No worries about that. Juice and BR are at the top of their games. Impressive work by both.

Any person could perform an abortion a mere second before delivery. And that person would be committing murder. I think the law is as clear as day, and I doubt any legit doctor would ever risk jail time to just perform an abortion at 30 weeks at the mere desire of the woman. In fact, don't we often accuse doctors of performing defensive medicine and ordering too many tests to simply avoid legal liability questioning their judgment? Why would it be any different with this procedure?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Because Obama

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Because Trump. I can't even believe the shit we're arguing about now. But I recognized it for what it was right away.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

This may be slightly off the current discussion but what about the docs that previously were the performers of partial birth abortion? I mean there must be some docs that fought very hard to retain that right to perform those. Now that they are banned does it not stand to reason some on the fringes would still do very late abortions in that manner?

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

PM, they just make sure the expectant mother is properly anchored to the 8th floor balcony. That way, she can drop the fetus/baby straight down and let gravity do all the work. You take a class on tying good knots, and you're all set.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Good points. As I said it was tangential but I figured there had to be a handful of zealots in the entire nation to do illegal procedures.

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

I'm sure there are.

The point I was focusing on was that it is not legal to do so.

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No. Why would they risk losing their license or jail? They had plenty of skills that would still be legal.

As I said, OBs are getting questioned or even in trouble for doing too many C-sections. If there was a doctor with a huge amount of late term abortions he would be under constant investigation.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianna_Beretta_Molla

Not a chiropractor though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

As I said it is extremely rare I am sure but zealots are zealots.

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

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I'm pretty sure that the partial birth abortion bans are unenforceable. I'll wait for Juice to give us his interpretations of the Carhart decisions.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

Why aren't they enforceable?

Unless you want doctors to watch the mother and child die rather than intervene then you'll see them as needed in very rare circumstances even if you banned abortion completely.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They've been struck down in many states.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

For a very good reason as I mentioned.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think folks are picking the wrong battles here. Abortion at any stage should be 100% illegal unless absolutely needed to save the mother's life or in cases of rape. Bickering about viability, stress, and how many weeks pregnant is missing the point, imo.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Viability is a major point.

Why is there no case that the mother also has the right to control her own body especially very early on?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's a bad talking point. None of us have complete control of our own bodies. Many things are regulated regarding what we can and cannot do with it.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

50 pages

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That's not a very Libertarian point of view.

I'll remember that the next time you complain about our drug laws though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I bet she'd make a good one.

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Huh? Im stating a fact, not a point of view, in that post.

But you would be wrong if you think being against abortion is antithetical to libertarianism. It's very much in line with it.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I honestly don't know the official stance on abortion of Libertarians. However, I am sure that "the government has the right to regulate what you can and can't do with your body" would make a real Libertarian quite concerned.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Again, I wasn't stating a point of view. It's a fact that our current government already regulates our bodies. That's why it is disingenuous to use that as a pro-abortion argument. That's all.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Would you say the same thing about our drug laws then?

But, let's go with it. The government says some types of abortion are ok. Why aren't you cool with that? Even the government has decided that a woman should have control over her own body for a portion of pregnancy.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

And the government made a poor decision in that regard.

Being pregnant isn't really analogous to anything else like drug laws. Once you become pregnant you have a responsibility, imo, to do your best to keep that baby healthy until it is born. It's the same reason parents have more legal responsibilities than single people.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No, she wouldn't.

She is dead. She chose to give up her life so that her baby could live.

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You're getting more reasonable. I understand completely that you think all abortion should be illegal outside of the extreme edge cases. The problem is you aren't even willing to acknowledge that a case can be made that early on in pregnancy a woman should still have a right to decide what to do with her body.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Does having sex demonstrate an intent to cause pregnancy? Can people ever have sex with pregnancy being a bona fide unintended result?