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SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University
http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=92731
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Author:  Darkside [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Also, Steve, why were those SF cops placed on leave and some fired for private racist texts?

Author:  badrogue17 [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

First Steve is NU president now he's Hootie Johnson. Big day.

Author:  Brick [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Hatchetman wrote:
NU President had an op-ed in the WSJ today about this. Said you have to be real careful infringing on free speech as the law will generally not be in your favor.
Just to tie this up, the bold part was not said.

Author:  Furious Styles [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

badrogue17 wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
NU President had an op-ed in the WSJ today about this. Said you have to be real careful infringing on free speech as the law will generally not be in your favor.

Isn't that what Steve just said?


are you suggesting steve is actually the president of NU? :lol:

Well he did move to the North Shore.

That's a pretty great exchange right there. :lol:

Author:  Darkside [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
NU President had an op-ed in the WSJ today about this. Said you have to be real careful infringing on free speech as the law will generally not be in your favor.
Just to tie this up, the bold part was not said.

So just as I understand this, please confirm for me a couple key points as I understand it.

Point 1: The Speech appears to be protected by the 1st Amendment, and thus not subject to criminal charges
Point 2: Though protected speech, conduct that falls outside of the guidelines may be punishable, up to and including expulsion.
Point 3: Steve is a dope.

Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

badrogue17 wrote:

Freedom of speech doesn’t amount to much unless it is tested. And if the First Amendment doesn’t matter on college campuses, where self-expression is so deeply valued, why expect it to matter elsewhere?

A decade or so ago, I returned from Shabbat services at my synagogue to learn that a student had hung posters mocking the Holocaust Remembrance Day posters distributed in the dorms. The message had been turned into a celebration of Hitler’s birthday; the picture of concentration camp victims had for some reason been replaced by a marijuana leaf. It is hard to imagine a more disgusting display.

But here is the question we asked: Did the student hang those posters randomly, or instead single out the rooms of members of groups targeted by the Nazis such as Jews, blacks and gays? If it had been the latter, it might have constituted verbal assault. But it was the former, and in our view that was protected free speech. This wasn’t an easy decision, or perhaps the most expedient, but it was the right one.

[/i]


I agree with this obviously. The Nazi reign was filled with terror for many and reminders of that era and support of their agenda would have to be offensive to millions. But the right of free speech protects those wishing to support it. Just as the right for University students to join a frat where there are no minorities and sing a rap song that is offensive to many is also protected, no matter how repugnant it may seem. There will almost certainly be a lawsuit filed. The University may lose millions. But they did placate the masses who were offended.

Author:  Brick [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
NU President had an op-ed in the WSJ today about this. Said you have to be real careful infringing on free speech as the law will generally not be in your favor.
Just to tie this up, the bold part was not said.

So just as I understand this, please confirm for me a couple key points as I understand it.

Point 1: The Speech appears to be protected by the 1st Amendment, and thus not subject to criminal charges
Point 2: Though protected speech, conduct that falls outside of the guidelines may be punishable, up to and including expulsion.
Point 3: Steve is a dope.
Accurate.

"freedom of speech" would be better said to be "freedom of speech from government intervention".

Author:  Brick [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Just as the right for University students to join a frat where there are no minorities and sing a rap song that is offensive to many is also protected, no matter how repugnant it may seem.
Once again, this is not true.

There may be a lawsuit, but it would have more to do with the actual code of conduct rather than the Constitution protecting them.

Author:  Regular Reader [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Just as the right for University students to join a frat where there are no minorities and sing a rap song that is offensive to many is also protected, no matter how repugnant it may seem. There will almost certainly be a lawsuit filed.


Steve, since you often seem to be one to have a discussion of rights vs. privileges :wink: I have one question, given your history. Given your history, your stand here seems incongruous. Where is the "right" (as opposed to the not automatically granted "privilege") under the Constitution you seem confident this group of less enlightened individuals has?

Isn't it (as you often suggest when the shoe is on the other foot) more of a privilege to be earned here? And since it is more of a privilege, isn't the Constitutional discussion a bit unwarranted here?

Author:  Hatchetman [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

bullshit if he didn't opine that the constitution overruled a "code of conduct."

Morty wrote:

most of us have access to high-powered legal advisers. Sometimes state and federal laws are clear enough to make the decision, but usually they are not. I have learned over 15 years in this job at two institutions that you better have a compelling reason to punish anyone—student, faculty member, staff member—for expressing his or her views, regardless of how repugnant you might find those views.

if the First Amendment doesn’t matter on college campuses, why expect it to matter elsewhere?

A decade or so ago, I returned from Shabbat services at my synagogue to learn that a student had hung posters mocking the Holocaust Remembrance Day posters distributed in the dorms. . It is hard to imagine a more disgusting display.
in our view that was protected free speech. This wasn’t an easy decision, or perhaps the most expedient, but it was the right one.

