond average.

I am normally one who advocates for taking a shot at great rather than settling for the known good. I don't think that was the best course of action for the Bears at this time. Unlike others, I think they have the offensive horses to be competitive today. They lacked direction. This hire should change that condition.

I am much more bullish on the Bears for next year than the general public.

If I am wrong, well, everything will be easily disassembled in another couple of years.

Nas gets this ome

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 281 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group