You are. You are speaking authoritatively about a subject which you clearly know very little. To refer to children on the autism spectrum as "walking vegetables" is about as stupid as something one can say.

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And what about the neurologist cited above calling his own daughter a zombie??

Is he a fucking idiot too?

To be fair, that guy has a Ph.D and an MD, he probably regards Ken Jennings as a short-bus rider.

Speaking of Ken Jennings, is the latest Jeopardy champ still winning? I guess I can google.

That is one specific case, and you have chosen to paint with an extremely broad brush. The autism spectrum is very broad, and to suggest that kids on the autism spectrum are "walking vegetables" is ignorant. You don't have the slightest clue about what you are saying.

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Waiting for the time when I can finally say
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Arthur Chu lost, after a ten day run as champion.

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Waiting for the time when I can finally say
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My niece is autistic and she lives in her own world sadly.

Not sure what term would adequately describe people in that state...??

Again, you are talking about one specific case. You obviously don't understand.

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Waiting for the time when I can finally say
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It's supposed to be around 1 in 38 in South Korea, though that might be because it's a culture where your mom smacks you for making eye contact.

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Yeah, I have no dog in the vaccination fight, but I can say without question that that was an idiotic statement. My wife works with kids with autism fir a living, and I've met a lot of them. A lot of them are fun-loving kids with minor social problems.

That is a small sample size, but I guess it's better than your sample size of one which you read about in an article and then used to categorize an entire group.

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http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... ekey=87686

Dad in Autism-Vaccine Case Speaks Out

Jon Poling, Father of Hannah, Explains He's Not 'Anti-Vaccine'

By Kathleen Doheny
WebMD Health News

Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD

March 6, 2008 — Neurologist Jon Poling, MD, PhD, is not surprised that the federal government decided to grant compensation from a federal vaccine injury fund because his daughter Hannah, now 9, had developed autism-like symptoms after receiving childhood vaccines.

He knew the case was a good one.

An experience like that might understandably turn any parent — even a doctor — against childhood vaccines at all costs. Surprisingly, it has not, Poling tells WebMD.

"I don't think the case should scare people," says Poling, 37, who emphasizes that vaccines, like all of medicine, carry risks and benefits.

In deciding the case, which has sparked anew the vaccine-autism debate, the federal government has not said that childhood vaccines cause autism. Rather, federal officials conclude the vaccines, given to Hannah in 2000, aggravated a pre-existing condition that then manifested as autism-like symptoms.

The pre-existing condition was a disorder of the mitochondria, the "power sources" of the cell, according to Poling.
Court vs. Science

Proving the link legally is quite different than proving it scientifically, Poling says. "When you are talking about the courtroom vs. science, the burden of proof is different," Poling tells WebMD.

"We showed there was a plausible mechanism, we showed that an injury occurred shortly after her vaccination. Her growth curve went flat for months."

To prove something scientifically, rather than legally, he points out, only a 5% possibility (or one in 20 chance) that something happens by chance is allowable.
Decision Made, Questions Remain

In the wake of the decision, Poling, like other experts, says many questions remain about autism, vaccines, and mitochondrial disorders. "This mitochondrial issue, is it rare? Is it inherited?" he asks.

Poling says that Hannah's doctor in Atlanta, John Shoffner, MD, who was also a co-author on a scientific paper Poling wrote about the disorder and its link with autism, "has a number of cases of children who have mitochondrial disorder and autism. But he is not sure that the one causes the other or vice versa."

Even so, Poling says, "I don't think Hannah's case is as unique as many experts believe."
Poling Not Anti-Vaccine

The experience with Hannah, Poling says, has not turned him against vaccines. "I want to make it clear I am not anti-vaccine," he says. "Vaccines are one of the most important, if not the most important advance, in medicine in at least the past 100 years. But I don't think that vaccines should enjoy a sacred cow status, where if you attack them you are out of mainline medicine."

"Every treatment has a risk and a benefit. To say there are no risks to any treatment is not true.''

"Sometimes people are injured by a vaccine, but they are safe for the majority of people. I could say that with a clean conscience. But I couldn't say that vaccines are absolutely safe, that they are not linked to brain injury and they are not linked to autism."

Poling is hopeful that the decision will trigger government action. "I hope it will force government agencies to look further into what susceptibility factors are out there for children to develop brain injury after vaccination, to look into the susceptibility factors of people at risk."
Vaccine Safety: What Can Parents Do?

His advice for parents?

Poling says they should demand to know a vaccine's safety record before agreeing to give it to their child, including any known links with metabolic disorders and susceptibility to injury from the vaccine.
Coming to Terms With Autism

Although Poling has an MD and a PhD and is trained as a neurologist, he admits it was very difficult to come to terms with his daughter's diagnosis. In his neurology practice in Georgia, some of his patients are children with autism, so he is very familiar with the condition. His wife, Terry, is both a nurse and an attorney.

Even so, he says, they had some trouble initially getting doctors to take their concerns seriously. When Hannah exhibited symptoms after a series of five immunizations including nine vaccines, doctors initially passed them off as nothing serious. But as the symptoms didn't abate and in fact got worse, as parents, the Polings knew something was wrong.

"After six months of essentially our daughter being a zombie and gone, we knew this wasn't going away," he says. "This was chronic. And we had to come to grips with that."