Yet any time your actions supersede a defining national tenet such as free speech, you better be sure you are making the right call. .

Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Darkside wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Darkside wrote:
When I went to University, we had a student handbook. I'm sure there is one at OU. Now, I don't remember the specifics, but even back then there was a policy on this type of thing. You certainly could be disciplined for saying the kinds of things these kids said/did.

I imagine that any cop on the beat would get fired for suggesting that [redacted] should be hanged. Or say, a McDonalds worker as well. I'm not the constitutional scholar that Steve is but I don't believe those would be violations of the 1st Amendment.

Although certain language may be permitted legally, as in no criminal charges could be filed for such utterances, I am certain that there are consequences for behavior that would fall outside of typical code of conduct policies.


if a cop is "on the beat", he is in public. Apples to oranges comparison, same with a McDonalds worker.

Oh and I seem to remember you having gone to community college and not even graduating with an associates degree. So when you mention going to "University", it's pretty laughable. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I went to Eastern Illinois University you dope.

Where are you with regard to the policies of certain golf courses that do not allow Women or peoples of certain ethnic backgrounds?


Okay, so you "went" to EIU. Didn't graduate though....

As far as golf courses (known as private clubs) are concerned- you join based not only on the course location and quality, but the make-up of the club members. For those who join Butler national in Oakbrook or Augusta National in Augusta, Georgia they join knowing the make-up of the membership and probably liking it that way. I have absolutely no problem with it. People should be free to socialize and recreate with others they enjoy the company of. The Western Open was played for years at Butler National, but they tried to pressure them to allow female members into the club because of pressure from sponsors. Butler refused to alter their membership policies, so the Open moved to Cog Hill. Some might say that Butler blew it, because they lost the Western Open. But the MEMBERS voted to maintain their membership policies, so for them, it was the right decision.

Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Regular Reader wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Just as the right for University students to join a frat where there are no minorities and sing a rap song that is offensive to many is also protected, no matter how repugnant it may seem. There will almost certainly be a lawsuit filed.


Steve, since you often seem to be one to have a discussion of rights vs. privileges :wink: I have one question, given your history. Given your history, your stand here seems incongruous. Where is the "right" (as opposed to the not automatically granted "privilege") under the Constitution you seem confident this group of less enlightened individuals has?

Isn't it (as you often suggest when the shoe is on the other foot) more of a privilege to be earned here? And since it is more of a privilege, isn't the Constitutional discussion a bit unwarranted here?



I have never said that any group should be denied the right to free speech and this group should not be denied that right either.

Author:  Darkside [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

I have never said that any group should be denied the right to free speech and this group should not be denied that right either.

THEY AREN'T BEING DENIED THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH

Author:  Scooter [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Todays portion of this thread is outstanding. :lol:

Author:  conns7901 [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Darkside wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:

I have never said that any group should be denied the right to free speech and this group should not be denied that right either.

THEY AREN'T BEING DENIED THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH


Steve needs to learn what the right to free speech means in the constitution.

Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Darkside wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:

I have never said that any group should be denied the right to free speech and this group should not be denied that right either.

THEY AREN'T BEING DENIED THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH



Being expelled for practicing one's right to free speech infringes upon that right.

Author:  Scooter [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:

I have never said that any group should be denied the right to free speech and this group should not be denied that right either.

THEY AREN'T BEING DENIED THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH



Being expelled for practicing one's right to free speech infringes upon that right.

Oh good lord. :lol:

Author:  Douchebag [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:

I have never said that any group should be denied the right to free speech and this group should not be denied that right either.

THEY AREN'T BEING DENIED THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH



Being expelled for practicing one's right to free speech infringes upon that right.

No it isn't. These students still have the right to walk down the street and say N***** as many times as they want.

Author:  Bagels [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:

I have never said that any group should be denied the right to free speech and this group should not be denied that right either.

THEY AREN'T BEING DENIED THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH



Being expelled for practicing one's right to free speech infringes upon that right.


I've had a lot of experience with semantics, so don't try to lure me into some maze of circular logic

Author:  Hockey Gay [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Boss: I need to talk to you for a minute.

Me: FUCK YOU, YOU BLACK Caller Bob!

Boss: What the fuck? You're fired!

Me: See you in court! I have freedom of speech!

Author:  Brick [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Hatchetman wrote:
bullshit if he didn't opine that the constitution overruled a "code of conduct."

Morty wrote:

most of us have access to high-powered legal advisers. Sometimes state and federal laws are clear enough to make the decision, but usually they are not. I have learned over 15 years in this job at two institutions that you better have a compelling reason to punish anyone—student, faculty member, staff member—for expressing his or her views, regardless of how repugnant you might find those views.

if the First Amendment doesn’t matter on college campuses, why expect it to matter elsewhere?

A decade or so ago, I returned from Shabbat services at my synagogue to learn that a student had hung posters mocking the Holocaust Remembrance Day posters distributed in the dorms. . It is hard to imagine a more disgusting display.
in our view that was protected free speech. This wasn’t an easy decision, or perhaps the most expedient, but it was the right one.

Yet any time your actions supersede a defining national tenet such as free speech, you better be sure you are making the right call. .
I don't think he was saying it was legally correct though. He is talking about the concept and make loose but unexplained mentions of legal issues.

You'd think if he truly thought that this violated their constitutional rights he'd say so.

Author:  spanky [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Darkside wrote:
I went to Eastern Illinois University you dope. I've talked about it countless times on this boards, even went at the same time as a couple board guys (I think I missed Don Tiny by a couple years)

Darko went to EIU the exact same years my wife did.



He even hung out with some of the exact same people in the same places as my wife at the time, although they allegedly did not know each other back then.
You can imagine the potential nightmare scenarios in my brain that are waiting to be uncovered........ :lol: :silent: :drunken:

Author:  SomeGuy [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

spanky wrote:
Darkside wrote:
I went to Eastern Illinois University you dope. I've talked about it countless times on this boards, even went at the same time as a couple board guys (I think I missed Don Tiny by a couple years)

Darko went to EIU the exact same years my wife did.



He even hung out with some of the exact same people in the same places as my wife at the time, although they allegedly did not know each other back then.
You can imagine the potential nightmare scenarios in my brain that are waiting to be uncovered........ :lol: :silent: :drunken:


SomeGuy went to EIU!

SomeGuy was BMOC

Author:  good dolphin [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

spanky wrote:
Darkside wrote:
I went to Eastern Illinois University you dope. I've talked about it countless times on this boards, even went at the same time as a couple board guys (I think I missed Don Tiny by a couple years)

Darko went to EIU the exact same years my wife did.



He even hung out with some of the exact same people in the same places as my wife at the time, although they allegedly did not know each other back then.
You can imagine the potential nightmare scenarios in my brain that are waiting to be uncovered........ :lol: :silent: :drunken:


Imagine? Darkside has it on film.

Did your wife get that mole removed?

Author:  Darkside [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

spanky wrote:
Darkside wrote:
I went to Eastern Illinois University you dope. I've talked about it countless times on this boards, even went at the same time as a couple board guys (I think I missed Don Tiny by a couple years)

Darko went to EIU the exact same years my wife did.



He even hung out with some of the exact same people in the same places as my wife at the time, although they allegedly did not know each other back then.
You can imagine the potential nightmare scenarios in my brain that are waiting to be uncovered........ :lol: :silent: :drunken:

:lol:
Yeah, WOO Sig Nu 1515 9th street parties! $3 cups $1 bottles or Rolling Rock and Scooby at the bar! :lol: :lol:

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Hockey Gay wrote:
Boss: I need to talk to you for a minute.

Me: FUCK YOU, YOU BLACK Caller Bob!

Boss: What the fuck? You're fired!

Me: See you in court! I have freedom of speech!

No matter how much you dont like Steve, posting direct quotes from off the board is over the line, imo

Author:  spanky [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

good dolphin wrote:
spanky wrote:
Darkside wrote:
I went to Eastern Illinois University you dope. I've talked about it countless times on this boards, even went at the same time as a couple board guys (I think I missed Don Tiny by a couple years)

Darko went to EIU the exact same years my wife did.



He even hung out with some of the exact same people in the same places as my wife at the time, although they allegedly did not know each other back then.
You can imagine the potential nightmare scenarios in my brain that are waiting to be uncovered........ :lol: :silent: :drunken:


Imagine? Darkside has it on film.

Did your wife get that mole removed?

Ask Darkside

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

spanky wrote:
Darkside wrote:
I went to Eastern Illinois University you dope. I've talked about it countless times on this boards, even went at the same time as a couple board guys (I think I missed Don Tiny by a couple years)

Darko went to EIU the exact same years my wife did.



He even hung out with some of the exact same people in the same places as my wife at the time, although they allegedly did not know each other back then.
You can imagine the potential nightmare scenarios in my brain that are waiting to be uncovered........ :lol: :silent: :drunken:

Wow. He also hung out with my daughter's Uncle. Sounds like DS was BMOC

Author:  pittmike [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
NU President had an op-ed in the WSJ today about this. Said you have to be real careful infringing on free speech as the law will generally not be in your favor.
Just to tie this up, the bold part was not said.



Well there weren't quotation marks.

Author:  SomeGuy [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SAE Fraternity of Oklahoma University

rogers park bryan wrote:
Hockey Gay wrote:
Boss: I need to talk to you for a minute.

Me: FUCK YOU, YOU BLACK Caller Bob!

Boss: What the fuck? You're fired!

Me: See you in court! I have freedom of speech!

No matter how much you dont like Steve, posting direct quotes from off the board is over the line, imo


After your thoughts on KI I think the board should be wary of your opinion on all manner of things.

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