In the beginning, it wasn't easy, he says. "We had denial," he admits. She had previously been treated for middle ear infections. "When Hannah got sick, we thought, 'Her ears are clogged. That is why she is not responding.'"

As he heard from other parents dealing with the same diagnosis, the initial denial, followed by difficulty in accepting the reality, was a common thread, Poling found.

SOURCES: Jon Poling, MD, PhD, neurologist, Athens, Ga.

© 2008 WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.

What does that article have to do with your claim that all children on the autism spectrum are "walking vegetables"?

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Waiting for the time when I can finally say
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Wonder if they gamed him at all, maybe going with categories that played to his weakness? Ken Jennings said that they actually switched up the human who hits a button to "release" the contestants' buzzers to allow them to buzz-in to answer (on the last syllable of the clue) half-way through his reign, in an attempt to throw him off his game.

My angle was that peditricians are throwing inhalers at kids that may not really need them. They may have other issues or just be fat and out of shape and not have "sports asthma". Idk, I don't judge it is what it is now.

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Implicit is the acknowledgement that there are varying degrees of autism. Do you deny that people with mild to sever cases due in fact live in there own world and find it virtually impossible to interact with others, even there parents?

For her or maybe my developmentally disabled nephew (used to be retarded) I just go with special. He is my special nephew. Much like Mac talks about with his son. People of some afflictions give a great deal to the world if it is only teaching us perspective and unconditional love.

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

The whole Arthur Chu controversy was overblown. You have no obligation to play out the string of a category if it's not one you really want to go through. I think people were just mad because he's a fat Asian. It took handsome white guy Ken Jennings five times as many wins to annoy people.

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I don't see why they would sabotage a dominant champion. Jeopardy! got a lot of publicity when Jennings was on his run. Alex seemed to get a kick out of Chu's dominance.

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Waiting for the time when I can finally say
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Why does she need a term?

My nephew hums to himself all day. He is the most loving person.

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Of course, kids with severe cases have difficulty interacting with others, including THEIR parents, but what does that have to do with you saying that all kids on the autism spectrum are "walking vegetables"?

Just admit that you said something stupid.

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Waiting for the time when I can finally say
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This from an NPR piece titled "‘Jeopardy Villain’ Explains How He Keeps Winning"



Ken Jennings was no villain. We don't like it when our nerds look like nerds, you know, sort of like how our favorite black women look like white women.

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Agree. And if I had to coin a phrase, vegetable probably wouldn't make the cut.

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http://youtu.be/yThpwF2BX-Q

Yeah, Jennings admitted to sometimes resorting to gaming the board if he thought the other contestants might present more of a challenge than the usual cardboard-cutouts they threw up there against him.

This is true and well said.

However, I think the point is that it's weird how kids are progressing normally and then all of a sudden these symptoms start happening and the kids never really recover. Yea you can say (very PC like) that they become "special" but when it's your kid, coming to that realization is not exactly easy and extremely hard to accept.

Having a normal kid then at age 5 they can't communicate and actually start regressing is about as hard as it gets for a parent.

Just very sad. And to think it's 1 in 88 kids and I don't see alot of substantive research suggesting possible causes after all this time is unfortunate to say the least.

I have no desire to go through all my posts to see if I did in fact say "all kids" but if in fact I said that then yes, that is not the case. It is the case however, that kids that live in their own worlds (i.e. severe cases) are basically what society (and that neurologist) calls a zombie like state.

Why does this board always go to the lowest common denominator with this ad hominem bullshit??

Anyway, I am bored with this. 1 in 88 is likely somehow overstated without me being able to see the exact breakdown. As I said they may be counting my daughter and she clearly has no aspect of autism but as she was at one point thought to have it and her age she is in the stats.

So not to minimize again anyone's plight or fears but there appears to be many unknown factors to the autism explosion. I seriously doubt it is all vaccines but perhaps it is one or as was mentioned a bundle? Maybe it is coincidence as well and other factors mentioned are more responsible?

Either way to go Bernstein and simply go ape shit PSU on parents asking questions or doing what they seem correct for THEIR kids is absolutely wrong for a radio show.

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

You said:


which would seem to indicate that anyone diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder (the 1 in 88) is "basically" a "walking vegetable," when there are in fact high-functioning people with autism who are anything but vegetables and live very much in the same world that you do.

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Those interested in making a donation to a worthy cause in the fight to find a cure for autism may do so here:

http://www.autismspeaks.org/

You have no desire to go through your posts, because that would require you to own up to your stupid comments, instead of trying to change the subject, as you have done when confronted.




Nobody is arguing that life isn't difficult for kids who are severely affected by autism. You paint with a broad brush, as if every kid on the autism spectrum has the same developmental issues.



You are the lowest common denominator with your labeling, and painting with a broad brush that would make Elmhurst Steve and Chas proud.

I am a parent of a child on the autism spectrum. He is the sweetest, happiest, smartest, most loving little boy that anybody could ever wish to raise, and I wouldn't trade him for any other kid. Your ridiculous opinions are ignorant, and uninformed.

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<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Time to move on people.

http://www.autism-society.org is more concerned with helping the people and families themselves and less concerned with windmill-tilting, for those inclined to assist in that manner. Think of it as the difference between hurricane relief and research toward eliminating hurricanes.

disclosure: I've worked w/ASA

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